Train for 50km a day (every single day) with a Good Racing for Crits?
01-24-19, 10:49 AM
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Train for 50km a day (every single day) with a Good Pacing for Crits?
When i visited my bike shop cause my friend's bike was broken there was a bike mechanic and a former road cyclist said to me "If you want to be good in crits, Just go flats and do 50km everyday only rest 1 day. With a race pace of course" because i was wondering in joining a crit some time this year. And he recommended me in "MOA" or Mall of Asia here in the Philippines. And it has dedicated path fpr cyclist every morning. No cars just bikes amd peleton.
My question is, Is this a good training routine for crits? 50km everysingle day? Or you guys have a better routine for crits? Btw i use a fixed gear bike
My question is, Is this a good training routine for crits? 50km everysingle day? Or you guys have a better routine for crits? Btw i use a fixed gear bike
01-24-19, 11:43 AM
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I mostly race crits, and during the core of my training season, it works out to a weekly average of 50k per day, with a day off. But I don't just go out and ride 50k as hard as I can for the whole distance. Some days are long and steady, some days are short and hard, some days are races or group rides, and some days are so easy that little old ladies with shopping bikes would drop me. To go the same distance every day at the same effort would just result in hitting a plateau of not very fast.
01-25-19, 06:43 AM
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No. I don't think it's good training for crits. Doing the same thing every day isn't good training for anything. It'll get you gains in the beginning if it's something new, but after a few weeks/months improvement will likely stop.
6 days of intensity is too much, anyway, unless it's pretty varied intensity (and in small doses like just a few sprints one day).
People that have ridden for years and have tons of miles can get away with doing less riding with more intensity, but eventually everyone has to add volume and variability if they want to be as good as they can be.
Of course, if your goal is to just go out and have fun and hang in the pack, then that plan may work well for you. But I think you'll quickly find that you get really, really tired and stop improving quickly trying to cram that much intensity in.
6 days of intensity is too much, anyway, unless it's pretty varied intensity (and in small doses like just a few sprints one day).
People that have ridden for years and have tons of miles can get away with doing less riding with more intensity, but eventually everyone has to add volume and variability if they want to be as good as they can be.
Of course, if your goal is to just go out and have fun and hang in the pack, then that plan may work well for you. But I think you'll quickly find that you get really, really tired and stop improving quickly trying to cram that much intensity in.
01-31-19, 09:53 AM
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I am with the no votes and no to fixed gear on that course even with 165 cranks. The goal of training for an event in a sport is to practice the skills and develop the strength and endurance for the event. The best training for a race is on the race course. Next is what will differentiate the athletes from one another?
In a criterium course shown, there is a right hand turn, a left hand turn and two U turns. Each turn, especially the U turns provide a chance for racers to gain position on each other and accelerate causing large disruptions in the speed of the race and require large surges of effort in ones legs. The better the racer's position going into the turns and the racer's skill executing the turn at race pace, the smoother the power flow and less generation of fatigue.
Beginner races have large surges out of every corner and U turns are a total cat f'ick. A fixed gear bike going into a U turn is going to be very sketchy cornering due to pedal strike problems and sometimes, the race in the back comes to a stop and has to restart. Having a fixed gear is a severe competitive disadvantage. If the course was a simpler 4 corner crit, then maybe fixed is okay.
IMO, the training is riding the distance at tempo power which is generally the average power one gets in a crit sitting in and doing intervals such as 30 seconds on and 30 seconds off where you put in a lot of power on the "on" segment. Secondly, the peloton determines when you have to put in the power not you. So having to do it ever 30 seconds requires you to put in the power even if you are amazingly tired. Just riding around and varying speed is far too easy.
The other technique you have to do is at the end of the race - sprint. So you need some sprint technique and you need to know when you are going to start your sprint. Most sprinters set a mark 200 meters from the finish and then launch their sprint. It is much more complicated than that such as finding the right position, lead out rider and to get into ones sprint gear. So having a fixed gear is not such a great idea although I have a racing friend who does crits fixed gear and wins. He is a monster sprinter who has it all including leg speed so IMO, the exception.
The other feature of crits is that the peloton can go fast for some period of time. Generally, it is not the entire race but could be 3 to 5 minutes. So doing 3 to 5 minute all out intervals is another aspect to develop in addition to doing high power on off efforts.
Good luck
In a criterium course shown, there is a right hand turn, a left hand turn and two U turns. Each turn, especially the U turns provide a chance for racers to gain position on each other and accelerate causing large disruptions in the speed of the race and require large surges of effort in ones legs. The better the racer's position going into the turns and the racer's skill executing the turn at race pace, the smoother the power flow and less generation of fatigue.
