Any Ketogenic/Low carb riders here?
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Any Ketogenic/Low carb riders here?
I eat a low carb high fat diet most of the year. Ketogenic is what it's most often categorized as. This discussion/question is not if this is the right way or how to do it. I am simply looking for others that compete or ride in longer events while in ketosis.
On longer rides where you bring food along, what are your go-to's? This has been my main struggle.
Also, fluids. I use to mix my water bottles with Pedialyte or Coconut water when it was going to be extra warm here in Florida. I no longer do this because of the carb/sugar content. Do you stick to water only? Maybe pickle juice...? Something else?
Any tips from low carb / Keto powered riders is greatly appreciated.
On longer rides where you bring food along, what are your go-to's? This has been my main struggle.
Also, fluids. I use to mix my water bottles with Pedialyte or Coconut water when it was going to be extra warm here in Florida. I no longer do this because of the carb/sugar content. Do you stick to water only? Maybe pickle juice...? Something else?
Any tips from low carb / Keto powered riders is greatly appreciated.
#2
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I rode a 1200 with a low carb type... they had olives, cheese, and nuts to snack on... though they admitted they didn't eat a lot on long riders. If you're looking for no-calorie electrolytes I've used the vega brand and also hammer enduralytes, which are just pills so they are easy to take whenever. The vega stuff is a drink powder and it has a decent taste.
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thebulls who has posted here is on a ketogenic diet. He goes off of it for rides and back on it during the week.
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I'm not sure that *on the ride* is the best time to be strict about low-carbs. That said, I really don't do "energy gels" or bars, and I do enjoy things like trail mix and protein-heavy things like breakfast sandwiches at lunch stops. But then, I also like a bottle of chocolate milk.
#5
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I'm not sure that *on the ride* is the best time to be strict about low-carbs. That said, I really don't do "energy gels" or bars, and I do enjoy things like trail mix and protein-heavy things like breakfast sandwiches at lunch stops. But then, I also like a bottle of chocolate milk.
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I find that I ride pretty slow for a couple hours after eating a high fat content meal.
I try to have a low carb diet, but not as low carb as keto or Atkins. I average getting about 30 to 35 percent of my calories from carbs, so I probably am about half way between keto and average american diet.
I try to have a low carb diet, but not as low carb as keto or Atkins. I average getting about 30 to 35 percent of my calories from carbs, so I probably am about half way between keto and average american diet.
#8
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I find that I ride pretty slow for a couple hours after eating a high fat content meal.
I try to have a low carb diet, but not as low carb as keto or Atkins. I average getting about 30 to 35 percent of my calories from carbs, so I probably am about half way between keto and average american diet.
I try to have a low carb diet, but not as low carb as keto or Atkins. I average getting about 30 to 35 percent of my calories from carbs, so I probably am about half way between keto and average american diet.
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I have gone Keto three times for weight loss and also enjoyed a clearer head and general feeling better.
I’m about to go back on again and I also am interested in doing longer rides. I’m a commuter and I used to do 16 miles a day round trip and my job is suddenly MUCH closer. So I want to get in a few long rides a week with maybe a 40 miler on the weekend. My goal is to eventually be doing some brevets.
I’m just here to listen and get tips. I know that “for me” keto is a healthful way to eat, and for my fiancé, it is not. I believe it has a lot to do with individual chemistry.
I will say that when you are burning more calories you can incorporate slightly elevated carbohydrate intake and stay in a ketogenic state.
I’m about to go back on again and I also am interested in doing longer rides. I’m a commuter and I used to do 16 miles a day round trip and my job is suddenly MUCH closer. So I want to get in a few long rides a week with maybe a 40 miler on the weekend. My goal is to eventually be doing some brevets.
I’m just here to listen and get tips. I know that “for me” keto is a healthful way to eat, and for my fiancé, it is not. I believe it has a lot to do with individual chemistry.
I will say that when you are burning more calories you can incorporate slightly elevated carbohydrate intake and stay in a ketogenic state.
#10
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I have gone Keto three times for weight loss and also enjoyed a clearer head and general feeling better.
I’m about to go back on again and I also am interested in doing longer rides. I’m a commuter and I used to do 16 miles a day round trip and my job is suddenly MUCH closer. So I want to get in a few long rides a week with maybe a 40 miler on the weekend. My goal is to eventually be doing some brevets.
I’m just here to listen and get tips. I know that “for me” keto is a healthful way to eat, and for my fiancé, it is not. I believe it has a lot to do with individual chemistry.
