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Three reasons why Americans aren’t upgrading their phones

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Three reasons why Americans aren’t upgrading their phones

Old 05-19-19, 06:36 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Difference being...phones are now pocket computers and internet terminals, that can do almost anything--particularly when they can interface with other gadgets (IoT, car headunits, TV remotes etc.). That doesn't mean that costing more than a mortgage payment isn't unreasonable, ofc.

Whereas a microwave (or most any other appliance), is always and will forever just be something you cook food with that does an unglamorous job....unless you spring for stainless steel enclosure--then it glamorously does an unglamorous job
.. but they are trying to regain relevance.

https://www.geappliances.com/ge/conn...wave-ovens.htm
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Old 05-19-19, 06:36 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
I can find the kind that go over the range and regular ones FREE on Craigslist. Why bother?
You can also send carrier pigeons too. What about smoke signals, or good old semaphore?
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Old 05-19-19, 06:44 PM
  #28  
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The issue is that there's no new killer app. What that means is there's no big new feature that we have to have because it will change how we live our lives, and cannot be accomplished with existing phone technology.

Early smart phones had this; they provided something that really didn't exist previously; a little computer you carry in your pocket, always connected to the Internet, and always connected to the world. But early smart phones had small screens, anemic memory, and other limitations. They were slow, and not much capacity.

But since about 2015/2016 smart phones haven't changed that much. They matured enough to be highly useful without suddenly becoming obsolete. Sure, marketing folks would like you to consider them obsolete, but a smart phone in 2019 does pretty much all the same things that a smart phone in 2015 did. Maybe with a slightly larger screen, thinner bezel, better fingerprint scanner, and so on. But both models surf the web the same, get the news the same, interact with Facebook and Twitter the same, post to Instagram the same, take good enough pictures for social media, etc.

Until there is a new use case that requires a hot new feature, and that use case isn't possible with current technology, the market will probably slump a bit.
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Old 05-19-19, 07:55 PM
  #29  
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I only replace a phone or computer when there is an advantage for my use/needs. I feel i’ve easily gotten my moneys worth from the few apple (and only apple) computers and phones i’ve bought over the years, especially with there ease of use and function for both MY personal and work use/needs.
I also find those who obsess over the choices other people make because they are just too attached to the way they think things should be, as just unfortunate for them….. “‘truth waits for eyes unclouded”
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Old 05-19-19, 10:27 PM
  #30  
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My last phone upgrade was necessary because of work.

I would consider paying the (absurd) among price for a Huawei Mate 30. Their cameras are the best available in phones. People are shooting the Milky Way with them. The best camera is the one you have with you. Yesterday I wished I had my 5D but chose to leave it behind because of the likelihood of a fall, and what an SLR would do to me if I landed on it. In any case, this is an example of innovation and value:

President Trump issued an executive orderlast week banning "foreign adversaries" from doing telecommunication business in the US. The move was widely understood as a ban on Huawei products, and now we're starting to see the fallout. According to a report from Reuters, Google has "suspended" business with Huawei, and the company will be locked out of Google's Android ecosystem. It's the ZTE ban all over again.

Reuters details the fallout from Trump's order, saying "Huawei Technologies Co Ltd will immediately lose access to updates to the Android operating system, and the next version of its smartphones outside of China will also lose access to popular applications and services including the Google Play Store and Gmail app."

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...y-store/?amp=1
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Old 05-19-19, 11:17 PM
  #31  
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The US government banned the use of Huawei networking equipment in 2012, and the use or sale of their phones on military installations in April of 2018. The FBI has directly called Huawei a threat. So nothing we're seeing right now is any surprise.
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Old 05-20-19, 03:42 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
My last phone upgrade was necessary because of work.

I would consider paying the (absurd) among price for a Huawei Mate 30. Their cameras are the best available in phones. People are shooting the Milky Way with them. The best camera is the one you have with you. Yesterday I wished I had my 5D but chose to leave it behind because of the likelihood of a fall, and what an SLR would do to me if I landed on it. In any case, this is an example of innovation and value:

President Trump issued an executive orderlast week banning "foreign adversaries" from doing telecommunication business in the US. The move was widely understood as a ban on Huawei products, and now we're starting to see the fallout. According to a report from Reuters, Google has "suspended" business with Huawei, and the company will be locked out of Google's Android ecosystem. It's the ZTE ban all over again.

Reuters details the fallout from Trump's order, saying "Huawei Technologies Co Ltd will immediately lose access to updates to the Android operating system, and the next version of its smartphones outside of China will also lose access to popular applications and services including the Google Play Store and Gmail app."

