The case for bike lanes
06-23-19, 09:47 PM
#77
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Then I'm glad that in my city, somebody is doing something right in spite of the usual complaints.
06-24-19, 03:48 AM
#78
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Don't get me wrong, Boston has done some great things really well. But comparing the geography of Boston to Toronto, there's just a lot more places in Boston where sharrows make more sense than segregating.
06-24-19, 08:43 PM
#79
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But that's redundant because ANY road a cyclist is riding on, motorists have to share.
The particular road in Toronto that has a sharrow is so congested, motorists really can't drive on it without having to change lanes for the parked cars anyways. Many times, I'd just take the entire lane or weave past all the traffic until I reach that protected bike lane I was headed for on Bloor Street.
06-24-19, 09:07 PM
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Today I'd probably appreciate it.
06-24-19, 09:37 PM
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At least Metropolitan is IRE PROOF.
06-25-19, 02:23 AM
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Sharrows don't make a lot of sense to me. They are supposed to indicate to motorists that this road is a preferred road for cyclists and that motorists have to share.
But that's redundant because ANY road a cyclist is riding on, motorists have to share.
The particular road in Toronto that has a sharrow is so congested, motorists really can't drive on it without having to change lanes for the parked cars anyways. Many times, I'd just take the entire lane or weave past all the traffic until I reach that protected bike lane I was headed for on Bloor Street.
But that's redundant because ANY road a cyclist is riding on, motorists have to share.
The particular road in Toronto that has a sharrow is so congested, motorists really can't drive on it without having to change lanes for the parked cars anyways. Many times, I'd just take the entire lane or weave past all the traffic until I reach that protected bike lane I was headed for on Bloor Street.
Basically, they're good driver education tools.
06-25-19, 11:12 AM
#85
Senior Member
As long as what works to get new people safely onto their bikes, there shouldn't be a problem.
In Toronto, bike lanes work. Sharrows seem to be marginally better than any confident rider on any street.
In Toronto, bike lanes work. Sharrows seem to be marginally better than any confident rider on any street.
06-25-19, 12:13 PM
#86
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Marginal is a good term. Sharrows are far from the perfect solution (motorist still drive into crosswalks), but they do increase awareness, as they serve as visual reminders of the cyclist right to the roads.
06-26-19, 10:41 AM
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Don't get me wrong, Boston has done some great things really well. But comparing the geography of Boston to Toronto, there's just a lot more places in Boston where sharrows make more sense than segregating.
Sharrows are one of the few things that turn out to be better in practice than they sound in theory. I could see if there's only one such street in the city, it probably would not be that effective, but that hasn't been my experience.
Idon't know if you're familiar with Boston, but it might be the least rationally laid out street system of any major city in North America. There's a lot of major streets that are just too narrow and irregularly routed to be able to retrofit with a bike lane.
What I have noticed is that the sharrows, which are all over the place, seem to have retrained drivers not to freak out when a bike takes the lane. It also helps with the crazy 5 and 6 way intersections that Boston has so many of to be sitting in one of the lanes rather than trying FRAP in a context where people already have too many lanes to keep track of.
You get honked at or otherwise harassed much less for doing this when there's sharrows.
Basically, they're good driver education tools.
Idon't know if you're familiar with Boston, but it might be the least rationally laid out street system of any major city in North America. There's a lot of major streets that are just too narrow and irregularly routed to be able to retrofit with a bike lane.
What I have noticed is that the sharrows, which are all over the place, seem to have retrained drivers not to freak out when a bike takes the lane. It also helps with the crazy 5 and 6 way intersections that Boston has so many of to be sitting in one of the lanes rather than trying FRAP in a context where people already have too many lanes to keep track of.
You get honked at or otherwise harassed much less for doing this when there's sharrows.
Basically, they're good driver education tools.
…Two years ago we visited Toronto and when riding on Yonge St. I realized how valuable were those simply painted bike lanes we have in Boston; Toronto had none.
Later on that visit, I met a cyclist and we exchanged tales of riding in our mutual cities. He told me about Rob Ford’s vehement anti-cycling stance.
Later on that visit, I met a cyclist and we exchanged tales of riding in our mutual cities. He told me about Rob Ford’s vehement anti-cycling stance.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
… he asked me how Boston compared, and I had to admit urban riding in TO was a lot scarier than in Boston.
