Talent vs tech
02-17-19, 12:09 PM
#26
Banned
I don't live in your trend market driven urban areas.. (LA a prime example) ,, but I do get a sense many asking in this forum, about upgrading to more "Speeds"
As if that is going to make them faster , with out adding effort ..
As if that is going to make them faster , with out adding effort ..
02-17-19, 12:39 PM
#27
☢
Well for me it depends on the race. In cycling I prefer the more challenging courses than the all out road races where the end result is solely depend on speed.
02-17-19, 12:48 PM
#28
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02-17-19, 12:58 PM
#29
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02-17-19, 01:21 PM
#30
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Found a pic of the OP:
Yes, cycling technology has been the ruination of racing ever since the beginning. What can we do about this scourge??
Yes, cycling technology has been the ruination of racing ever since the beginning. What can we do about this scourge??
02-17-19, 01:42 PM
#31
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The OP implies that races are won by tech or by talent. In my experience (at least in ski racing), the winners have both. That is, the guys and girls with the best hardware, and the best training, and the best fitness, and the best wax, etc.
Elite level athletes are fussy perfectionists. They work hard at every aspect of their game, and leave nothing for chance.
I used to run lots of dual slalom against some really good skiers. I could just glance over at my opponents skis and know how much I was going to win or lose - within a quarter of a second. When you looked over and saw someone who was using next year's team race skis (marked: Prototype or TEST), that got your attention. Invariably, your opponent was wearing a team jacket that said "National Development Team" or "Suisse" or the like, then you knew you knew you were going to be thrashed.
Elite level athletes are fussy perfectionists. They work hard at every aspect of their game, and leave nothing for chance.
I used to run lots of dual slalom against some really good skiers. I could just glance over at my opponents skis and know how much I was going to win or lose - within a quarter of a second. When you looked over and saw someone who was using next year's team race skis (marked: Prototype or TEST), that got your attention. Invariably, your opponent was wearing a team jacket that said "National Development Team" or "Suisse" or the like, then you knew you knew you were going to be thrashed.
02-17-19, 04:47 PM
#32
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They both matter but ability matters WAAAAY more than equipment.
Yes, having better or worse gear can make the difference between winning and coming in 2nd place.
Ability determines whether you are battling for 1st place or 2nd to last place.
Yes, having better or worse gear can make the difference between winning and coming in 2nd place.
Ability determines whether you are battling for 1st place or 2nd to last place.
02-17-19, 06:53 PM
#33
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Yes it should be that way but that's not how it works out in the real world... Drugs have won more athletic events then ability, talent and equipment. It's come to a place where it's impossible to compete at the highest level without some chemical assistance.
02-17-19, 07:53 PM
#34
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As evidenced by the fact that I regularly post against cf frames, spandex, and clipless.
I am a tech junkie on my 1975 Motobecane and soon to be a tech junkie on my new Litespeed 20lb titanium bike with flat pedals
You keep randomly and childishly ranting about ‘tech’ though bro.
It’s so refreshing and thought provoking lol.
02-17-19, 08:37 PM
#35
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I'm pretty sure he was referring to mechanical/material assistance.
02-17-19, 08:40 PM
#36
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Thread Starter
You got me.
As evidenced by the fact that I regularly post against cf frames, spandex, and clipless.
I am a tech junkie on my 1975 Motobecane and soon to be a tech junkie on my new Litespeed 20lb titanium bike with flat pedals
You keep randomly and childishly ranting about ‘tech’ though bro.
It’s so refreshing and thought provoking lol.
02-17-19, 08:46 PM
#37
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I've got a modern carbon aero bike with Di2, disc brakes, 17 lbs, all the bells and whistles. I also have a 1964 Legnano, old school Campy, 12 speed friction shifters, 26 lbs. Guess which bike has my personal best avg. on my Malibu run on PCH? The Legnano. Surprised me too. I love tech, and I love old steel, but it's not all about the bike. Ride what you love, love what you ride. ��
I was there.
