Re building a wheel, but my spokes are too long.
01-22-19, 06:51 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Re building a wheel, but my spokes are too long.
I am trying to teach myself wheel building and I was practicing on an old wheel I have. I took the wheel apart and put it back together but the spokes were too long, I tried again following the directions on Sheldon brown carefully but the spokes are still too long. The front wheel of the bike is a 36 spoke 3 cross wheel. The rear wheel is 36 spokes and I think it is 3 cross but I may be wrong. When I tried to lace it 4 cross the spokes were much too short. Any ideas?
the wheel is a weinmann 519 36 hole 26in, the bike is a 1999 specialized hard rock FS
the wheel is a weinmann 519 36 hole 26in, the bike is a 1999 specialized hard rock FS
01-22-19, 07:15 PM
#2
Really Old Senior Member
Did you get the spokes mixed up?
Front spokes are the same length.
Rear DS will be 1-2 mm shorter than the NDS spoke.
Front will be about 2mm longer than rear DS.
Front spokes are the same length.
Rear DS will be 1-2 mm shorter than the NDS spoke.
Front will be about 2mm longer than rear DS.
01-22-19, 07:23 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,095
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4210 Post(s)
Liked 3,875 Times
in
2,315 Posts
01-22-19, 08:16 PM
#4
Really Old Senior Member
01-23-19, 08:07 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
I'm betting that only half of the spokes are too long.
It's fairly common to get the cross pattern right on both sides but to have the two sides off by one spoke hole. When that happens you'll get a pattern going around the rim of 2 long spokes followed by 2 short spokes. Don't ask me how I know, but I've seen it happen more than just once. If that's the case, you'll have to unlace and redo at lease one of the flanges.
"Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement." Mark Twain. one of my favorite Missourians.
It's fairly common to get the cross pattern right on both sides but to have the two sides off by one spoke hole. When that happens you'll get a pattern going around the rim of 2 long spokes followed by 2 short spokes. Don't ask me how I know, but I've seen it happen more than just once. If that's the case, you'll have to unlace and redo at lease one of the flanges.
"Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement." Mark Twain. one of my favorite Missourians.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Last edited by Retro Grouch; 01-23-19 at 08:10 AM.
01-23-19, 08:16 AM
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I made sure to keep the DS and non DS separate, thought that this was the problem the sorts time so the second time I am sure they were separate
01-23-19, 08:23 AM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm betting that only half of the spokes are too long.
It's fairly common to get the cross pattern right on both sides but to have the two sides off by one spoke hole. When that happens you'll get a pattern going around the rim of 2 long spokes followed by 2 short spokes. Don't ask me how I know, but I've seen it happen more than just once. If that's the case, you'll have to unlace and redo at lease one of the flanges.
"Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement." Mark Twain. one of my favorite Missourians.
It's fairly common to get the cross pattern right on both sides but to have the two sides off by one spoke hole. When that happens you'll get a pattern going around the rim of 2 long spokes followed by 2 short spokes. Don't ask me how I know, but I've seen it happen more than just once. If that's the case, you'll have to unlace and redo at lease one of the flanges.
"Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement." Mark Twain. one of my favorite Missourians.
01-23-19, 08:57 AM
#8
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,366
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,220 Times
in
2,367 Posts
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
01-23-19, 09:39 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,095
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4210 Post(s)
Liked 3,875 Times
in
2,315 Posts
I have done the second flange spokes off by 1 hole thing more times then I should admit. I would have suggested this earlier but no mention of their being pairs of long and short spokes was made, or how long or short the spokes seemed to be. In hind sight and with more data this, one spoke hole off on second flange, seems to be the likely issue. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
01-23-19, 10:30 AM
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I have done the second flange spokes off by 1 hole thing more times then I should admit. I would have suggested this earlier but no mention of their being pairs of long and short spokes was made, or how long or short the spokes seemed to be. In hind sight and with more data this, one spoke hole off on second flange, seems to be the likely issue. Andy
01-23-19, 10:56 AM
#11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I tried moving all the spokes on the drive side to the right one hole on the hub then put them in the same holes on the rim. I still see the two long and two short spokes.
01-23-19, 11:10 AM
#12
Nigel
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,991
Bikes: 1980s and 1990s steel: CyclePro, Nishiki, Schwinn, SR, Trek........
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
6 Posts
I'm betting that only half of the spokes are too long.
