Shimano 105 3x10 shifting
02-19-19, 06:05 AM
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Shimano 105 3x10 shifting
My wife and I have a low end tandem that came with a 3x8 drivetrain. It had various low end front and rear derailleurs with Claris shifters. When I bought it, I knew that the components would be lower end but as with most of my bikes, I upgrade components as I go along. Cycling is a hobby but so is building bikes from the frame up. Most of my recent builds have been mountain bike related (Tandem too) with Shimano XTR/XT components but road components are a bit different which leads me to ask some questions.
On this tandem, I am running a Shimano 105 front derailleur as well as a Shimano 105 SGS long cage in the rear. In an 8 speed configuration, they've worked well enough. We are getting a new custom frame and are going to move components over from the old frame to the new frame. With the exception of the 3x8 components everything else is what we would normally want.
With Shimano 105 derailleurs, the easy choice is to pick up a ST-5700/5703 set of shifters, chain and 10 speed cassette. I've found Shimano road component prices have jumped a bit as of late so I'm always poking around at other options. I have considered doing the following
I would need an 11 speed cassette and chain.
I would need to verify that the hub on our wheelset would handle an 11 speed cassette.
I know that the 11 speed chain is a bit narrower so I am not sure how the 10 speed front derailleur would handle it.
How would the 11 speed chain hold up under tandem use?
How would a Deore XT 11 speed 11-42 cassette work?
Just mulling around some options.
Thoughts?
On this tandem, I am running a Shimano 105 front derailleur as well as a Shimano 105 SGS long cage in the rear. In an 8 speed configuration, they've worked well enough. We are getting a new custom frame and are going to move components over from the old frame to the new frame. With the exception of the 3x8 components everything else is what we would normally want.
With Shimano 105 derailleurs, the easy choice is to pick up a ST-5700/5703 set of shifters, chain and 10 speed cassette. I've found Shimano road component prices have jumped a bit as of late so I'm always poking around at other options. I have considered doing the following
- ST-5703 Shimano 105 triple shift lever.
- ST-5800 Shimano 11 speed shift lever.
I would need an 11 speed cassette and chain.
I would need to verify that the hub on our wheelset would handle an 11 speed cassette.
I know that the 11 speed chain is a bit narrower so I am not sure how the 10 speed front derailleur would handle it.
How would the 11 speed chain hold up under tandem use?
How would a Deore XT 11 speed 11-42 cassette work?
Just mulling around some options.
Thoughts?
02-19-19, 07:05 AM
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What exactly are you asking? as you have mention 5800 and 5703 together, 5800 is 11 speed 2x only, 5703 is 10 speed 3x.
For either, they are now both long OOP, 5703 years ago, 5800 last year, unless you really need to get obsolete kit would always go with the current, in this case, R7000
If you went 11 speed, you would need an 11-speed compatible freehub, and you couldn't run a triple at the front
For the 11-42, you would need to look at something like a roadlink, but before doing that, would be looking at the ratios available with standard road parts, 11 speed has an 11-34 cassette which will work with no modification, would look at this and chainring options.
For either, they are now both long OOP, 5703 years ago, 5800 last year, unless you really need to get obsolete kit would always go with the current, in this case, R7000
If you went 11 speed, you would need an 11-speed compatible freehub, and you couldn't run a triple at the front
For the 11-42, you would need to look at something like a roadlink, but before doing that, would be looking at the ratios available with standard road parts, 11 speed has an 11-34 cassette which will work with no modification, would look at this and chainring options.
02-19-19, 07:45 AM
#3
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What exactly are you asking? as you have mention 5800 and 5703 together, 5800 is 11 speed 2x only, 5703 is 10 speed 3x.
For either, they are now both long OOP, 5703 years ago, 5800 last year, unless you really need to get obsolete kit would always go with the current, in this case, R7000
If you went 11 speed, you would need an 11-speed compatible freehub, and you couldn't run a triple at the front
For the 11-42, you would need to look at something like a roadlink, but before doing that, would be looking at the ratios available with standard road parts, 11 speed has an 11-34 cassette which will work with no modification, would look at this and chainring options.
For either, they are now both long OOP, 5703 years ago, 5800 last year, unless you really need to get obsolete kit would always go with the current, in this case, R7000
If you went 11 speed, you would need an 11-speed compatible freehub, and you couldn't run a triple at the front
For the 11-42, you would need to look at something like a roadlink, but before doing that, would be looking at the ratios available with standard road parts, 11 speed has an 11-34 cassette which will work with no modification, would look at this and chainring options.
If you're set on 105 or above, you're committed to buying an obsolete groupset. In that case, you could go down the 5703 route although some users experienced issues with high cable friction and broken shifters with this groupset. Instead, but even more difficult to find, you could go for a 5603 groupset (non-handlebar routed shifter cables) or equivalent Ultegra 6603. I still run two 6603 grousets - Ultegra 10s chains and cassettes are still widely available (and cheap enough) and I think the performance of the groupset as a whole is excellent. I stocked up on spares years ago though, so I'm set for a good few years.
