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Recommendation for a frame paint design in New England?

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Old 12-26-18, 07:42 PM
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PedalingWalrus
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Recommendation for a frame paint design in New England?

im in Maine and I will be in possession of an unpainted titanium frame that I would like to be painted with yellow sunshine/sunburst design.

Could you you please recommend someone , preferably in New England?

i am looking for a competent artist AND frame painter

thanks

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Old 12-27-18, 07:23 AM
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I thought that one of the advantages of titanium is that it is corrosion resistant and doesn't have to be painted.
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Old 12-27-18, 07:43 AM
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You have never seen a painted titanium frame? :-) Particularly one that shows parts of the frame in brushed titanium while other parts are painted?

Thanks for the education.

Originally Posted by ironwood
I thought that one of the advantages of titanium is that it is corrosion resistant and doesn't have to be painted.
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Old 12-27-18, 08:08 AM
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These guys have lots of experience painting Ti frames...https://www.spectrum-cycles.com/about.php
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Old 12-27-18, 08:37 AM
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Thanks for the recommendation. Too bad I'd have to ship the frame out to them but if I don't find anything within reasonable driving distance I might just contact them. They seem to be high quality shop.

Originally Posted by Nessism
These guys have lots of experience painting Ti frames...https://www.spectrum-cycles.com/about.php
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Old 12-27-18, 10:23 AM
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Seven and Firefly make titanium bikes in Boston, one of them might be able to recommend a painter. I don't know if they paint in house or contract the work out.
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Old 12-27-18, 11:57 AM
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Yes. I was considering contacting Firefly.

Originally Posted by ironwood
Seven and Firefly make titanium bikes in Boston, one of them might be able to recommend a painter. I don't know if they paint in house or contract the work out.
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Old 12-27-18, 12:57 PM
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shipping a frame is quite cheap using Bikeflights. Only had good luck with them. Once you mix up artistry and frame paint, $30-50 each way for shipping is nothing.

I'm sure there are others, but you might consider velocolour VéloColour

As a pragmatist, I wouldn't paint a Ti frame, but it can look really good.
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Old 12-27-18, 01:34 PM
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It's complicated but at the lowest common denominator I want a yellow bike and I like the longevity of titanium :-)

In general I do not like a shiny silver bike ...

Originally Posted by unterhausen
shipping a frame is quite cheap using Bikeflights. Only had good luck with them. Once you mix up artistry and frame paint, $30-50 each way for shipping is nothing.

I'm sure there are others, but you might consider velocolour VéloColour

As a pragmatist, I wouldn't paint a Ti frame, but it can look really good.
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Old 12-27-18, 01:35 PM
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is bike flights still cheap to Canada ?

addendum - it's almost double to Toronto versus to Philadelphia but still (sort) of reasonable.

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Old 12-27-18, 02:15 PM
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I have also found Hot Tubes in Boston Massachusetts. Emailed them too.
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Old 12-27-18, 03:58 PM
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Hypothetically speaking if I knew a painting artist who gas experience on canvas...what kind of paint would be best to supply them with and what additional final protective coat is required to finalize the paint job?
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Old 12-27-18, 06:07 PM
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I painted a bunch of Moots frames some time ago for an anniversary frame they made. I used a House of Kolor Kameleon (it changes color depending on which direction you look at it. That paint at that time cost over $300 a pint. Of course the whole frame wasn't painted just parts of it leaving stays and the area around the bottom bracket bare. This way their decals could be buried in clear so it looked like they were encased in glass. There are 2 significant problems painting titanium. The 1st is that some primers don't stick very well to ti and I eventually figured out which primer worked best. The 2nd problem is that the layers of paint at the transition to bare ti is hard to make it look like it doesn't have a thick edge. Paint collects on tape edges making it harder to sand smooth without scratching the titanium. To do the best job I had to move the masks just a tiny bit so the paint edge was tapered.

Oh and one more thing, Yellow is a difficult color to paint. It is easy to leave fingerprints when sanding that don't show up until the clears are being applied. And in addition the color wants to run away from any edge.