It's fairly common to get the cross pattern right on both sides but to have the two sides off by one spoke hole. When that happens you'll get a pattern going around the rim of 2 long spokes followed by 2 short spokes. Don't ask me how I know, but I've seen it happen more than just once. If that's the case, you'll have to unlace and redo at lease one of the flanges.
"Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement." Mark Twain. one of my favorite Missourians.
It's fairly common to get the cross pattern right on both sides but to have the two sides off by one spoke hole. When that happens you'll get a pattern going around the rim of 2 long spokes followed by 2 short spokes. Don't ask me how I know, but I've seen it happen more than just once. If that's the case, you'll have to unlace and redo at lease one of the flanges.
"Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement." Mark Twain. one of my favorite Missourians.
01-23-19, 11:15 AM
#13
Nigel
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,991
Bikes: 1980s and 1990s steel: CyclePro, Nishiki, Schwinn, SR, Trek........
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
6 Posts
Remove all but the first 9 spokes (following Sheldon's process); redo the next 9 making sure that the go into the correct holes. with just the 18 spokes, you can twist the hub relative to the rim to make the hub be centered, and verify that all the spokes are in the correct holes in the rim. Add the 1st of the 3rd nine, and check everything for lining up, then continue if good, back up and fix if not.
01-23-19, 11:23 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,095
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4210 Post(s)
Liked 3,875 Times
in
2,315 Posts
The way I deal with this is to take apart one side, one flange's spokes. I place the wheel with the remaining laced side down, flat on my lap and work bench edge. I place the valve hole at my lap. Looking at the spoke to the right, counter clockwise, to the hole I note which way is radiates around the flange. (It "should" radiate counter clockwise as to keep the valve hole access as open as possible). I then look at the rim's next valve hole, second from the valve hole (the first has that initial spoke you looked at), and running parallel to that first spoke track which hole on the second (yet to have spokes at this point) flange matches up. remember a couple of things, the rim has, say, 36 holes. The hub also has 36 holes but distributed between two flanges. The two flanges have their holes off set from each other so when you look across the two flanges you see a near flange hole then a far flange hole then a near flange's hole and again the far flange's hole... So the hole at the rim that is one to the counter clockwise direction from the first spoke's will also be one, off set on the near flange, hole counter clockwise to that first spoke's hole on the far flange. I call this first spoke on the second flange the reference spoke. getting this spoke in the correct hub and rim holes sets up the rest of that flange's spokes. That far flange's first spoke and this near flange's first/reference spoke will run nearly parallel with each other. Sometimes I'll drop the reference spoke through it's hub hole and have it parallel to the hub barrel/axle and see which two holes it lines up with on the already laced far flange just to make sure of my understanding on the off setness of flange holes.
Once this reference spoke is determined then one can decide on whether the second flange's spokes will mirror the far flanges pattern WRT spoke heads in or out. But that's a different topic
Andy
Once this reference spoke is determined then one can decide on whether the second flange's spokes will mirror the far flanges pattern WRT spoke heads in or out. But that's a different topic
Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
01-23-19, 02:44 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Fishers, Indiana
Posts: 55
Bikes: Lynskey Backroad; Lynkey Cooper CX
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times
in
9 Posts
Just built my first wheel
I am trying to teach myself wheel building and I was practicing on an old wheel I have. I took the wheel apart and put it back together but the spokes were too long, I tried again following the directions on Sheldon brown carefully but the spokes are still too long. The front wheel of the bike is a 36 spoke 3 cross wheel. The rear wheel is 36 spokes and I think it is 3 cross but I may be wrong. When I tried to lace it 4 cross the spokes were much too short. Any ideas?
the wheel is a weinmann 519 36 hole 26in, the bike is a 1999 specialized hard rock FS
the wheel is a weinmann 519 36 hole 26in, the bike is a 1999 specialized hard rock FS
There is also a You Tube video showing him lacing a wheel.
Well worth the money for me.
Good of luck on your wheel building journey.
01-24-19, 07:42 AM
#16
On Holiday
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,014
Bikes: A bunch of old steel bikes
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 394 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times
in
12 Posts
I suspect that you may be off on the count or you may have made a mistake in the second round of spokes and placed that spoke out of place. Take the wheel apart and start over. I would suggest you follow the link in this article to Eric Hjertberg's old Bicycling magazine article. I've used it to build since it was publish and the instructions are clearer than Sheldon Browns...similar but clearer. You can ignore the first article about component selection as it is dated. But the other 3 articles are very good and have clear instructions.
Good luck