I'd start by searching eBay for NOS shifters and mechs. Once you have those, you can buy the relevant chains, cassettes and brake calipers far more easily. Also make sure you can source replacement chainrings and stockpile a few of them if possible.
Good luck!
02-19-19, 09:12 AM
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I know that the 3x10 105 is no longer in production but I have several sources for a set of NOS ST57XX shifters. I looked into ST-6603 but most available are used. Microshift has a 3x10 offering but, yeah... It's Microshift.
My road bike and all of my mountain and bikepacking bikes are 2x10 builds. Those make sense because I am the one providing all of the power. For our tandem though, I want to stay with the triple because, number 1, I already have the crankset, which was pricey, and number 2 my stoker is not the strongest rider. If you've ever ridden a tandem with a weak stoker you can understand the need for low end gearing and where we live it is a necessity. I keep my stoker happy and part of that is not having to kill myself on every hill.
My question was regarding the use of a 105 ST-5800 11 speed shifter and 11 speed cassette for the rear portion of the drivetrain while using a 105 ST-5703 triple shifter with a 105 triple derailleur for the front portion of the drivetrain. Yes, the ST-58xx series is a 2x11 drivetrain but from the perspective of the rear portion of the drivetrain, what is up front should make little difference
The only factors that I see coming into play are that the cross chain angle is very slightly higher due to cassette widths (37.2mm for a 10 speed and 38.7mm for an 11 speed) and the narrow chain might not play the best with a front derailleur designed for a slightly wider (.38mm) 10 speed chain.
Having an extra step in there might be nice. Is it worth the effort? Probably not. Just more of a what if scenario.
My road bike and all of my mountain and bikepacking bikes are 2x10 builds. Those make sense because I am the one providing all of the power. For our tandem though, I want to stay with the triple because, number 1, I already have the crankset, which was pricey, and number 2 my stoker is not the strongest rider. If you've ever ridden a tandem with a weak stoker you can understand the need for low end gearing and where we live it is a necessity. I keep my stoker happy and part of that is not having to kill myself on every hill.
My question was regarding the use of a 105 ST-5800 11 speed shifter and 11 speed cassette for the rear portion of the drivetrain while using a 105 ST-5703 triple shifter with a 105 triple derailleur for the front portion of the drivetrain. Yes, the ST-58xx series is a 2x11 drivetrain but from the perspective of the rear portion of the drivetrain, what is up front should make little difference
The only factors that I see coming into play are that the cross chain angle is very slightly higher due to cassette widths (37.2mm for a 10 speed and 38.7mm for an 11 speed) and the narrow chain might not play the best with a front derailleur designed for a slightly wider (.38mm) 10 speed chain.
Having an extra step in there might be nice. Is it worth the effort? Probably not. Just more of a what if scenario.
02-19-19, 10:42 AM
#5
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1) tandem the added cable length will always be an issue and indexing is very dependent on lowest compression in housing
Given, control on front and action on the opposite end of long cable ..
8 is a wider spacing back there , adding more 'speeds', narrows that, so, every adjustment becomes more fussy,
I would consider the benefits of the bump up to Di2 electronic shifting will be a good thing on a tandem.., considering 1)..
...
Given, control on front and action on the opposite end of long cable ..
8 is a wider spacing back there , adding more 'speeds', narrows that, so, every adjustment becomes more fussy,
I would consider the benefits of the bump up to Di2 electronic shifting will be a good thing on a tandem.., considering 1)..
...
02-19-19, 12:00 PM
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Your original plan to use 11 speed out back and 10 speed triple up front is a good one. Everything will play together nicely, and there are 11 speed cassettes that fit on 10 speed freehubs...and if I recall correctly those cassettes are all big cog combinations.
11 speed chain is reliable enough for MTB applications, so it should be fine for a tandem, especially with a weak stoker.
Only problem I see is going larger than about a 36 rear cog with a long cage 5800 RD. They are rated for, I think, a 32 max but Shimano is usually fairly comservative with regard to that spec and you can always play with chain tension and axle placement to get another tooth or three. Do some research to see which series of Deore/XT RD's have the same cable pull as road shifters, as some of them may give you the ability to run the 42 you desire.
11 speed chain is reliable enough for MTB applications, so it should be fine for a tandem, especially with a weak stoker.
Only problem I see is going larger than about a 36 rear cog with a long cage 5800 RD. They are rated for, I think, a 32 max but Shimano is usually fairly comservative with regard to that spec and you can always play with chain tension and axle placement to get another tooth or three. Do some research to see which series of Deore/XT RD's have the same cable pull as road shifters, as some of them may give you the ability to run the 42 you desire.
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