In comparing notes, he blamed it on the Mayor, who "drove an SUV," while I praised our mayor for his commitment to cycling, and even hired a former Olympic cyclist as a "Bicycling Czar." It seems our Hubways Bike-Share system is doing well, while your Bixi Bikes is having some difficulty.
Nonetheless, I was impressed with the number of cyclists I saw....
In comparing notes, he blamed it on the Mayor, who "drove an SUV," while I praised our mayor for his commitment to cycling, and even hired a former Olympic cyclist as a "Bicycling Czar." It seems our Hubways Bike-Share system is doing well, while your Bixi Bikes is having some difficulty.
Nonetheless, I was impressed with the number of cyclists I saw....
One of the big changes in the Boston cycling scene over the past couple years has been the interest that [the late] Mayor *****o has taken in bicycling, and he has appointed a bike czar, introduced several cycling lanes in those above-mentioned areas in the heart of the city, and instituted a bicycle sharing system, called “Hubway,” particularly centered in the downtown and surrounding neighborhoods.
(Boston is known, besides Beantown, as the Hub of the Universe
)
(Boston is known, besides Beantown, as the Hub of the Universe
)Last edited by Jim from Boston; 06-26-19 at 12:47 PM.
06-26-19, 11:56 AM
#88
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https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bo...!4d-71.0588801
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Yo...!4d-79.4077558
06-26-19, 01:45 PM
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Don't get me wrong, Boston has done some great things really well. But comparing the geography of Boston to Toronto, there's just a lot more places in Boston where sharrows make more sense than segregating.
Sharrows are one of the few things that turn out to be better in practice than they sound in theory...
Idon't know if you're familiar with Boston, but it might be the least rationally laid out street system of any major city in North America. There's a lot of major streets that are just too narrow and irregularly routed to be able to retrofit with a bike lane.
What I have noticed is that the sharrows, which are all over the place, seem to have retrained drivers not to freak out when a bike takes the lane...
You get honked at or otherwise harassed much less for doing this when there's sharrows.
Basically, they're good driver education tools
Idon't know if you're familiar with Boston, but it might be the least rationally laid out street system of any major city in North America. There's a lot of major streets that are just too narrow and irregularly routed to be able to retrofit with a bike lane.
What I have noticed is that the sharrows, which are all over the place, seem to have retrained drivers not to freak out when a bike takes the lane...
You get honked at or otherwise harassed much less for doing this when there's sharrows.
Basically, they're good driver education tools
Just this morning on the 6-7 AM segment of the Jeff Kuhner talk show on WRKO, he discussed proposals by mayor Marty Walsh to decrease the speed limit in Boston to 20 mph, and increase the number of bus and bike lanes.
He was vehemently against it, as were many of the callers, with snide comments about cyclists.
I called in as Jim from Boston “speaking for "Boston’s cycling community”....I made two points: bicycles are entitled to be on the road, and the more cyclists, the fewer other cars, and the more parking spaces available.
Jeff was pretty gracious, but I (accidentally) got cut off. ...
I sent a rebuttal text to the station, FWIW:
He was vehemently against it, as were many of the callers, with snide comments about cyclists.
I called in as Jim from Boston “speaking for "Boston’s cycling community”....I made two points: bicycles are entitled to be on the road, and the more cyclists, the fewer other cars, and the more parking spaces available.
Jeff was pretty gracious, but I (accidentally) got cut off. ...
I sent a rebuttal text to the station, FWIW:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
...Before I got cut off I was going to make my third point that cyclists are ultimately responsible for their own safety, and I agree with your subsequent comments about cycle-auto collisions.
In the “cycling community” there are two schools of thought about riding in traffic: As Far Right as Possible: close to the curb; or Take the Lane to be out there and visible to cars. Bike lanes encourage the former behavior, likely more tolerated by motorists.
Bike lanes are not that wide, but then cyclist is in the “door zone” in danger of opening doors from parked cars.
In the “cycling community” there are two schools of thought about riding in traffic: As Far Right as Possible: close to the curb; or Take the Lane to be out there and visible to cars. Bike lanes encourage the former behavior, likely more tolerated by motorists.
Bike lanes are not that wide, but then cyclist is in the “door zone” in danger of opening doors from parked cars.
