gugie 

This was a repair job. If I were to do it just for decoration, I'd use epoxy. Obviously the paint had to be done after brazing, it would be easier to do off the frame. Also, the large flat areas aren't the easiest thing to braze, then there's the masking required prior to paint. If you powder coat you need high temp tape. In other words, epoxy it on, it's much simpler.

Nessism

A gracious member here is helping me sort out the image cleanup. I've also been learning GIMP myself in parallel and have made some progress as shown below. A lot of the edge blurriness goes away when shrunk to size so got that working for me. Regarding the sawtooth edge, I'm thinking that maybe I'll file that edge and possibly make it round like a chainring.

Got to figure out what's going to be a high spot vs. low. Planning to try etches different ways and see what works best.

Nessism

My new best friend here (feel free to out yourself if you feel inclined) just sent me this artwork based off my original photo. My attempt at cleanup looks comical in comparison. Anyway, just had to share...

Andrew R Stewart 

Getting the help of an experienced person, who has no emotional attachment to an image, is a very good step. When I "designed" my shop's logo I got the help of a graphics person (who was a friend of the wife's). I ended up with a far better image that worked for the various applications I intended and also in various sizes of the art work. (Small reproductions like a letter head need different details then a larger image, say on a water bottle or Tee shirt does).

I very much like the linkage to a bike with the use of a chainring outer image. Here's a bad scan of what I ended up with in 1987. Andy

unterhausen

okay, I did this for fun. Inkscape-> fusion 360 -> shapeways
Only $1400 in platinum.

If you aren't feeling that flush, it's only $16.50 in brass or bronze
Not sure why their render always wants to make it upside-down

unterhausen

I was thinking about adding a wheel to my headbadge image, but I think the process of 3d printing and then casting would probably make it a waste of time because of the spokes. There is a place where a chain ring would probably fit pretty nicely, I'll have to play with that.

squirtdad

updside down render.... is it used to make a lost wax image that is then cast?

edit
in the words of the the immortal RoseAnn Roseannadanna.....never mind...... I thought it was reversed, not upside down

unterhausen

you figured it out, but that is pretty much how they make it. 3d print something and then make a mold for casting.

Kinda wish i had discovered this a long time ago. I had seen rhm's head badges, but I never tried it for myself.

I tried making a product out of this, but since it isn't public, it's not in my store. There is supposed to be a way to get a link to it, but I haven't discovered that yet.

Nessism

Super cool. Thanks for exploring that for me. Is it printed in metal or cast after printing a part suitable for making a mold?

Edit: looks to be printed directly from the metal you choose. How's that for modern technology! And cheap! WOW!

rhm

I think that's true only of the aluminum, and I'm not even sure about that.

Brass and bronze (as well as silver and gold and i presume platinum as well) are "printed" in castable wax, and then actually cast by the lost wax process.

The stuff they call steel is printed in a matrix of steel powder, binder, fluxes, etc that is then heated to the fusing point and infused with molten bronze.

Nessism

Okay, I see now where they cast the metal parts. Thanks for clarifying that.

Doug Fattic 

I’ll explain how a few of my frame building class students have made a 2D head tube badge using a sheet of stainless steel. A couple of them made them a bit more 3D by putting another cutout plate of brass on top of the SS one. This is a method borrowed from the ways I have learned to carve blank lugs.

The best way to create a pattern is by doing them twice life size. It is much easier to get the curves and proportions right when drawing a bigger pattern. Once created it is reduced to normal size on a copy machine to see if it looks right. I use vellum paper for it erasability and translucidity (this makes it easier fold the paper and copy the other side). It is possible to rubber or contact cement this paper pattern directly onto the metal sheet but Avery makes a product that works better and easier. A full size see through (kinda clear) sheet of label material from Avery for ink jet printing is #18665. For laser printing their model # is 15665. This stuff can be bought at office supply or art stores. These sheets have a backing paper that covers sticky stuff that when removed can attach to your ss plate.

I have a variety of jeweler’s saws and blades to cut out the pattern. A basic Jeweler’s saw is not expensive (although I like the more pricy Knew brand better). It is easy to break blades until one gets used to how they work so buy plenty. The trick is to not cut directly on the line but rather leave just a tiny bit to be filed off to the line later.

