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This is why you don't leave your bike locked out of sight

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This is why you don't leave your bike locked out of sight

Old 06-02-19, 12:33 PM
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This is why you don't leave your bike locked out of sight

How good is your bike lock? Not very!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm9...rch?query=bike
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Old 06-02-19, 01:22 PM
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Much as I love the straightforward delivery of the LPL, I don't know how many bike thieves out there are qualified lockpicks, or are toting around a Ramset. Ever used a Ramset? I don't think anyone is stealing a bike off of the corner with one-- it sounds like a handgun going off, because it's basically a handgun going off. I have a .25cal driver and it's gunshot loud, as one would expect.
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Old 06-02-19, 05:45 PM
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This is why I leave my bike locked out of sight:



Most people who ride bikes for utilitarian reasons end up coming to grips with bike theft and security. No two cyclists arrive at exactly the same solution. For me, it works well enough to park my bike next to an expensive bike secured with a cable lock.
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Old 06-02-19, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by calstar View Post
How good is your bike lock? Not very!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm9...rch?query=bike
Ridiculous. No one is going to go though the trouble of picking a lock unless it is an awfully expensive bicycle. Locks are for the unprofessional thief. People like junkies and someone looking for a free ride, which makes up for the vast majority of who is out to get you bike. Use a decent lock and they will go look for easier targets.

Not sure if I would want to confront a pro stealing my bike (not that I would ride a bike they would want) . So keeping it in view just makes you feel a little better.

Fact is is someone wants your bike they are going to get it. If you can't afford to lose it then don't ride it.
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Old 06-02-19, 08:22 PM
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Lockpickinglawer has been known here for a while. It's incredible how he picks those locks.

Last edited by igorek; 06-02-19 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 06-03-19, 03:34 AM
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I use multiple locks with a value greater than my bike. If a thief decides to defeat all the locks despite an easier one to steal next to mine is welcome to it. xD
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Old 06-03-19, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
Ridiculous. No one is going to go though the trouble of picking a lock unless it is an awfully expensive bicycle. Locks are for the unprofessional thief. People like junkies and someone looking for a free ride, which makes up for the vast majority of who is out to get you bike. Use a decent lock and they will go look for easier targets.
+1. Several years ago I locked up my LHT with $400+ worth of racks on it next to a woman who was locking her older but still serviceable Trek road bike. I used a Kryptonite u-lock with thick cable for the rear wheel. She used some cheapo chain. This was outside a popular indoor market. I went to get a newspaper. As I was walking back to the market less than 10 min. later I saw some tweeker-looking dude riding away on her bike. He had a small duffel bag around his shoulder. Probably had his tools in it. Found the woman in the market and let her know what had happened. She said she had not felt like bringing her "good lock."
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Old 06-03-19, 06:38 AM
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The LPL picked a vintage Citadel u-lock in 10 seconds (with a specialized tool of the correct diameter & number of pins). My Citadel u-lock has been protecting my bikes from theft since 1978.
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Old 06-03-19, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
Fact is if someone wants your bike they are going to get it.
And I won't dispute that, but here's an interesting data point: this OnGuard Brute had one leg sawn through by a battery powered angle grinder, but apparently the battery pooped out as the thief was cutting through the other leg. The bike was still secured to the rack when the owner returned.



And here' the infamous LPL ruining the jaw blades of his hydraulic bolt cutter on the Brute:


Last edited by tcs; 06-03-19 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 06-03-19, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by igorek View Post
It's incredible how he picks those locks.
Note the lack of top spec Abus bike locks in his videos. Ditto the Pinhead Bubble lock and the Forever V.2 u-lock.

(BTW - All of these can be defeated with a powerful angle grinder with a big, fully charged battery. It'll take a while, make a heck of a lot of noise and create a shower of sparks, though.)

Last edited by tcs; 06-03-19 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 06-03-19, 06:56 AM
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I rode 157 miles over 10 hours of riding time (excluding breaks). Never locking my bike out of sight is just not practically possible for me.