I will say that when you are burning more calories you can incorporate slightly elevated carbohydrate intake and stay in a ketogenic state.
I’m about to go back on again and I also am interested in doing longer rides. I’m a commuter and I used to do 16 miles a day round trip and my job is suddenly MUCH closer. So I want to get in a few long rides a week with maybe a 40 miler on the weekend. My goal is to eventually be doing some brevets.
I’m just here to listen and get tips. I know that “for me” keto is a healthful way to eat, and for my fiancé, it is not. I believe it has a lot to do with individual chemistry.
I will say that when you are burning more calories you can incorporate slightly elevated carbohydrate intake and stay in a ketogenic state.
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I don’t think I was very clear. I do think keto IS healthful, what I was trying to say is that I enjoyed the experience, while me fiancé didn’t. I think it’s healthful for both of us, but personal chemistry, or maybe just disposition, made it seem much harder on her to transfer over to ketone generation.
I will absolutely keep you guys informed on keto riding as make my transition back into the zone.
I will absolutely keep you guys informed on keto riding as make my transition back into the zone.
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OP, I also watch my carbs in my daily life, but on centuries, 200Ks etc, I'll eat a Clif bar or some such when I feel hungry and maybe drink a sugar soda during a break, since I know I need the fuel and I'm gonna burn it off. I won't turn down a slice of pizza, etc, either but I try to be smart about it (e.g. not 3 slices of pizza).
After the ride, I am immediately back to low-carbs. It helps having less body weight to truck around.
Re what's in my water bottles? Just water. I use it to wash down the SaltStick caps I take to replenish salt lost by my profuse sweating. They help keep me from cramping (formerly a serious problem).
After the ride, I am immediately back to low-carbs. It helps having less body weight to truck around.
Re what's in my water bottles? Just water. I use it to wash down the SaltStick caps I take to replenish salt lost by my profuse sweating. They help keep me from cramping (formerly a serious problem).
#13
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I’ve been eating a Keto diet for a few years now and my body seems to function extremely well as long as I keep it down to 20 carbs or so per day. I suggest Almonds, Jerky (Keto Karne- haven’t tried it), pre cooked bacon (doesn’t need refrigeration till it’s open). Sardines, cheese, Avocados pack well, coconut oil in a small single serving container, single serving mayonnaise ( Dutch gel shots according to “the rules”). Straight up butter. Hard boiled eggs are often available at convenience stores.
Also, Atkins meal replacement shakes are handy and seem to agree with me, not affecting ketosis at all.
Lots of choices available.
Also, Atkins meal replacement shakes are handy and seem to agree with me, not affecting ketosis at all.
Lots of choices available.
Last edited by XXLHardrock; 09-16-18 at 05:12 PM.
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Ketogenic diet - commuting/weight loss/plateau/motivation
If any of you have any experience with the following, I’d love to hear it!
So I lost about 65 lbs on keto, got all motivated for commuting to work by bike in the late summer/September this year, and have been doing it ever since. My lowest weight was 238 lbs, essentially one week before I started commuting 4 times per week, 22 miles round trip each day. So after that, when I started commuting, I noticed my weight was harder to maintain. I would get on the scale and actually gain a few lbs (? muscle) and I’d have more cravings for carbs and be eating higher volume meals. For a while I got a little carried away with things like nuts and low carb ice cream (I know, I know) but I was experiencing a lot of fatigue on the commute when I ate pure Keto.
So long story short, I’ve been commuting every day I can (including in the rain, snow, cold, etc) and I’m proud of that at least—but my weight has actually crept up to 258 lbs! That’s almost 20 lbs more than my lightest. So granted, I kinda got de-motivated, went off keto for Thanksgiving, and have been struggling to get back with “high fidelity” to the <20 carb/day program, so some of this is water weight (but not all 20, I’m sure). Even if a few is muscle, maybe 3 or 4 lbs, I would LOVE to hear if anyone else experienced something similar—and if anyone was able to push through it and beat the plateau.
My goal weight is about 210-220 lbs, which means I have at least 40 lbs to lose, starting now.... since I fell off the wagon pretty hard.
Thanks for sharing advice or experiences anyone thinks might be helpful!
So I lost about 65 lbs on keto, got all motivated for commuting to work by bike in the late summer/September this year, and have been doing it ever since. My lowest weight was 238 lbs, essentially one week before I started commuting 4 times per week, 22 miles round trip each day. So after that, when I started commuting, I noticed my weight was harder to maintain. I would get on the scale and actually gain a few lbs (? muscle) and I’d have more cravings for carbs and be eating higher volume meals. For a while I got a little carried away with things like nuts and low carb ice cream (I know, I know) but I was experiencing a lot of fatigue on the commute when I ate pure Keto.