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...y-store/?amp=1
The only place where they went wrong...was not admitting what they were doing in an EULA/TOS.Seriously. What they did would be shady and unethical, but could have been covered with an EULA/TOS.

Microsoft's "telemetry" spyware in Windows 10 that relays everything you do home to MS (keystrokes, apps and their usage, you name it)? Never mind "assistant" software that phones everything home? Smart appliances that phone everything home? Spyware is 100% legal in the US, so long as you admit to doing it in legalese no one ever reads. Thgis is one of those stories that is easy to get righteous indignation over--but our own tech corporate oligarchy is allowed to do the same thing every day of the week.
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Old 05-20-19, 05:38 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
The only place where they went wrong...was not admitting what they were doing in an EULA/TOS.Seriously. What they did would be shady and unethical, but could have been covered with an EULA/TOS.

Microsoft's "telemetry" spyware in Windows 10 that relays everything you do home to MS (keystrokes, apps and their usage, you name it)? Never mind "assistant" software that phones everything home? Smart appliances that phone everything home? Spyware is 100% legal in the US, so long as you admit to doing it in legalese no one ever reads. Thgis is one of those stories that is easy to get righteous indignation over--but our own tech corporate oligarchy is allowed to do the same thing every day of the week.
I wonder if all that can be disabled... by company IT folks worried about industrial spying, or by government agencies worried about security.

And if that is possible, can a user at the admin level also turn it off.

I know right now there are several items I cannot control on my work PC, and I get the message "your organization administrators these features for you."

Could it be that Huawei has hard coded features in their chipsets, that can't be turned off at the admin level... and they won't admit it, but those "features" have been discovered by US Agencies?
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Old 05-20-19, 06:28 AM
  #34  
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I don't even want the one I've got, but people insist on having some way of contacting me, so I keep it. I don't see any need to replace it while it still works. I have thought of downgrading to a "dumb" flip-phone, because I hate Google, but I just can't be bothered.

Basically, I don't spend much time thinking about phones, unlike the vast majority of the American population, which seems to be fascinated by them. I had a surreal experience a while back, when I was riding through the park here in town, on a beautiful day. There were lots of people outside, but every single person I passed (men, women, children) were staring at their phones or tablets. It was freaky, I felt like I was in an episode of "Black Mirror" or something.
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Old 05-20-19, 06:35 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
I wonder if all that can be disabled... by company IT folks worried about industrial spying, or by government agencies worried about security.

And if that is possible, can a user at the admin level also turn it off.

I know right now there are several items I cannot control on my work PC, and I get the message "your organization administrators these features for you."

Could it be that Huawei has hard coded features in their chipsets, that can't be turned off at the admin level... and they won't admit it, but those "features" have been discovered by US Agencies?
It wasn't just Huawei, it was also ZTE, and SuperMicro that we KNOW of. And what they did was, many things, that all fall under the category of "spyware" or "espionage" both governmental and corporate. Huawei is generally only known for its phones. Whereas ZTE and SuperMicro most people on this side of the Pacific have never heard of, outside of those with an interest in IT--they do lots of corporate server-related stuff. SuperMicro is actually a US-based company. The story got unearthed in Silicon Valley--where SuperMicro is based, with aforesaid SuperMicro. They specialize in server/data-center type hardware and solutions. They are a very successful company, that made waves...of course although they were "based" in the USA, like Apple everything was actually produced in China by subcontractors.

Well, TL;DR..."illegal leakers" or "whistle-blowers", depending on your POV, working for of all people Amazon were doing hardware review... around 2018 tattled to Bloomberg their hardware-backdoor discovery who in turn investigated and found that the Chinese People's Army had forced the subcontractors SuperMicro was using to add physical hardware-backdoor chips to the server blades SuperMicro were producing/selling to others as well as the ones they themselves used in their own server farms....Which sounds bad, but is actually worse--because SuperMicro's list of clients includes the Pentagon, C.I.A., and other big-military/intelligence alphabet soup agencies nevermind corporations (Amazon, Apple, etc.). The subcontractor bit is important--because it (maybe? AFAIK?) absolves Supermicro just enough to just get them labeled as "stupid idiots for being too trusting" as opposed to being "foreign assets who should be charged with high treason".


....Well the People's Army hadn't just done this to SuperMicro's contractors, they did it to (probably) most of the computer hardware producing business in-country. Which well, is basically all the computer hardware producing business period. Although Apple claims it didn't happen to them--yea right, they subcontract out to Hon Hai AKA FoxConn in China. And, probably, Huawei and ZTE knew what was going on-being located in country and having the Chinese Army putting their backs to a wall. While SuperMicro were just "stupid idiots", Huawei and ZTE were all but certainly knowingly complicit.