Lock picking is a pretty specialized skill that takes some time to learn and acquire tools. There really aren't that many thieves who are going to make that investment when cutting is so much easier.
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Old 06-03-19, 07:06 AM
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I left my bike unlocked out of sight more than twice this weekend. No one messed with it. Maybe someone would have had I locked it?
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Old 06-03-19, 07:08 AM
  #13  
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At work we have a chain-link key card access bike lockup in the parking garage. Security does a walk-by every 30 minutes and must scan a QR code inside the cage. In the cage most of us leave U-locks to use. I keep an extra in my locker in case mine is messed up when I arrive.

The lockup is not infallible and I wouldn't leave it overnight, but during the day we have a good track record for avoiding theft. I mean a guy with bolt cutters could snip the cage's chain links in couple of minutes, on camera.
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Old 06-03-19, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Lock picking is a pretty specialized skill that takes some time to learn and acquire tools. There really aren't that many thieves who are going to make that investment when cutting is so much easier.
Yep. Consider the many different brands and models of bikes locks in the field, with different kinds & dimensions of locks that need different tools and techniques to pick. Then there are the smart (or paranoid) riders that use two different kinds of locks.

So much easier to cut some rider's Ottolock with tin snips:

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Old 06-03-19, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
And I won't dispute that, but here's an interesting data point: this OnGuard Brute had one leg sawn through by a battery powered angle grinder, but apparently the battery pooped out as the thief was cutting through the other leg.



And here' the infamous LPL ruining the jaw blades of his hydraulic bolt cutter on the Brute:

https://youtu.be/lvn3_CNVSFs
I had one of those locks and got rid of it because it was such a pain to carry around and use that it just stayed at home while I rode my centuries. I gave it to my son who used it on campus, and it rusted internally when he left it out in the weather. After 10 minutes of barely being able to unlock it after dousing it with WD 40 (the key could be made to turn with the application of a lot of force), I threw it away. I didn't trust it not to completely seize up at some point.
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Old 06-03-19, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I gave it to my son who used it on campus, and it rusted internally when he left it out in the weather.
Just like bicycles, locks have to be maintained.

Chain lube threads are usually good for 15 pages or so. I wonder if the same holds true about lock lubricants?

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Old 06-03-19, 08:58 AM
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Okay, I'll bite...I like graphite for lock lubrication:

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Old 06-03-19, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
Just like bicycles, locks have to be maintained.

Chain lube threads are usually good for 15 pages or so. I wonder if the same holds true about lock lubricants?

If it were me using it, that would be fine, but my son is not big on maintaining things, and the frame on his Specialized Roll made the lock a bad fit anyways.
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Old 06-03-19, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by calstar View Post
How good is your bike lock? Not very!
My take as a cyclist on lockpickinglawyer videos:

The good:
  1. He identifies some bike locks that are easily defeated by common tools. Some of these locks are relatively expensive and some are marketed with what upon evaluation can only be called misleading or erroneous claims.
  2. He identifies correctable weaknesses in some locks.
  3. He identifies some ways that a particular lock might provide better security than others on the market at the same cost and/or weight.
  4. He (inadvertently) shows that picking some locks requires specialized, sometimes expensive and occasionally custom tools in addition to significant skill. A lock-picking bike thief would need to specialize in stealing only bikes locked with a style of lock or even a particular brand and model of lock. This isn’t impossible, but it seems like a needlessly restrictive business plan vs. taking on any and all low hanging fruit with 18" bolt cutters.
  5. He’s put out ~900 videos and seems to thrive on ‘make it look easy’ success, yet there are some well known, commonly available bike locks he has never featured. Hmm.

The bad:
  1. He regularly violates the old lockpickers/DEFCON guideline of approaching a lock manufacturer first and offering them an opportunity to improve their product based on his findings (or at least change their marketing!) before going public.
  2. He regularly violates the old lockpickers/DEFCON guideline of only showing the general public/great unwashed that a lock can be defeated but not offering a step-by-step tutorial on how to defeat it including the tools required and where to get them.
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Old 06-03-19, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
My take as a cyclist on lockpickinglawyer videos:


The bad:

  1. He regularly violates the old lockpickers/DEFCON guideline of approaching a lock manufacturer first and offering them an opportunity to improve their product based on his findings (or at least change their marketing!) before going public.