06-26-19, 01:50 PM
#90
Senior Member
Cities vary so much in their geography, it isn't surprising that some things work better in one than the other--just for comparison, the city centers are linked below:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bo...!4d-71.0588801
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Yo...!4d-79.4077558
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bo...!4d-71.0588801
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Yo...!4d-79.4077558
By looking at a map of downtown Toronto, could you have seen the strong criticism that the planning of bike lanes had attracted? Only by installing those bike lanes as pilot projects have they been shown to be popular. It's the same argument you hear everywhere and I'm sure what was stated in Toronto is still being said in Boston. It's not over. The vote for Yonge Street in North York has been postponed because city council was split. The Mayor wants to move the planned bike lanes over to a side street west of Yonge so not to disrupt the traffic flow from the suburbs to the highway.
So I went on Youtube to look at some bike lanes in Boston. Well, I'm sure a few videos don't show what you're trying to explain but they look ok to me except that some of them seem to run down the middle of the road.
06-26-19, 02:11 PM
#91
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It's hard to tell whether bike lanes or bike routes work just by looking at a map. How could you tell that by looking at Amsterdam and Copenhagen without actually being there? Same with New York City. I'm sure there remains the standard critics of NY bike lanes but there is growth of cycling since NYC traffic had been redesigned.
By looking at a map of downtown Toronto, could you have seen the strong criticism that the planning of bike lanes had attracted? Only by installing those bike lanes as pilot projects have they been shown to be popular. It's the same argument you hear everywhere and I'm sure what was stated in Toronto is still being said in Boston. It's not over. The vote for Yonge Street in North York has been postponed because city council was split. The Mayor wants to move the planned bike lanes over to a side street west of Yonge so not to disrupt the traffic flow from the suburbs to the highway.
So I went on Youtube to look at some bike lanes in Boston. Well, I'm sure a few videos don't show what you're trying to explain but they look ok to me except that some of them seem to run down the middle of the road.
By looking at a map of downtown Toronto, could you have seen the strong criticism that the planning of bike lanes had attracted? Only by installing those bike lanes as pilot projects have they been shown to be popular. It's the same argument you hear everywhere and I'm sure what was stated in Toronto is still being said in Boston. It's not over. The vote for Yonge Street in North York has been postponed because city council was split. The Mayor wants to move the planned bike lanes over to a side street west of Yonge so not to disrupt the traffic flow from the suburbs to the highway.
So I went on Youtube to look at some bike lanes in Boston. Well, I'm sure a few videos don't show what you're trying to explain but they look ok to me except that some of them seem to run down the middle of the road.
One of the biggest challenges in riding and driving in the Boston area is that the streets are often laid out in different schemes where current or former city boundaries are or were. This gives you intersections with crazy multiple angles, and being off to the side of a lane when going through one of those is just not a good idea--the drivers can't easily keep track of all the other car lanes, adding a bike lane just increases the complexity.
06-28-19, 07:58 AM
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The driver of the SUV said they didn't see her. She was wearing a bright yellow jersey and had a 5 LED Cateye flashing tail light on at the time. Her flasher sits atop a white milk crate secured to her rear rack! The driver was obviously distracted by something. I'm not sure a bike lane would matter to a distracted automobile driver.
06-28-19, 05:09 PM
#93
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My wife got hit by a car while commuting to work Wednesday morning during daylight. She's okay, a little bruised up, but okay. For now she's stopped riding her bike though. The driver of the SUV said they didn't see her. She was wearing a bright yellow jersey and had a 5 LED Cateye flashing tail light on at the time. Her flasher sits atop a white milk crate secured to her rear rack! The driver was obviously distracted by something. I'm not sure a bike lane would matter to a distracted automobile driver.
Recently Bike Virginia came thru our region with about 2000 cyclists. We saw cars gunning to pass them. We saw near head on collisions by cars trying to pass bikes. We also saw some bad riding technique including weaving, double yellow line crossing and cyclists running 3 abreast in traffic. Some of the riders reported approximately 6 severe accidents during the event including a cyclist they said was "sucked under a semi truck". Wow! Hope they're okay.
Recently Bike Virginia came thru our region with about 2000 cyclists. We saw cars gunning to pass them. We saw near head on collisions by cars trying to pass bikes. We also saw some bad riding technique including weaving, double yellow line crossing and cyclists running 3 abreast in traffic. Some of the riders reported approximately 6 severe accidents during the event including a cyclist they said was "sucked under a semi truck". Wow! Hope they're okay.
Anyway, its good to hear that she's OK. Just try and get her back on the bike as soon as possible. Baby steps if you have to. Just don't let this one unfortunate incident sink in and put her off from cycling. Of course, that's a decision only the two of you can make.