Of course....the problem elephant in the room....all our Silicon Valley glorious ultra-profitable companies took basically all their production over to China in search of high corporate profits. You cannot buy anything now with a PCB that wasn't made there either in whole or part. So while putting Huawei to the gridstone might feel righteously good, it solves nothing. Also, if you go on the Android app store--you'll find LOTS of app software that is spyware that Google has never curated or removed--some of which has been known to be malicious for half-a-decade and is still there (ES File Explorer for example, and well anything made by a company called Cheetah Mobile)

Last edited by Marcus_Ti; 05-20-19 at 06:39 AM.
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Old 05-20-19, 07:36 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by roadfix View Post
I depend on members of my family upgrading. All my iPhones have been hand-me-downs. Never spent a dime on an iPhone. I'm good with that.
I got my iPhone 7 from my employer two years ago. My phone works fine. My employer pays the bill. Not even thinking about upgrading.
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Old 05-20-19, 09:30 AM
  #37  
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I had to replace my six year old TracPhone LG108C because Verizon is curtailing its 2G service for such phones. Original cost was about $20.


Had to upgrade to a flip phone Alactel MyFlip, cost $5 from TracPhone. It serves the same purpose I have for a phone - voice, timepiece/calendar and text messages, and fits in any pocket in my pants, jacket or shirt. Also works off the Verizon network which works best at my home.
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Old 05-20-19, 10:32 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Had to upgrade to a flip phone Alactel MyFlip.
I would call that an upgrade. I have da same phone but from Tmobile, and I'm ambivalent about it.

The good is that it is non-Android...so Google cannot spy on us. And it is easy to use like other flip phones.

The bad is that this is the dimensionally biggest flip phone I've ever own. It uncomfortably large in my pocket. I also don't like the short battery life...i have to recharge everyday.

The best phone I ever had was an old Nokia candy bar 2G phone. Very small, comfortable in my pocket. Sounds good. Long battery life. Too bad no body make such a product no more.

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Old 05-20-19, 10:54 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
I also don't like the battery life...i am recharging this Alcatel everyday. I could go for a few days on my old Samsung on a single charge.
I only need to recharge my Alcatel flip phone every 10-14 days, depending on voice use. Takes about 90 minutes.
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Old 05-20-19, 10:56 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I only need to recharge my Alcatel flip phone every 10-14 days, depending on voice use. Takes about 90 minutes.
Amazing. I wonder why mine uses so much juice. It has always been this way. And I always turn off WIFI and hotspot.

Even if no one calls me and I don't use the phone, the battery drop about 25% per day. So theorteically, absolute longest the battery can last is 4 days.

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Old 05-20-19, 11:28 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I had to replace my six year old TracPhone LG108C because Verizon is curtailing its 2G service for such phones. Original cost was about $20.
Had to upgrade to a flip phone Alactel MyFlip, cost $5 from TracPhone. It serves the same purpose I have for a phone - voice, timepiece/calendar and text messages, and fits in any pocket in my pants, jacket or shirt. Also works off the Verizon network which works best at my home.
LOL you beat me to it! I'm still rockin my LG 440G

which cost me like $5 at walmart.

If my company wants to pay for it, I would be willing to upgrade to a realio trulio smartphone. I might even use it once in a while, for email and GPS. The flip lives in the bottom of my kittier, turned off. I turn it on for outgoing calls (usually calling home from the grocery store), or by appointment.

Battery life seems great. As I said I usually leave it off and don't use it, but if I left it on and didn't use it, I bet it would last a week.
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Old 05-20-19, 11:40 AM
  #42  
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The only reason my wife is getting a new phone is that her (and mostly the kids) broke the screen and only the screen protector is holding it together now. It's a just over 2-year-old refurb Moto G4. I might get the glass replaced once I give her the new phone and keep it as a spare.

My LG G5 has a replaceable battery, so when it hits 2 this summer, I'll just slap in a new battery and keep it as long as possible.
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Old 05-20-19, 01:18 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
It wasn't just Huawei, it was also ZTE, and SuperMicro that we KNOW of. And what they did was, many things, that all fall under the category of "spyware" or "espionage" both governmental and corporate. Huawei is generally only known for its phones. Whereas ZTE and SuperMicro most people on this side of the Pacific have never heard of, outside of those with an interest in IT--they do lots of corporate server-related stuff. SuperMicro is actually a US-based company. The story got unearthed in Silicon Valley--where SuperMicro is based, with aforesaid SuperMicro. They specialize in server/data-center type hardware and solutions. They are a very successful company, that made waves...of course although they were "based" in the USA, like Apple everything was actually produced in China by subcontractors.

