Mystery Meat 1
#1
WGB
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 2,924
Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1803 Post(s)
Liked 2,338 Times
in
1,380 Posts
Mystery Meat 1
Two bikes so two threads
Just like at school or in the army - you can't turn it down but you wonder what the hell it is. Well, at least here they look pretty damn good but I have no idea what they are under the bling.
Back story - Owner dies last year at 72 and estate up for sale. He was a pack rat who saved Brooks seats and seats that would make a dollar store clerk laugh. He had mason jars filled with rusted components and bundles of cheap steel seat posts, but, he had some nice stuff also.
Bikes are very dusty but minimal rust and will clean up very well
1st bike, (Aka: "Flat Bar bike")
No name - no stickers
Owner replaced the Cinelli bars (which he kept, even wrapping up the brake cables) with cheap black flat bars
Brake levers are CLB
Actual brakes are Dura-Ace
RD is a Crane
FD and Cranks are Campagnolo (No idea what model cranks)
Serial number 69963
Laprade seat post
So What is it????
Just like at school or in the army - you can't turn it down but you wonder what the hell it is. Well, at least here they look pretty damn good but I have no idea what they are under the bling.
Back story - Owner dies last year at 72 and estate up for sale. He was a pack rat who saved Brooks seats and seats that would make a dollar store clerk laugh. He had mason jars filled with rusted components and bundles of cheap steel seat posts, but, he had some nice stuff also.
Bikes are very dusty but minimal rust and will clean up very well
1st bike, (Aka: "Flat Bar bike")
No name - no stickers
Owner replaced the Cinelli bars (which he kept, even wrapping up the brake cables) with cheap black flat bars
Brake levers are CLB
Actual brakes are Dura-Ace
RD is a Crane
FD and Cranks are Campagnolo (No idea what model cranks)
Serial number 69963
Laprade seat post
So What is it????
Last edited by WGB; 02-22-19 at 09:39 PM. Reason: detail
#2
WGB
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 2,924
Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1803 Post(s)
Liked 2,338 Times
in
1,380 Posts
Only ten photos per post so two more
The generator located behind the BB is a nice touch
Last photo - He taped the frame to prevent scratches caused by the kick stand.
The generator located behind the BB is a nice touch
Last photo - He taped the frame to prevent scratches caused by the kick stand.
#3
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Campbell River BC
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked 331 Times
in
141 Posts
I can,t help with id but i do know that it is hard to id frame from components. The guys with lots of experience like photos of all the frame details,cheers
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,499
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1645 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 838 Times
in
546 Posts
Simplex DO's point towards the bike, being French...
Maybe a Peugeot, as also the rear brake bridge that do not have reinforcing tabs and the domed stay ends at the DO's seems to suggest.
Maybe a Peugeot, as also the rear brake bridge that do not have reinforcing tabs and the domed stay ends at the DO's seems to suggest.
#6
Bianchi Goddess
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,882
Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.
Mentioned: 194 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2942 Post(s)
Liked 2,947 Times
in
1,503 Posts
Do you know what size the seat post is? Can you read the threading on the BB cups? Any pics of the head luggs?
Did Cineli ever make the smaller French size stems? What is a 2.21 or something?
Did Cineli ever make the smaller French size stems? What is a 2.21 or something?
__________________
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,891
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1861 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
507 Posts
The build is a total mash-up of serviceable functional and high-quality parts. It's not possible to deduce frame brand from parts - anything could have been done. The frame is clearly from between mid-1970s up to perhaps 2005 because of its traditional construction, lugs, DT brazeons. But we see no details of lugs, other frame details, fork crown, fork blade/chainstay/seatstay end treatments, tubing, et cetera et cetera et cetera. Subsequent photos need to be much higher quality in resolution and lighting. These are adequate if you want to sell parts, "FS: Generic steel ??? frame with parts - collectible???"
It's probably: owner found frame, owner had parts, owner said "let's make this rideable," attached parts-on-hand to frame. Zero traceability to origin. You have what looks like a good rider, if it fits you. If it doesn't, some of those parts have some value. For example I would be interested in the Dynapower and all its bits, the CLB levers, and perhaps the wheels if the pics were better. Maybe the headset if you could identify it and its threading.