So long story short, I’ve been commuting every day I can (including in the rain, snow, cold, etc) and I’m proud of that at least—but my weight has actually crept up to 258 lbs! That’s almost 20 lbs more than my lightest. So granted, I kinda got de-motivated, went off keto for Thanksgiving, and have been struggling to get back with “high fidelity” to the <20 carb/day program, so some of this is water weight (but not all 20, I’m sure). Even if a few is muscle, maybe 3 or 4 lbs, I would LOVE to hear if anyone else experienced something similar—and if anyone was able to push through it and beat the plateau.
My goal weight is about 210-220 lbs, which means I have at least 40 lbs to lose, starting now.... since I fell off the wagon pretty hard.
Thanks for sharing advice or experiences anyone thinks might be helpful!
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You're not adding muscle and there's no plateau. How many weeks were you within 1-2% of your lowest weight? It sounds like you hit it as a low point and then bounced back up in a short time period once you added aerobic exercise - which is a well known issue with keto.
Some physiologies handle it fine but a lot don't. If you're gaining weight while commuting and eating keto you either need to stop commuting or stop eating keto. Or reduce your commuting energy expenditure by riding much slower - the equivalent of walking, but on a bike. Keto is great for sedentary, slow moving lifestyles or quick anaerobic efforts, it's not great for lifestyles with long aerobic activity.
Front/back loading carbs before exercise and immediately after is one way to accommodate both but you'll most likely never show as in ketosis on a urine test. Do some research on energy expenditure and then calculate what would be appropriate before/after exercise. I had a one hour commute and got to where one clif bar before and after were the only non-vegetable carbs I was eating. No cravings and felt strong while riding. Outside of my riding window I ate keto and it seemed to work fine for several months - I lost ~12% of my bodyweight before I went into a maintenance phase where I was in the same small weight range.
I was not able to maintain once I stopped commuting and started riding purely for enjoyment, rides of 2-3-6-8 hours are not unusual and keto/low carb did not work for those lengths of time. Now I pretty much eat whole foods only but will modify if I have long periods of low activity or very high activity.
Some physiologies handle it fine but a lot don't. If you're gaining weight while commuting and eating keto you either need to stop commuting or stop eating keto. Or reduce your commuting energy expenditure by riding much slower - the equivalent of walking, but on a bike. Keto is great for sedentary, slow moving lifestyles or quick anaerobic efforts, it's not great for lifestyles with long aerobic activity.
Front/back loading carbs before exercise and immediately after is one way to accommodate both but you'll most likely never show as in ketosis on a urine test. Do some research on energy expenditure and then calculate what would be appropriate before/after exercise. I had a one hour commute and got to where one clif bar before and after were the only non-vegetable carbs I was eating. No cravings and felt strong while riding. Outside of my riding window I ate keto and it seemed to work fine for several months - I lost ~12% of my bodyweight before I went into a maintenance phase where I was in the same small weight range.
I was not able to maintain once I stopped commuting and started riding purely for enjoyment, rides of 2-3-6-8 hours are not unusual and keto/low carb did not work for those lengths of time. Now I pretty much eat whole foods only but will modify if I have long periods of low activity or very high activity.
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So adding aerobic exercise kills keto wt loss? Interesting. Is that because the demand for glycogen increases, so you just increase gluconeogenesis from protein, or just that you get carb cravings to stock your muscle glycogen stores? Or, because muscle injury causes inflammation/water retention? Any idea?
THANK YOU for the suggestion about the cliff bar before and after the rides. I think I’m definitely going to have to calorie count, maybe switch over to the whole foods/veggies, and cool it on the nuts, protein, and low carb ice cream.
THANK YOU for the suggestion about the cliff bar before and after the rides. I think I’m definitely going to have to calorie count, maybe switch over to the whole foods/veggies, and cool it on the nuts, protein, and low carb ice cream.
#18
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So adding aerobic exercise kills keto wt loss? Interesting. Is that because the demand for glycogen increases, so you just increase gluconeogenesis from protein, or just that you get carb cravings to stock your muscle glycogen stores? Or, because muscle injury causes inflammation/water retention? Any idea?