But seriously, these comparisons are often meaningless unless the testing is done on identical days with identical conditions.
When I am on top form and feeling well, both my Master and Bottecchia feel and ride fast. If I were to ride either the C59 or C60 under identical conditions, the results might be different. We need side by side testing in order to validate the results.
One area where better, lighter equipment outshines older equipment is in hill climbing. I consistently get better average speeds on the hills when using my CF bikes.
BTW, old age and treachery will beat youth and exuberance and, on a real good day, better equipment as well.
02-17-19, 08:54 PM
#38
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02-17-19, 09:02 PM
#39
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Seriously, however, I am old, fat and incredibly slow. No bike will make me faster unless it has a big old motor. @Slightspeed will tell you exactly how slow and bad of a rider I am.
The only reason that I buy and ride the bikes that I do is because after years of putting my kids through private schools and college, now it is time for Papa to treat himself. I am having a great time spending their inheritance.
02-17-19, 09:06 PM
#40
Senior Member
The two riders swapped bikes and compared times of each bike with the same rider on the same courses.
The bottom line comparing a ~$100 craigslist road bike, to a $7500 top of the line racing bike, yielded about a 10-15% performance advantage for the new bike (much of which was braking advantage).
They tested again with a new $1000 road bike vs the $7500 one, and the difference shrank to 2-4%, depending on the course.
The bottom line comparing a ~$100 craigslist road bike, to a $7500 top of the line racing bike, yielded about a 10-15% performance advantage for the new bike (much of which was braking advantage).
They tested again with a new $1000 road bike vs the $7500 one, and the difference shrank to 2-4%, depending on the course.
02-17-19, 09:07 PM
#41
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02-17-19, 09:08 PM
#42
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at bike races I notice some riders are sooo tech heavy they have every bell and whistle available to a rider and other riders are minimalists or they don't have the money to spend on tech...it seems either races are determined by who can afford the most advantages or who actually is the better racer....talking about the local races that is
02-17-19, 09:09 PM
#44
Senior Member
The difference is exactly 10% improved performance, for fully five times or 500% the investment.
02-17-19, 09:33 PM
#46
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Thread Starter
Maybe, maybe not. I watched this video a few days ago and I was surprised at the difference between the $7,000 bike vs the $1,400 bike (the performance of the Walmart bike wasn't surprising). Nearly 6 minutes over an hour is a significant difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXflmGqJakA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXflmGqJakA
02-17-19, 09:49 PM
#47
Senior Member
What happens when local guys on a limited budget, can't afford the spec bike?
You can have "Run what ya brung" or a spec series, but not both.
02-17-19, 09:50 PM
#48
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The two riders swapped bikes and compared times of each bike with the same rider on the same courses.
The bottom line comparing a ~$100 craigslist road bike, to a $7500 top of the line racing bike, yielded about a 10-15% performance advantage for the new bike (much of which was braking advantage).
They tested again with a new $1000 road bike vs the $7500 one, and the difference shrank to 2-4%, depending on the course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HmVQCAjBE0
The bottom line comparing a ~$100 craigslist road bike, to a $7500 top of the line racing bike, yielded about a 10-15% performance advantage for the new bike (much of which was braking advantage).
They tested again with a new $1000 road bike vs the $7500 one, and the difference shrank to 2-4%, depending on the course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HmVQCAjBE0
I will now give away my Colnagos and march myself to WallyWorld.
02-17-19, 10:01 PM
#49
Banned
Thread Starter
if the guy with the most to spend wins is he better or is his advantages the reason he won
02-17-19, 10:02 PM
#50
Senior Member
Maybe, maybe not. I watched this video a few days ago and I was surprised at the difference between the $7,000 bike vs the $1,400 bike (the performance of the Walmart bike wasn't surprising). Nearly 6 minutes over an hour is a significant difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXflmGqJakA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXflmGqJakA
That's considerably bigger than the difference I get between my Emonda and my 1984 Stumpjumper drop-bar conversion with bar-end shifters and full-length fenders and 2" tires.