Sidewall blowout on GP4000SII
#26
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Yep, still my favorite tires and totally dependable for me.
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#27
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Maybe someone here has experience with tire manufacturing. I'm trying to figure what would be the cause of the often cited "bad batch" of tires. Variations in weaving the fabric seem unlikely. The rubber coating is protective but irrelevant unless the sidewall is compromised externally. What specifically could cause the sidewall to spontaneously explode? Maybe some tire company has addressed this?
#28
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One thing that isn't in dispute here is that some other tires are in fact more durable than GP4ks, like Gatorskins. That being the case, people who are concerned should test ride some gatorskins to see if they can even notice a difference. I know the GP tires save watts and are lighter and are more supple bla bla bla, and I also know some of us actually can feel a difference, but not everyone can and for the people who don't even notice that they're on the more durable tire, why not just stick with those? They're cheaper to boot. One of our local Cat 1 fast dudes who wins all the regional crits trains and races exclusively on gatorskins, so it's not like you're suddenly riding around on blocks of ice if you switch.
#29
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I gotta say, I really don't believe for a second that GP4000s have some sort of inate and consistent design flaw that causes them to randomly and catastrophically fail more often than other tires of similar construction. They're about the most common and appreciated go fast tire available on the market.
What I find MUCH more likely is that because the GP4000 is the most common go fast tire out there...sometimes when someone has a sidewall issue of any kind, it goes up on the internet as some grand conspiracy theory. Just like when sidewalls blow out on other tires. Except, there are a lot MORE GP4000s in circulation, so you get more conspiracy theory stories online, and it is that absolute number people refer to when they claim "theres something up with these sidewalls OMG!!!"
Occams Razor. Simplest answer is probably the right one. And, the simplest answer is most definitely NOT some weird, yet unresearched and unknown design flaw that mysteriously make SOME peoples GP4000s catastrophically flimsy, while others go thousands of miles.
The simple answer is there are a LOT of these tires on the road, so you have correspondingly more failures.
What I find MUCH more likely is that because the GP4000 is the most common go fast tire out there...sometimes when someone has a sidewall issue of any kind, it goes up on the internet as some grand conspiracy theory. Just like when sidewalls blow out on other tires. Except, there are a lot MORE GP4000s in circulation, so you get more conspiracy theory stories online, and it is that absolute number people refer to when they claim "theres something up with these sidewalls OMG!!!"
Occams Razor. Simplest answer is probably the right one. And, the simplest answer is most definitely NOT some weird, yet unresearched and unknown design flaw that mysteriously make SOME peoples GP4000s catastrophically flimsy, while others go thousands of miles.
The simple answer is there are a LOT of these tires on the road, so you have correspondingly more failures.
#30
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I gotta say, I really don't believe for a second that GP4000s have some sort of inate and consistent design flaw that causes them to randomly and catastrophically fail more often than other tires of similar construction. They're about the most common and appreciated go fast tire available on the market.
What I find MUCH more likely is that because the GP4000 is the most common go fast tire out there...sometimes when someone has a sidewall issue of any kind, it goes up on the internet as some grand conspiracy theory. Just like when sidewalls blow out on other tires. Except, there are a lot MORE GP4000s in circulation, so you get more conspiracy theory stories online, and it is that absolute number people refer to when they claim "theres something up with these sidewalls OMG!!!"
Occams Razor. Simplest answer is probably the right one. And, the simplest answer is most definitely NOT some weird, yet unresearched and unknown design flaw that mysteriously make SOME peoples GP4000s catastrophically flimsy, while others go thousands of miles.
The simple answer is there are a LOT of these tires on the road, so you have correspondingly more failures.
What I find MUCH more likely is that because the GP4000 is the most common go fast tire out there...sometimes when someone has a sidewall issue of any kind, it goes up on the internet as some grand conspiracy theory. Just like when sidewalls blow out on other tires. Except, there are a lot MORE GP4000s in circulation, so you get more conspiracy theory stories online, and it is that absolute number people refer to when they claim "theres something up with these sidewalls OMG!!!"
Occams Razor. Simplest answer is probably the right one. And, the simplest answer is most definitely NOT some weird, yet unresearched and unknown design flaw that mysteriously make SOME peoples GP4000s catastrophically flimsy, while others go thousands of miles.
The simple answer is there are a LOT of these tires on the road, so you have correspondingly more failures.
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#31
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I wish I had seen this post earlier. I can attest to the crappy sidewalls. I discovered a tear during a pre-ride inspection. I noticed my tire was extremely low in pressure. I spun the tire around and found a torn and bulging sidewall. Live and learn.
'Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice...not gonna happen, even with your new gp5k"
'Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice...not gonna happen, even with your new gp5k"
#32
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I’m done with this line of tires after having two premature sidewall failures in less than a year. I’m on Vittorias now that are half the price and fortunately enough for me I’m a plebian and can’t tell any difference in feel.