It's probably: owner found frame, owner had parts, owner said "let's make this rideable," attached parts-on-hand to frame. Zero traceability to origin. You have what looks like a good rider, if it fits you. If it doesn't, some of those parts have some value. For example I would be interested in the Dynapower and all its bits, the CLB levers, and perhaps the wheels if the pics were better. Maybe the headset if you could identify it and its threading.
Last edited by Road Fan; 02-23-19 at 07:34 AM.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,891
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1861 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
507 Posts
I would not be surprised if Cinelli did make French sizings - they were Italian but not strictly Italian market. And I think those bars are rather old, the photo does not seem to indicate the engravings. But the vaguely-visible "Cinelli" looks like a rather modern logo style, so I think those bars were just "what was in the closet." Nothing to indicate stem or bar clamp sizings.
Last edited by Road Fan; 02-23-19 at 07:31 AM.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,891
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1861 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
507 Posts
I missed the direct-brazed seatstay bridge - an upper-midrange frame, not a high-end frame. And the domed SS ends are nicely done, as is the paint at that point.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,499
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1645 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 838 Times
in
546 Posts
Easy to tell if a Cinelli stem is French size as Cinelli drills a dimple on the stem shaft, below the insertion minimum line to denote French sized stems.
#11
WGB
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 2,924
Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1803 Post(s)
Liked 2,338 Times
in
1,380 Posts
Sorry for the lack of detail I used a cell phone and was exhausted, had been a long day.
Seat post is 26mm.
BB detail - Recessed so will have to remove to measure accurately
Detail of Headtube Crown race has no name
Trim top of forks
Seatpost cluster Couldn't get photo to stay turned!
Simplex drop outs
Seat post is 26mm.
BB detail - Recessed so will have to remove to measure accurately
Detail of Headtube Crown race has no name
Trim top of forks
Seatpost cluster Couldn't get photo to stay turned!
Simplex drop outs
#12
WGB
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 2,924
Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1803 Post(s)
Liked 2,338 Times
in
1,380 Posts
Perhaps now I have a clue.
Headtube shows that at one pint it had a badge with three points of attachment. Laying on work bench I found a Calton cycle works headbadge. Will check and see if it has three holes
Headtube shows that at one pint it had a badge with three points of attachment. Laying on work bench I found a Calton cycle works headbadge. Will check and see if it has three holes
#13
Bikes are okay, I guess.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,938
Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2647 Post(s)
Liked 2,446 Times
in
1,557 Posts
PX-10! Somebody had to say it and eventually would have, not that I think that's what it is.
#14
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,711 Times
in
2,530 Posts
looks like a PX10 to me too
#15
Senior Member
#16
WGB
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 2,924
Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1803 Post(s)
Liked 2,338 Times
in
1,380 Posts
Sorry - should have said headtube has initials RB stamped into it between 2nd and 3rd holes.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 656 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,041 Times
in
1,879 Posts
Assuming the post is correctly sized for the frame, 26.0mm is too small for a PX-10. I'd have expected 26.4 - 26.6mm. However, it is the correct size for a metric plain gauge Reynolds 531 seat tube.
The original owner owner date of passing seems to be suspicious, given that the dropouts appear to the 2nd version of the Simplex dropout that was introduced in very late 1972, for the 1973 model year. Also, it has even later Dura-Ace calipers and what appears to be a (Shimano?) cartridge BB. I don't recall them being available in French threading, so maybe it's Velo Orange?
The original owner owner date of passing seems to be suspicious, given that the dropouts appear to the 2nd version of the Simplex dropout that was introduced in very late 1972, for the 1973 model year. Also, it has even later Dura-Ace calipers and what appears to be a (Shimano?) cartridge BB. I don't recall them being available in French threading, so maybe it's Velo Orange?
#18
WGB
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 2,924
Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1803 Post(s)
Liked 2,338 Times
in
1,380 Posts
There was a Carlton headbadge sitting there so I got that thrown in and wonder if the bage is for this bike??? Have to check if it has three holes on rear.