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Old 12-27-18, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by PedalingWalrus
Hypothetically speaking if I knew a painting artist who gas experience on canvas...what kind of paint would be best to supply them with and what additional final protective coat is required to finalize the paint job?
I would ask the artist. If he's clueless about bike/auto paints and their processes/chemistry I would find another. Andy
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Old 12-27-18, 08:41 PM
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You would be better off looking for a car painter than an artist. Painting a frame or car uses the same process, but creating artwork is completely different.
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Old 12-27-18, 09:03 PM
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I wish my experience with the couple handfuls of car painters I have used were better then it has been. A very few understood the differences between the shapes and contours of bike frames compared to those of a car. I also suspect in a couple of cases the car painter didn't have the motivation to do the job they could. Andy
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Old 12-27-18, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Nessism
You would be better off looking for a car painter than an artist. Painting a frame or car uses the same process, but creating artwork is completely different.
While it is true that the basic process is the same, there is a different method used in painting a flat surface compared to round ones coming together. Painting a bike frame is a more difficult challenge requiring more precise spray gun control. These challenges include getting overspray on adjoining tubes. This is a kind of dulling that happens because the surrounding areas get a mist but are not fully wetted out. It is essential that a certain pattern of where to start and stop be used. It is not a time for experimentation. Not all paints have the same coverage ability and more paint around on the joints can have a shading effect.

While it is possible a car painter can do a great job it isn't likely. Furthermore what the OP wants is probably a multi-color paint job including decals. How to make these transitions is something skilled bike painters know how to do. Furthermore if the OP is going to want the painter to use masks to create patterns, then there needs to be an understanding of proportions on a bike frame.

Knowing what I know as a bike painter there is no way I would take a frame to a car painter if I somehow lost my coordination. I'd look for a motorcycle guy. However why compromise? There have been many guys painting bicycle frames for a long time. Stick with one that has experience unless you don't mind how it turns out and learning on the go is part of the fun even though you get iffy results.
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Old 12-27-18, 09:21 PM
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Seems to me I need to stick with a bicycle painter who has experience working with titanium. Let's hope some of those I contacted will get back to me. One thing I did not mention that might make the work easier is the frame will have 4 couplers
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Old 12-28-18, 09:52 AM
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I just did a service on a 10 year old Spectrum TI bike with a red to yellow fade job. Excepting the bare TI to paint edges the job is fantastic. I would consider contacting Tom and see if he does paint only work. Andy
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Old 12-28-18, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
While it is true that the basic process is the same, there is a different method used in painting a flat surface compared to round ones coming together. Painting a bike frame is a more difficult challenge requiring more precise spray gun control. These challenges include getting overspray on adjoining tubes. This is a kind of dulling that happens because the surrounding areas get a mist but are not fully wetted out. It is essential that a certain pattern of where to start and stop be used. It is not a time for experimentation. Not all paints have the same coverage ability and more paint around on the joints can have a shading effect.

While it is possible a car painter can do a great job it isn't likely. Furthermore what the OP wants is probably a multi-color paint job including decals. How to make these transitions is something skilled bike painters know how to do. Furthermore if the OP is going to want the painter to use masks to create patterns, then there needs to be an understanding of proportions on a bike frame.

Knowing what I know as a bike painter there is no way I would take a frame to a car painter if I somehow lost my coordination. I'd look for a motorcycle guy. However why compromise? There have been many guys painting bicycle frames for a long time. Stick with one that has experience unless you don't mind how it turns out and learning on the go is part of the fun even though you get iffy results.
I'm not doubting you Doug but I will say that I'm a hack painter and yet I manage to get pretty good smooth coverage, even when I painted my first frame. And I never painted a car before either. I just don't think it's that hard if one applies common sense when shooting the paint.

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Old 12-30-18, 08:42 PM
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This product comes with recommendation. https://us.spray.bike/

Hype or real deal?
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Old 12-30-18, 09:02 PM
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Hi Doug, what primer was the one that worked best with Titanium? If you don't mind my asking.

So "house of color" is the best paint? That is for airbrushing right? How about real brush work? What paint would you recommend?