THANK YOU for the suggestion about the cliff bar before and after the rides. I think I’m definitely going to have to calorie count, maybe switch over to the whole foods/veggies, and cool it on the nuts, protein, and low carb ice cream.
THANK YOU for the suggestion about the cliff bar before and after the rides. I think I’m definitely going to have to calorie count, maybe switch over to the whole foods/veggies, and cool it on the nuts, protein, and low carb ice cream.
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It's a combination of different issues.
As noted above, it's hard to be able to get exert yourself aerobically both in terms of muscle strength and heart rate if your body doesn't have access to fast acting carbohydrates. Gluconeogensis is slow, inefficient and does not provide the same fuel in the same way as would eating an apple or something. Combine with the body's ability to create intense cravings for things it knows have carbohydrates and it's very easy to stall weight loss or gain weight. The cravings I had for sugar after doing long rides on keto were worse than quitting smoking or drinking.
Like this, your body craves ice cream because previously ice cream gave a big sugar hit. Low-carb ice cream tastes similar but does not provide the sugar hit so you end up eating excess calories as fat and protein when your body wants carbohydrates. If able to control small portions of carbohydrates it's easier to end up with a calorie deficient or maintenance level by ingesting X calories worth of carbohydrates instead of X+400 calories of almost entirely fat/protein. If you move those carbohydrates directly before or after aerobic exercise that can often resolve portion control issues that are more difficult when eating in a regular setting.
You've previously lost a significant amount of weight so I assume your mental calculus is good, just understand these are suggestions and may not work for you. People's bodies and brains are all very different and it's easy to lose sight of that when reading/posting online.
As noted above, it's hard to be able to get exert yourself aerobically both in terms of muscle strength and heart rate if your body doesn't have access to fast acting carbohydrates. Gluconeogensis is slow, inefficient and does not provide the same fuel in the same way as would eating an apple or something. Combine with the body's ability to create intense cravings for things it knows have carbohydrates and it's very easy to stall weight loss or gain weight. The cravings I had for sugar after doing long rides on keto were worse than quitting smoking or drinking.
Like this, your body craves ice cream because previously ice cream gave a big sugar hit. Low-carb ice cream tastes similar but does not provide the sugar hit so you end up eating excess calories as fat and protein when your body wants carbohydrates. If able to control small portions of carbohydrates it's easier to end up with a calorie deficient or maintenance level by ingesting X calories worth of carbohydrates instead of X+400 calories of almost entirely fat/protein. If you move those carbohydrates directly before or after aerobic exercise that can often resolve portion control issues that are more difficult when eating in a regular setting.
You've previously lost a significant amount of weight so I assume your mental calculus is good, just understand these are suggestions and may not work for you. People's bodies and brains are all very different and it's easy to lose sight of that when reading/posting online.
#20
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If you have a scale, weigh out a portion of nuts... it's pretty small. I know I can eat ridiculous amounts of nuts. I hardly keep them in the house when I'm trying to lose weight because I love them so much. Not that another anecdote means much but I went from around 300 to 215 currently, was 200 in the spring, just doing plain old portion control by weighing food and counting calories. I shoot for 50% carbs and the balance between fat & protein. I usually fall a bit short on the carbs but it changes a bit most days. I also don't eat back all the calories my HR monitor says I burned... it said a I burned 2800 on a 3 hour ride yesterday... seems kind of high to me.
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If you have a scale, weigh out a portion of nuts... it's pretty small. I know I can eat ridiculous amounts of nuts. I hardly keep them in the house when I'm trying to lose weight because I love them so much. Not that another anecdote means much but I went from around 300 to 215 currently, was 200 in the spring, just doing plain old portion control by weighing food and counting calories. I shoot for 50% carbs and the balance between fat & protein. I usually fall a bit short on the carbs but it changes a bit most days. I also don't eat back all the calories my HR monitor says I burned... it said a I burned 2800 on a 3 hour ride yesterday... seems kind of high to me.
I never believe the calorie counts from HR monitors and the like. My 2 hour ride on my heavy bike with the studded snow tires yesterday probably only burned about 900 calories.
#22
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Research studies have found that people underestimate their intake and overestimate how much they expend. I only eat nuts that I have weighed out because I also can eat a ridiculous amount of them in a single sitting. Same goes for my beloved almond butter. A 2 T portion looks pretty pathetic when I make my sandwiches.
I never believe the calorie counts from HR monitors and the like. My 2 hour ride on my heavy bike with the studded snow tires yesterday probably only burned about 900 calories.