#33
Still kicking.
I strangely recently had the chords to a gp400II that I used on the front shift and had all of 150 miles on it. Conti's QC certainly has not been good as of late.
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I blew the bead off of a Gator Hardshell a couple of years ago. About 75 miles from new. No indication of any damage to the tire before it blew.
I did manage to get the tire booted well enough to get 20 miles to the nearest bike shop, but, it was a tough boot with about 2" of bead loose.
I did manage to get the tire booted well enough to get 20 miles to the nearest bike shop, but, it was a tough boot with about 2" of bead loose.
#35
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What makes the internet a hot mess is defensive, argumentative people who insist anything short of peer reviewed scientific study is a hot mess.
#36
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I would argue that a collection of anecdotal evidence like we have here is of value. I am running 4000s on two of my bikes. I love them. I don't intend to strip them off and toss them, but when replacement time comes I'll find a tire where there's not a substantial collection of anecdotal evidence that there may be sidewall issues.
What makes the internet a hot mess is defensive, argumentative people who insist anything short of peer reviewed scientific study is a hot mess.
What makes the internet a hot mess is defensive, argumentative people who insist anything short of peer reviewed scientific study is a hot mess.
#37
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And if I suffer a 50 mph sidewall blowout, crash, am paralyzed, then die a painful death choking on my own blood in agony, and leave a grieving wife and five orphaned children ... this is also meaningless. As they say, "Row, row, row your boat, life is but a dream." Sidewall blowouts are really just mind over matter. If you don't mind, they don't matter.
Seriously though, I own at least six pairs of GP4000II's. They're great tires, but I know if I take a big hit from a rock or pothole, there's a good chance of sidewall damage. So I keep this knowledge in mind and am a little more careful on these. Performance always comes at a cost, in this case, the thin sidewalls provide good handling, but reduced protection. I'm willing to take this risk, but I like to be aware of any inherent drawbacks in the design of the tire.
Or we can all just bury our heads in the sand, retain absolute brand loyalty, and shoot any messenger who claims their experience with the product was less than 100% satisfactory.
Seriously though, I own at least six pairs of GP4000II's. They're great tires, but I know if I take a big hit from a rock or pothole, there's a good chance of sidewall damage. So I keep this knowledge in mind and am a little more careful on these. Performance always comes at a cost, in this case, the thin sidewalls provide good handling, but reduced protection. I'm willing to take this risk, but I like to be aware of any inherent drawbacks in the design of the tire.
Or we can all just bury our heads in the sand, retain absolute brand loyalty, and shoot any messenger who claims their experience with the product was less than 100% satisfactory.
#38
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And if I suffer a 50 mph sidewall blowout, crash, am paralyzed, then die a painful death choking on my own blood in agony, and leave a grieving wife and five orphaned children ... this is also meaningless. As they say, "Row, row, row your boat, life is but a dream." Sidewall blowouts are really just mind over matter. If you don't mind, they don't matter.
Seriously though, I own at least six pairs of GP4000II's. They're great tires, but I know if I take a big hit from a rock or pothole, there's a good chance of sidewall damage. So I keep this knowledge in mind and am a little more careful on these. Performance always comes at a cost, in this case, the thin sidewalls provide good handling, but reduced protection. I'm willing to take this risk, but I like to be aware of any inherent drawbacks in the design of the tire.
Or we can all just bury our heads in the sand, retain absolute brand loyalty, and shoot any messenger who claims their experience with the product was less than 100% satisfactory.
Seriously though, I own at least six pairs of GP4000II's. They're great tires, but I know if I take a big hit from a rock or pothole, there's a good chance of sidewall damage. So I keep this knowledge in mind and am a little more careful on these. Performance always comes at a cost, in this case, the thin sidewalls provide good handling, but reduced protection. I'm willing to take this risk, but I like to be aware of any inherent drawbacks in the design of the tire.
Or we can all just bury our heads in the sand, retain absolute brand loyalty, and shoot any messenger who claims their experience with the product was less than 100% satisfactory.
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#39
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And if I suffer a 50 mph sidewall blowout, crash, am paralyzed, then die a painful death choking on my own blood in agony, and leave a grieving wife and five orphaned children ... this is also meaningless. As they say, "Row, row, row your boat, life is but a dream." Sidewall blowouts are really just mind over matter. If you don't mind, they don't matter.
Seriously though, I own at least six pairs of GP4000II's. They're great tires, but I know if I take a big hit from a rock or pothole, there's a good chance of sidewall damage. So I keep this knowledge in mind and am a little more careful on these. Performance always comes at a cost, in this case, the thin sidewalls provide good handling, but reduced protection. I'm willing to take this risk, but I like to be aware of any inherent drawbacks in the design of the tire.
Or we can all just bury our heads in the sand, retain absolute brand loyalty, and shoot any messenger who claims their experience with the product was less than 100% satisfactory.