Beginner races have large surges out of every corner and U turns are a total cat f'ick. A fixed gear bike going into a U turn is going to be very sketchy cornering due to pedal strike problems and sometimes, the race in the back comes to a stop and has to restart. Having a fixed gear is a severe competitive disadvantage. If the course was a simpler 4 corner crit, then maybe fixed is okay.
IMO, the training is riding the distance at tempo power which is generally the average power one gets in a crit sitting in and doing intervals such as 30 seconds on and 30 seconds off where you put in a lot of power on the "on" segment. Secondly, the peloton determines when you have to put in the power not you. So having to do it ever 30 seconds requires you to put in the power even if you are amazingly tired. Just riding around and varying speed is far too easy.
The other technique you have to do is at the end of the race - sprint. So you need some sprint technique and you need to know when you are going to start your sprint. Most sprinters set a mark 200 meters from the finish and then launch their sprint. It is much more complicated than that such as finding the right position, lead out rider and to get into ones sprint gear. So having a fixed gear is not such a great idea although I have a racing friend who does crits fixed gear and wins. He is a monster sprinter who has it all including leg speed so IMO, the exception.
The other feature of crits is that the peloton can go fast for some period of time. Generally, it is not the entire race but could be 3 to 5 minutes. So doing 3 to 5 minute all out intervals is another aspect to develop in addition to doing high power on off efforts.
Good luck
Last edited by Hermes; 01-31-19 at 09:58 AM.
01-31-19, 10:20 AM
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Backed to fixed gear. OP, if you have "mad skills" and I mean gonzo skills on fixed, then okay for the crit but IMO, it is still a competitive disadvantage. And absolutely positively no mustache handlebars...drop bars only.
02-04-19, 04:32 AM
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of course drops and no other else. And yes i have a 165mm crank arm and currently i am funding for my custom crit frame. Specifically high bb for cornering. And btw, what kind of training can you suggest to me as a first timer and not this 50km route and what kind of map that i should train because the exact crit location is far from my home. When i get there i will be tired af so that is why this is the choice of location. No cars everymorning
02-05-19, 07:21 PM
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I suggest clicking on the Racing Forum on BF and read the stickies. One is about racing and there is another which is a training recipe thread. If you search the racing forum you will find several discussions on criterium racing. I suggest you read those as well and there is a thread of race videos. I suggest you look over some of the videos.
It is unclear if you are planning to stick with fixed gear for crit racing and whether your new frame is going to be a geared bike or fixed gear. I used to supervise sessions at a velodrome and instruct new riders how to ride and race the track. The track is specifically designed for fixed gear no brakes and we only make left hand turns and there are specific rules for track racing. At the track, we allow geared bikes but then we restrict fixed gear so that geared bikes ride with geared and fixed with fixed.
In a track race, there is a neutral roll out and the race is started on the 2nd lap. A crit is started from a starting line and goes fast from the start. All the racers with geared bikes will be in their start up gear. Fixed gear riders will be in their race gear and will need a solid standing start and be able to accelerate if the pace goes very slow and then accelerates again.
So you need race gear selection, standing start practice in that gear and sprint practice.
For training, you need efforts like an hour of power at sub threshold and then the 30/30 and some VO2 work such as 4x3 to 5 minute max efforts. And of course some endurance work where you ride just ride your bike for a couple of hours. I would target 8-10 hours per week. If you are really new then drop that down to 6 to 8 hours.
This is just some general ideas.
Then there is the pack skills. You need a lot of pack riding practice so going on some group rides is extremely important. Finally, you need some cornering practice at speed and I suggest finding a buddy to practice with. If you have a training partner also practice riding next to each other and bumping into each other while in the drops. In a crit, you will get bumped. It should be no big deal. You do NOT want to get bumped, panic and stop pedaling a fixed gear bike. That is a disaster. Good luck.
It is unclear if you are planning to stick with fixed gear for crit racing and whether your new frame is going to be a geared bike or fixed gear. I used to supervise sessions at a velodrome and instruct new riders how to ride and race the track. The track is specifically designed for fixed gear no brakes and we only make left hand turns and there are specific rules for track racing. At the track, we allow geared bikes but then we restrict fixed gear so that geared bikes ride with geared and fixed with fixed.
In a track race, there is a neutral roll out and the race is started on the 2nd lap. A crit is started from a starting line and goes fast from the start. All the racers with geared bikes will be in their start up gear. Fixed gear riders will be in their race gear and will need a solid standing start and be able to accelerate if the pace goes very slow and then accelerates again.