I never believe the calorie counts from HR monitors and the like. My 2 hour ride on my heavy bike with the studded snow tires yesterday probably only burned about 900 calories.
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I wish I could eat as slow as my husband. I will never forget driving back from Wisconsin and we stopped for gas and he got a pack of nuts. Probably a 1.5 oz package. I was driving. It took him nearly an HOUR to eat that package. It would have taken me a minute, possibly 2 at the most to polish off that package.
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I eat a low carb high fat diet most of the year. Ketogenic is what it's most often categorized as. This discussion/question is not if this is the right way or how to do it. I am simply looking for others that compete or ride in longer events while in ketosis.
On longer rides where you bring food along, what are your go-to's? This has been my main struggle.
Also, fluids. I use to mix my water bottles with Pedialyte or Coconut water when it was going to be extra warm here in Florida. I no longer do this because of the carb/sugar content. Do you stick to water only? Maybe pickle juice...? Something else?
Any tips from low carb / Keto powered riders is greatly appreciated.
On longer rides where you bring food along, what are your go-to's? This has been my main struggle.
Also, fluids. I use to mix my water bottles with Pedialyte or Coconut water when it was going to be extra warm here in Florida. I no longer do this because of the carb/sugar content. Do you stick to water only? Maybe pickle juice...? Something else?
Any tips from low carb / Keto powered riders is greatly appreciated.
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It's a combination of different issues.
... Gluconeogensis is slow, inefficient and does not provide the same fuel in the same way as would eating an apple or something.... The cravings I had for sugar after doing long rides on keto were worse than quitting smoking or drinking....
Like this, your body craves ice cream because previously ice cream gave a big sugar hit. Low-carb ice cream tastes similar but does not provide the sugar hit so you end up eating excess calories as fat and protein when your body wants carbohydrates. If able to control small portions of carbohydrates it's easier to end up with a calorie deficient or maintenance level by ingesting X calories worth of carbohydrates instead of X+400 calories of almost entirely fat/protein. If you move those carbohydrates directly before or after aerobic exercise that can often resolve portion control issues that are more difficult when eating in a regular setting....
... Gluconeogensis is slow, inefficient and does not provide the same fuel in the same way as would eating an apple or something.... The cravings I had for sugar after doing long rides on keto were worse than quitting smoking or drinking....
Like this, your body craves ice cream because previously ice cream gave a big sugar hit. Low-carb ice cream tastes similar but does not provide the sugar hit so you end up eating excess calories as fat and protein when your body wants carbohydrates. If able to control small portions of carbohydrates it's easier to end up with a calorie deficient or maintenance level by ingesting X calories worth of carbohydrates instead of X+400 calories of almost entirely fat/protein. If you move those carbohydrates directly before or after aerobic exercise that can often resolve portion control issues that are more difficult when eating in a regular setting....
I had been trying to avoid carbs altogether (worries about getting kicked out of ketosis, etc, etc) but it may make more sense to have a KIND bar or something a little bit more carby before or after rides and see if I can keep it to a minimum (replenishing muscle glycogen or just having enough fuel for intense exercise twice a day).
Honestly, if cycling performance continues to improve, and the numbers on the scale/fit of clothes continue to get better (even slowly, I’ll gladly accept slow and steady!) I don’t really care if I’m completely keto or “carb cycling” or simply maintaining with a whole food or other reasonable carb intake lifestyle. My problem—as you mentioned in the insightful comment about smoking and drinking—is that I’m a huge carb addict, so for me it almost makes sense to “stay sober” altogether if I can. But unfortunately, I might not be able to enjoy cycling to work as much if I’m completely depleted of glycogen/glucose and dragging all the way there and back. It’s way more fun to have a brisk, enjoyable, fast paced good workout than it is to spin up hills feeling depleted of glycogen and fatigued.
The other thing I was trying to do was intermittent fasting with a 2 hr food window when I got home from work, which worked GREAT from 300 lbs down to 250, before I started commuting by bike. Once I was down to 237 lbs though, and commuting, I couldn’t sustain it anymore. I had to replenish with nuts or low carb ice cream or something, but it was hard to keep it to just one serving.... for me nuts and low carb ice cream lead to “no sugar added” ice cream which leads to “no sugar added fudge tracks” ice cream, leads to a taste of the wife/kids’ regular ice cream which leads to a forkful of apple pie and a birthday cupcake and pretty soon I’m rationalizing having two pieces of NON-keto cheesecake because I can go back on keto *tomorrow*.....
Last edited by ripkin; 12-04-18 at 02:47 AM.