The problem with this is that if he followed that rule, consumers would still be uninformed when buying the unimproved ones that were still in circulation. I don't feel bad for the manufacturers, some of this is testing that should have been done before they sold the product. In the case of the Ottolock, this was clearly egregious that this product was ever put out there at that price range.
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Old 06-03-19, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
The problem with this...
The idea was that you announced you found a weakness with/flaw in/problem about a lock to the public but didn't announce exactly what that problem was* for some short period of time. You informed the manufacturer and gave them just a bit to fix the issue or withdraw the lock from sale before going full public**.




*Consumer Reports did this back in 1991 with the Kryptonite u-lock

**Consumer Reports did not do this and Kryptonite continued to sell locks that could be opened with the body of a Bic pen for the next ten years!
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Old 06-03-19, 01:09 PM
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Philadelphia has to be the worst city for cyclists and bike theft. I’ve had a few bikes stolen in minutes and once a gentleman used a battery operated grinder in broad daylight. I couldn’t believe it! Philly has so much potential, it’s sad.
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Old 06-03-19, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
The idea was that you announced you found a weakness with/flaw in/problem about a lock to the public but didn't announce exactly what that problem was* for some short period of time. You informed the manufacturer and gave them just a bit to fix the issue or withdraw the lock from sale before going full public**.




*Consumer Reports did this back in 1991 with the Kryptonite u-lock

**Consumer Reports did not do this and Kryptonite continued to sell locks that could be opened with the body of a Bic pen for the next ten years!

That might make sense when the problem is one that others aren't likely to find in the meantime. In the case of the Ottolock, the exploit was so simple and obvious that consumers should definitely have been told the specifics right away.

I think it's also suspect how informed the consumer really is if they don't know the exact nature of the problem.

I think reasonable minds could differ on whether violating this "norm" is a con or a pro, especially in a market where vast numbers of a product can be moved much faster than in 1991.

I appreciate your taking the time to explain this even if I don't agree with you (I think--you're obviously way more familiar with the issue than I am).
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Old 06-03-19, 01:42 PM
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I currently carry a cable lock for an emergency stop for food while I am out. I refuse to be out of line of site of my bicycle for very long. When I lived in Florida I used a Kryptonite heavy chain with the little U lock on my mtb. I went shopping one evening and locked it to the WalMart bicycle rack thing. I walked out of the store and when I looked out at the bicycle rack my chain and lock were on the ground next to the rack. Another person couldn't help but notice the battery powered grinder he had used and pointed the thief out to me. He was almost to his pickup truck. I caught up to him as he was placing my bicycle in his pickup truck. Without a word I rammed him with the shopping cart. I have considered electrifying the whole setup but this could be problematic. I only want to hurt, disfigure, eviscerate, draw and quarter or put through the wood chipper thieves. Not everyone else.
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Old 06-03-19, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
In the case of the Ottolock...
...the company specifically advertised 'this improved model can't be cut with tin snips'. I'd agree it's perfectly fine to widely publish that it can be cut with tin snips ASAP. (Likewise with Litelok & TiGR 'can't be cut' advertising.)

I wouldn't call cutting resistance a hidden flaw that's not obvious to the public, though.

Now, if someone discovered that taking an .009" metal shim and laser cutting it into a particularly shaped hook and inserting it into just the right spot would release the latching mechanism, IMO privately informing the company of how and that you would release details on the flaw to the public in two months if they didn't fix it is more responsible than publishing a how-to video with instructions and dimensions the next day. Hmm, probably wouldn't get you as many youtube views, though.

PS - IIRC, Ottolock didn't accept LPL's initial findings graciously. In fact, again IIRC, they made some disparaging comments directed at him. At that point, all is fair.

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