So you need race gear selection, standing start practice in that gear and sprint practice.
For training, you need efforts like an hour of power at sub threshold and then the 30/30 and some VO2 work such as 4x3 to 5 minute max efforts. And of course some endurance work where you ride just ride your bike for a couple of hours. I would target 8-10 hours per week. If you are really new then drop that down to 6 to 8 hours.
This is just some general ideas.
Then there is the pack skills. You need a lot of pack riding practice so going on some group rides is extremely important. Finally, you need some cornering practice at speed and I suggest finding a buddy to practice with. If you have a training partner also practice riding next to each other and bumping into each other while in the drops. In a crit, you will get bumped. It should be no big deal. You do NOT want to get bumped, panic and stop pedaling a fixed gear bike. That is a disaster. Good luck.
02-06-19, 09:15 AM
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I suggest clicking on the Racing Forum on BF and read the stickies. One is about racing and there is another which is a training recipe thread. If you search the racing forum you will find several discussions on criterium racing. I suggest you read those as well and there is a thread of race videos. I suggest you look over some of the videos.
It is unclear if you are planning to stick with fixed gear for crit racing and whether your new frame is going to be a geared bike or fixed gear. I used to supervise sessions at a velodrome and instruct new riders how to ride and race the track. The track is specifically designed for fixed gear no brakes and we only make left hand turns and there are specific rules for track racing. At the track, we allow geared bikes but then we restrict fixed gear so that geared bikes ride with geared and fixed with fixed.
In a track race, there is a neutral roll out and the race is started on the 2nd lap. A crit is started from a starting line and goes fast from the start. All the racers with geared bikes will be in their start up gear. Fixed gear riders will be in their race gear and will need a solid standing start and be able to accelerate if the pace goes very slow and then accelerates again.
So you need race gear selection, standing start practice in that gear and sprint practice.
For training, you need efforts like an hour of power at sub threshold and then the 30/30 and some VO2 work such as 4x3 to 5 minute max efforts. And of course some endurance work where you ride just ride your bike for a couple of hours. I would target 8-10 hours per week. If you are really new then drop that down to 6 to 8 hours.
This is just some general ideas.
Then there is the pack skills. You need a lot of pack riding practice so going on some group rides is extremely important. Finally, you need some cornering practice at speed and I suggest finding a buddy to practice with. If you have a training partner also practice riding next to each other and bumping into each other while in the drops. In a crit, you will get bumped. It should be no big deal. You do NOT want to get bumped, panic and stop pedaling a fixed gear bike. That is a disaster. Good luck.
It is unclear if you are planning to stick with fixed gear for crit racing and whether your new frame is going to be a geared bike or fixed gear. I used to supervise sessions at a velodrome and instruct new riders how to ride and race the track. The track is specifically designed for fixed gear no brakes and we only make left hand turns and there are specific rules for track racing. At the track, we allow geared bikes but then we restrict fixed gear so that geared bikes ride with geared and fixed with fixed.
In a track race, there is a neutral roll out and the race is started on the 2nd lap. A crit is started from a starting line and goes fast from the start. All the racers with geared bikes will be in their start up gear. Fixed gear riders will be in their race gear and will need a solid standing start and be able to accelerate if the pace goes very slow and then accelerates again.
So you need race gear selection, standing start practice in that gear and sprint practice.
For training, you need efforts like an hour of power at sub threshold and then the 30/30 and some VO2 work such as 4x3 to 5 minute max efforts. And of course some endurance work where you ride just ride your bike for a couple of hours. I would target 8-10 hours per week. If you are really new then drop that down to 6 to 8 hours.
This is just some general ideas.
Then there is the pack skills. You need a lot of pack riding practice so going on some group rides is extremely important. Finally, you need some cornering practice at speed and I suggest finding a buddy to practice with. If you have a training partner also practice riding next to each other and bumping into each other while in the drops. In a crit, you will get bumped. It should be no big deal. You do NOT want to get bumped, panic and stop pedaling a fixed gear bike. That is a disaster. Good luck.
02-06-19, 12:58 PM
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I don't know about the Phillipines but any mass start race (including a criterium) under USA Cycling requires a freewheel and front and back brakes. Before you sign up for a race, make sure your bike complies with the equipment rules.
02-07-19, 11:41 AM
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We can be Brakeless in Fixed Crits and no need for a freewheel flipflop hub
02-08-19, 08:59 AM
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Fixed crit...makes sense. There is a global bike race promoter that promotes fixed gear street races. Called Red Hook. You might want to check out anything about Red Hook such as videos or other aspects that may provide some competitive info. Have fun with this.