Once the design has been cut out it can be curved to match the head tube by squeezing it between 2 heavy walled pieces of tubes (like 0.120 wall). The inside tube diameter should be something like 1/8” smaller than the head tube. The squishing tube would be 1/4” OD bigger than the inner tube (if using tubes with 0.120 wall thickness). For example the inner tube is 1 1/8” OD with 0.120” wall thickness. The 2nd bigger tube is cut lengthwise in half (so it can fit over the inner tube) and is 1 3/8” OD with a 0.120” thick wall. With the design placed between the 2 tubes they are pressed together in a vise so it will become curved to match the roundness of the head tube.

Nessism

First trial. The random flecking is due to flaws in the mask. It's really hard to get that part perfect. Going to play around some more. Colors are just what I had on hand...

I think with a process like this (acid etching) the results are invariably going to come out a little rough-hewn. As much as I'd like it to look perfect, there is no sense in fighting it..

Nessism

Oh, and while I was thinking about filing the sprocket shape into the OD on further reflection I'm leaning towards leaving it as shown. With a jagged OD salt from sweat will collect into the valleys and cause corrosion.

Nessism

Tried to make some more trials but not happy with the quality of the mask I'm able to create using my cheapo Dell laser printer. In order to make a truly opaque mask a high quality printer is needed.

The specs for my printer state:
Print resolution
600 x 600 dpi (Up to 2400 x 600 dpi)

Not sure why the resolution is higher on one axis vs the other for high quality print mode but I assume this relates to idiosyncrasies of the hardware. At any rate, more than 600 dpi is needed in order to make a good mask I think which means I need to find a better printer.

rhm

​​​​​​You may be right, but the result you've got so far is much better than anything I've ever got by the same method!

Once the mask is on the brass, and before you etch it, can you see the pinholes? If so, you should be able to cover them. I'd try applying a little bit of white (lithium) grease something you can see clearly enough. Also worth trying wax, latex paint, etc.

Nessism

Thanks for the kudos! I've had a little help with this project so the credit isn't all mine!

Yeah, I can see the pinholes. Used a sharpy to cover over most of them but can't get too close to the lettering for fear of obscuring something plus the sharpy doesn't have the best hold back strength and I think the acid burned through some of them. Interestingly, found that by using Window's photo editing app and sharpening the "clarity" all the way the blacks got blacker so to speak and I got a better print. Working on a new mask right now and hopes are high! Stay tuned.

rhm

Yes, you do have to keep away from the edges.....

What kind of Sharpie? I wouldn't expect the garden variety market to be an effective mask, but the paint pens might work better. Also, what about a grease pencil or even a wax crayon?

unterhausen

It looks great. I used to draw circuits for etching with paint pens. Pretty sure they were testors paint.

Nessism

2nd attempt. I'm getting better at making the masks. Basically, after doing the iron-on business I go back with the sharpy and color in all the flaws, including the pinholes and such. I got sloppy around the eye showing on the left. Regarding the flaws in the K and A, those occurred while sanding off the paint (sanded too deep). My fault.



2nd attempt.

unterhausen

that looks really good

Andrew R Stewart 

Some cultures believe a product/creation, with no flaws is wrong. That the crafts person is trying to be a god in their perfection. We do hand made stuff. We leave a trail of our humanity in the results.

When I attended the last Eisentraut frame class, Rutland VT in 1979, all but a couple of us were complete newbies to anything frame building wise. One after another would ask Al if this miter or that lug prep was good enough. After a couple of days of these many confirmations he stopped us all and stated that since our bodies weren't perfect, symmetrical and without flaws we can't expect out frames to need to be perfect. "Show me a perfect body and I'll make a perfect frame" was his ending statement.

The head badge looks great. Andy

unterhausen

The saying, "only God is perfect" is my touchstone. Actually, it's more like, "nobody that matters is going to notice"

Andrew R Stewart 

Agreed. I don't know how many times I've completed a project filled with all the wrong/didn't turn out like I wanted bits and others only say great things about the project. They never knew what I didn't do. Andy

Nessism

Charlie Brown read where "we learn from our mistakes", at which point he proclaimed "that makes me the smartest person in the world!"

My favorite is that it's only a MISTAKE if you do something wrong TWICE!