Seriously though, I own at least six pairs of GP4000II's. They're great tires, but I know if I take a big hit from a rock or pothole, there's a good chance of sidewall damage. So I keep this knowledge in mind and am a little more careful on these. Performance always comes at a cost, in this case, the thin sidewalls provide good handling, but reduced protection. I'm willing to take this risk, but I like to be aware of any inherent drawbacks in the design of the tire.
Or we can all just bury our heads in the sand, retain absolute brand loyalty, and shoot any messenger who claims their experience with the product was less than 100% satisfactory.
#40
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I have a pair in the bin, waiting for the Open Paves to wear out. I resisted long and hard, due to all the anecdotal evidence and then found some on closeout. So I'm risking only $33 per tire, instead of twice that. The open Paves are holding up for a much longer period of time than expected.
#41
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Tire, rim & spoke failures have a lot to do with the rider; how much they weigh, how heavy they ride and how often they ride thru chaff, cracks, bumps or holes. I've got a couple friends that don't weigh more than a buck fifty and they are HARD on equipment. The reason? They can't see a church bus on Sunday. If it's in the road they're hitting it with their elbows locked leaning on the bars and their butts planted firmly in the saddle.
Maybe this particular brand IS prone to sidewall failures but every road bike I ride regularly has them and I've never had one. That's not to say that it can't or won't happen in the future; that's just MY anecdotal experience. I let fly when I descend and if a tire fails and it gets me, it gets me. No matter how careful you are, you're gonna die. That said, no matter how bad these tires might be, if you use them, you're probably gonna die from something else.
Maybe this particular brand IS prone to sidewall failures but every road bike I ride regularly has them and I've never had one. That's not to say that it can't or won't happen in the future; that's just MY anecdotal experience. I let fly when I descend and if a tire fails and it gets me, it gets me. No matter how careful you are, you're gonna die. That said, no matter how bad these tires might be, if you use them, you're probably gonna die from something else.
Last edited by nomadmax; 07-31-19 at 10:34 AM.
#42
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I have ridden perhaps a half dozen Contis over the years. Enough bad results (that weren't my doing) to keep me away from them forever. By contrast, I've ridden probably over 100 Vittorias. Yes, a few have had issues and there has been a couple of runs of bad tires (over 20 years of my riding them but overall, I love their consistent quality. Yes they flat much more often than Contis. They also grip better. I am happy to patch 20 flats if they keep my skin off the pavement once. (I've lost enough for this lifetime.)
Ben
Ben
#43
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It is hard to say. When one has one sidewall/bead failure, is it just bad luck, or is it something with the tire brand?
But, in my case (Gator Hardshell), the only thing I could think of that would have contributed to the failure was mounting and inflating the tire at night, then riding on a hot day (moderate over-pressure?)
I didn't feel I was at risk of death, crashes, etc. But, the failure was a huge annoyance. Self-supported, flat, in the middle of a ride, and 20 miles from the nearest bike shop.
Going beyond the one rider, it seems as if there are enough anecdotal failures that there likely is something to weak sidewalls with the Continental tires which appear to be worse than many other brands.
Nonetheless, I like the general hard wearing of the Gator Hardshells.
But, in my case (Gator Hardshell), the only thing I could think of that would have contributed to the failure was mounting and inflating the tire at night, then riding on a hot day (moderate over-pressure?)
I didn't feel I was at risk of death, crashes, etc. But, the failure was a huge annoyance. Self-supported, flat, in the middle of a ride, and 20 miles from the nearest bike shop.
Going beyond the one rider, it seems as if there are enough anecdotal failures that there likely is something to weak sidewalls with the Continental tires which appear to be worse than many other brands.
Nonetheless, I like the general hard wearing of the Gator Hardshells.
#45
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They ride excellent on mountain roads. Nice and light going uphill, great grip and perfect handling going downhill. Good roundness and balance. My favorite tire for high speed descents.
There's a heck of a lot to like about the tires, they're just a little fragile, so try to baby 'em to the extent you can. I like my Panaracers too (Pasela and Gravel King) but don't have as many miles on them yet, so the jury is mostly still out.
There's a heck of a lot to like about the tires, they're just a little fragile, so try to baby 'em to the extent you can. I like my Panaracers too (Pasela and Gravel King) but don't have as many miles on them yet, so the jury is mostly still out.
#46
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In my particular case, I think my sidewall ripped during a descent. I think the tire flexed too much. I'm 160lbs and I had my tires aired to 105/110psi. I ride on mostly smooth road. My descents have switchbacks and I'm hitting 30-38mph. I like to trail/late brake. The tear is perpendicular to the sidewall and in a jagged fashion. It looks like it just ripped from lateral pressure.
#47
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That's way too much pressure. At your weight you should be around 85PSI (on 23c tyres)