I am now slightly pivoting into leaving the Titanium bare as a canvas with patterns painted onto it, interspersed. If this was, for example, a field of suns (yellow) one would need a primer under each sun only, bare titanium as a canvas and then clear coat over the whole frame?


Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
I painted a bunch of Moots frames some time ago for an anniversary frame they made. I used a House of Kolor Kameleon (it changes color depending on which direction you look at it. That paint at that time cost over $300 a pint. Of course the whole frame wasn't painted just parts of it leaving stays and the area around the bottom bracket bare. This way their decals could be buried in clear so it looked like they were encased in glass. There are 2 significant problems painting titanium. The 1st is that some primers don't stick very well to ti and I eventually figured out which primer worked best. The 2nd problem is that the layers of paint at the transition to bare ti is hard to make it look like it doesn't have a thick edge. Paint collects on tape edges making it harder to sand smooth without scratching the titanium. To do the best job I had to move the masks just a tiny bit so the paint edge was tapered.

Oh and one more thing, Yellow is a difficult color to paint. It is easy to leave fingerprints when sanding that don't show up until the clears are being applied. And in addition the color wants to run away from any edge.
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Old 12-30-18, 09:11 PM
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I saw that some months/year? ago. Looked the website over and didn't really feel much detail was given about things like coverage, thickness or any explanation to how the stuff cures/dries/melts. It's not what most would consider an industrial powder coat (as it doesn't have a heat to melt in phase). For all I know it might be common lacquer with a new name. I haven't heard or read of anyone using it since. So I have nothing to recommend but get double what you think, practice, do a frame and let us know your experience. Andy
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Old 12-30-18, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by PedalingWalrus
Hi Doug, what primer was the one that worked best with Titanium? If you don't mind my asking. So "house of color" is the best paint? That is for airbrushing right? How about real brush work? What paint would you recommend? I am now slightly pivoting into leaving the Titanium bare as a canvas with patterns painted onto it, interspersed. If this was, for example, a field of suns (yellow) one would need a primer under each sun only, bare titanium as a canvas and then clear coat over the whole frame?
I use House of Kolor paints because it was one of the 1st paint companies in the 80's to come out with glamour paints like pearls and candies that was compatible with polyurethane enamels. Lacquers look great but chip easily. It was originated by a guy named Kosmenski which is why their title words start with a k instead of a c. Eventually the company got bought out by Valspar. Once you start working with a product you build up a valuable inventory so you keep using it. The stuff works fine but the window of time between coats they recommend has to be strictly adhered to. It got a bad reputation in the 90's because some bicycle painters would not follow the timelines because of doing several colors with masks and that made the paint too dry between coats and as a result lost some durability.

H of K paint can be airbrushed but it is regular sprayable paint for cars or motorcycles or bicycle frames. It is not designed to be brushed on although tiny errors can be patched with a brush.

I wouldn't recommend having bare spots between color designs because no clear coat is designed to stick directly to titanium. That is the purpose of primer. The primer I use for titanium is old Dupont Corlar that has been taken off the market. I made sure to buy a supply before it was gone. Marvelous stuff. It wasn't popular with car painters because it was difficult to stir after settling if not used in awhile, had to incubate an hour after adding the activator and was slow drying unless baked. Car painters are not worried about durability but rather want something that they can put on fast. Besides it sticking power, Corlar also sanded beautifully too.
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Old 12-31-18, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ironwood
Seven and Firefly make titanium bikes in Boston, one of them might be able to recommend a painter. I don't know if they paint in house or contract the work out.
I ride by the Firefly shop daily on my commute. I was joking with them at the Builder's Ball that I could always tell from a block away when their paint shop was running, by the smell. I was sternly informed that they don't paint their bikes, just anodize, and the smell was the furniture manufacturer next door... I got the feeling this might've been a sore point in their neighborhood...

I'm pretty sure Firefly outsources painting (for customers that want it) to Hot Tubes. I might be mis-remembering this, but certainly lots of the builders I met use Hot Tubes. Spendy but beautiful results, well worth a call.
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