I was thrown off by the hole in the bottom. To allow water to drain? To add grease?
I was thrown off by the hole in the bottom. To allow water to drain? To add grease?
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 1,456
Bikes: 1970s Alex Singer, 1960s Peugeot PX 10, 1960s Bertin C37, 1973 Carre Bertin C 37, 1972 Carlton Kermesse, 1981 Peugeot PX 14 Super Competition
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 346 Post(s)
Liked 266 Times
in
157 Posts
WGB-
I'm betting this is an early 70's Peugeot PX 10 based on the lugs, dropouts, head badge hole pattern and the 26 mm seatpost. The non-Simplex replacement post is under sized for the frame. The other bike (#2) is a Carlton based on the crown, dropouts and seat cluster treatment, perhaps a Contre le Montre.
I'm betting this is an early 70's Peugeot PX 10 based on the lugs, dropouts, head badge hole pattern and the 26 mm seatpost. The non-Simplex replacement post is under sized for the frame. The other bike (#2) is a Carlton based on the crown, dropouts and seat cluster treatment, perhaps a Contre le Montre.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 1,456
Bikes: 1970s Alex Singer, 1960s Peugeot PX 10, 1960s Bertin C37, 1973 Carre Bertin C 37, 1972 Carlton Kermesse, 1981 Peugeot PX 14 Super Competition
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 346 Post(s)
Liked 266 Times
in
157 Posts
WGB-
Wrong on #2 . That's a replacement Tange fork. The wrapover stay tops look more Falcon or, possibly, Holdsworth than the capped versions on a Contre le Montre.
Wrong on #2 . That's a replacement Tange fork. The wrapover stay tops look more Falcon or, possibly, Holdsworth than the capped versions on a Contre le Montre.
#21
WGB
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 2,924
Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1803 Post(s)
Liked 2,338 Times
in
1,380 Posts
I should post that the PO for these bikes was into cycling for a long time and per neighbors when he got cancer he got rid of his "good bikes". He had a very nice looking older mountain bike for a winter bike which was also rust free and that he rode regularly until he couldn't ride anymore, Since we use alot of salt here that is saying something. There were a bunch of old bars some marked GB and some Mafac brakes, various pumps and a stripped Bianchi frame. As an example I saw this Brooks seat. dusty and crusted and brought it home and all I did was wipe down top with dry cloth, then damp cloth. I was fast running out of cash and had to make some decisions and I chose the two I chose.
Apparently he was a go to guy for bike repairs and a jack of all trades. into bicycles, motorcycle and cars. I saw old school torches and solder but there was so much clutter and I had only a bit of time to process everything I saw. Part of me is wondering if he built these bikes from scratch, buying the lugs and tubes and brazing.
Apparently he was a go to guy for bike repairs and a jack of all trades. into bicycles, motorcycle and cars. I saw old school torches and solder but there was so much clutter and I had only a bit of time to process everything I saw. Part of me is wondering if he built these bikes from scratch, buying the lugs and tubes and brazing.
#22
WGB
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 2,924
Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1803 Post(s)
Liked 2,338 Times
in
1,380 Posts
Bertinjim - therre was a a spare fork there! I will Pm seller and see if she can set aside.
#23
Senior Member
WGB-
I'm betting this is an early 70's Peugeot PX 10 based on the lugs, dropouts, head badge hole pattern and the 26 mm seatpost. The non-Simplex replacement post is under sized for the frame. The other bike (#2) is a Carlton based on the crown, dropouts and seat cluster treatment, perhaps a Contre le Montre.
I'm betting this is an early 70's Peugeot PX 10 based on the lugs, dropouts, head badge hole pattern and the 26 mm seatpost. The non-Simplex replacement post is under sized for the frame. The other bike (#2) is a Carlton based on the crown, dropouts and seat cluster treatment, perhaps a Contre le Montre.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,302
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3821 Post(s)
Liked 3,368 Times
in
2,197 Posts
-----
Appears Monsieur Philippe Bois is abiding within the shell.
-----
Appears Monsieur Philippe Bois is abiding within the shell.
-----