Well, TL;DR..."illegal leakers" or "whistle-blowers", depending on your POV, working for of all people Amazon were doing hardware review... around 2018 tattled to Bloomberg their hardware-backdoor discovery who in turn investigated and found that the Chinese People's Army had forced the subcontractors SuperMicro was using to add physical hardware-backdoor chips to the server blades SuperMicro were producing/selling to others as well as the ones they themselves used in their own server farms....Which sounds bad, but is actually worse--because SuperMicro's list of clients includes the Pentagon, C.I.A., and other big-military/intelligence alphabet soup agencies nevermind corporations (Amazon, Apple, etc.). The subcontractor bit is important--because it (maybe? AFAIK?) absolves Supermicro just enough to just get them labeled as "stupid idiots for being too trusting" as opposed to being "foreign assets who should be charged with high treason".


....Well the People's Army hadn't just done this to SuperMicro's contractors, they did it to (probably) most of the computer hardware producing business in-country. Which well, is basically all the computer hardware producing business period. Although Apple claims it didn't happen to them--yea right, they subcontract out to Hon Hai AKA FoxConn in China. And, probably, Huawei and ZTE knew what was going on-being located in country and having the Chinese Army putting their backs to a wall. While SuperMicro were just "stupid idiots", Huawei and ZTE were all but certainly knowingly complicit.


Of course....the problem elephant in the room....all our Silicon Valley glorious ultra-profitable companies took basically all their production over to China in search of high corporate profits. You cannot buy anything now with a PCB that wasn't made there either in whole or part. So while putting Huawei to the gridstone might feel righteously good, it solves nothing. Also, if you go on the Android app store--you'll find LOTS of app software that is spyware that Google has never curated or removed--some of which has been known to be malicious for half-a-decade and is still there (ES File Explorer for example, and well anything made by a company called Cheetah Mobile)
We basically gave away the farm by throwing all dense PWB fabrication and silicon die fabrication offshore... Of course the OEMs complain that it was too expensive to upgrade facilities here to meet environmental standards.... which is really code for "let them ruin the planet," and "the CEO and board all want new boats."

Think any of that is coming back here?
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Old 05-20-19, 01:27 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
LOL you beat me to it! I'm still rockin my LG 440G

which cost me like $5 at walmart.

If my company wants to pay for it, I would be willing to upgrade to a realio trulio smartphone. I might even use it once in a while, for email and GPS. The flip lives in the bottom of my kittier, turned off. I turn it on for outgoing calls (usually calling home from the grocery store), or by appointment.

Battery life seems great. As I said I usually leave it off and don't use it, but if I left it on and didn't use it, I bet it would last a week.
My hand held computer has served me well while on the road... and yes, I can replace the battery myself, and it IS waterproof... more so than those old flip phones. And yeah, I have ultra powersave mode, that essentially turns it into one of those "old phones." The screen goes B&W, and all the fancy stuff shuts down, so it becomes "just a phone... " Battery life... about 2 weeks!

(Oh, and it still has a 3.5 mm audio jack)
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Old 05-20-19, 01:38 PM
  #45  
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My hand held computer has served me well while on the road...
When traveling is the only time I feel the lack of a smartphone. But I only travel for work 1-2 times a year. If I'm by myself it's no big deal. But last year I went to a conference with half a dozen others from work, and it was a major pain trying to coordinate with them where we were going for dinner, or getting to/from the airport because I couldn't order my own uber.

Originally Posted by genec View Post
(Oh, and it still has a 3.5 mm audio jack)
lol I just checked and mine does not have an audio jack! It has bluetooth, but I'm not about to spend money on bluetooth headphones.
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Old 05-20-19, 01:42 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
When traveling is the only time I feel the lack of a smartphone.
My Alcatel Flip phone can do hotspot'ing. So eventhough it cannot run Apps, it can turn itself into a Wifi station. Then, I have internet access via my Ipad.

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Old 05-21-19, 10:47 AM
  #47  
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This Huawei thing looks like bad news for everybody involved.
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Old 05-21-19, 12:31 PM
  #48  
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Trump has got China's tech industry by the balls. Not sure if Huawei will survive .
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Old 05-21-19, 01:25 PM
  #49  
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Or course they'll survive. There are a billion and a half people in China. What will probably happen is Trump will reverse course and claim to have saved the world. Failing that, another smartphone platform, which is a game everybody loses at.
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Old 05-21-19, 02:02 PM
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RubeRad
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
It has bluetooth, but I'm not about to spend money on bluetooth headphones.
First time ever the other day I bluetooth connected to it from my laptop and pulled some pictures off. (A couple times before, like this, I took a picture and texted it to a friend so he could email it back to me and I could have it)

So convenient! I have upwards of 10 photos on there that I couldn't access!
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