Niner RLT 9 RDO Build
03-28-17, 08:49 PM
#51
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03-28-17
Continued from Previous Post...
The brake bundle comes with L02A resin pads. This build will be using L04C metallic pads but the resin pads from the kit were installed just to get a feel for how everything fits together.
A bleed block comes installed into the caliper. These are the yellow parts in the pictures below and they prevent the pistons from extending too far out during the bleeding process and whenever the calipers don't have pads and rotor between the pistons.
The bleed block is removed by pulling the snap retainer off the slide pin and unscrewing the pin with a flat tip screwdriver. I wish the slide pin were a hex head bolt but my guess is that Shimano engineers made it a slotted bolt so that ham-fisted mechanics wouldn't strip threads in the caliper. Pads slide back and forth on this pin and it is important not to scratch or damage it to the extent that it is possible.
It is extremely important that the pad friction surfaces do not get contaminated with brake fluid, oil or grease of any kind or any other potential contaminants. Handle with care and don't touch the friction material with your fingers!
The spring is sandwiched between the pads as shown and the pads with spring are slid into the caliper. Unlike automotive brakes, Shimano warns not to use lubricant on the slide pin or anti-squeal treatment on the back of the pads.
The slide pin is reinstalled and captures the pads and spring by way of holes in the parts pictured above. The retainer clip is attached to the end of the slide pin to hold it all together. An orange brake block is then inserted where the rotor would normally go when the caliper is mounted on the bike. Similar to the bleed blocks, the brake blocks prevent pistons from extending too far and are used during the bleeding process.
Everything was packed up in an obsessively organized way and put back into the closet for another day.
If you have ever worked on automotive brakes then these will be no problem at all. A big plus that a floor jack or jackstands are not needed.
-Tim-
Continued from Previous Post...
The brake bundle comes with L02A resin pads. This build will be using L04C metallic pads but the resin pads from the kit were installed just to get a feel for how everything fits together.
A bleed block comes installed into the caliper. These are the yellow parts in the pictures below and they prevent the pistons from extending too far out during the bleeding process and whenever the calipers don't have pads and rotor between the pistons.
The bleed block is removed by pulling the snap retainer off the slide pin and unscrewing the pin with a flat tip screwdriver. I wish the slide pin were a hex head bolt but my guess is that Shimano engineers made it a slotted bolt so that ham-fisted mechanics wouldn't strip threads in the caliper. Pads slide back and forth on this pin and it is important not to scratch or damage it to the extent that it is possible.
It is extremely important that the pad friction surfaces do not get contaminated with brake fluid, oil or grease of any kind or any other potential contaminants. Handle with care and don't touch the friction material with your fingers!
The spring is sandwiched between the pads as shown and the pads with spring are slid into the caliper. Unlike automotive brakes, Shimano warns not to use lubricant on the slide pin or anti-squeal treatment on the back of the pads.
The slide pin is reinstalled and captures the pads and spring by way of holes in the parts pictured above. The retainer clip is attached to the end of the slide pin to hold it all together. An orange brake block is then inserted where the rotor would normally go when the caliper is mounted on the bike. Similar to the bleed blocks, the brake blocks prevent pistons from extending too far and are used during the bleeding process.
Everything was packed up in an obsessively organized way and put back into the closet for another day.
If you have ever worked on automotive brakes then these will be no problem at all. A big plus that a floor jack or jackstands are not needed.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 03-28-17 at 09:33 PM.
03-28-17, 09:50 PM
#52
Senior Member
03-28-17
Continued from Previous Post...
The brake bundle comes with L02A resin pads. This build will be using L04C metallic pads but the resin pads from the kit were installed just to get a feel for how everything fits together.
If you have ever worked on automotive brakes then these will be no problem at all. A big plus that a floor jack or jackstands are not needed.
Continued from Previous Post...
The brake bundle comes with L02A resin pads. This build will be using L04C metallic pads but the resin pads from the kit were installed just to get a feel for how everything fits together.
If you have ever worked on automotive brakes then these will be no problem at all. A big plus that a floor jack or jackstands are not needed.
Back to your post, why metallic pads? Have you actually tried metallic pads before?
They're ummm....different...
They make a lot of noise, and when you initially grab the brakes they have almost no initial bite. I found that I had to drag mine a lot just to keep them in their temperature range.
The best analogy for metallic pads is they're like track automotive brake pads. You always have the disadvantages and maybe only sometimes get the advantages. Most people gravel biking will never even touch the heat ranges where you need metallic.
My advice would be to start with the resin pads, and if you cook them then move to metallic.
03-28-17, 10:16 PM
#53
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Very detailed post. And very true about the automotive brakes, honestly, I don't find hydraulics any harder to deal with than mechanical (just a little messy), they're very simple and robust.
Back to your post, why metallic pads? Have you actually tried metallic pads before?
They're ummm....different...
They make a lot of noise, and when you initially grab the brakes they have almost no initial bite. I found that I had to drag mine a lot just to keep them in their temperature range.
The best analogy for metallic pads is they're like track automotive brake pads. You always have the disadvantages and maybe only sometimes get the advantages. Most people gravel biking will never even touch the heat ranges where you need metallic.
My advice would be to start with the resin pads, and if you cook them then move to metallic.
Back to your post, why metallic pads? Have you actually tried metallic pads before?
They're ummm....different...
They make a lot of noise, and when you initially grab the brakes they have almost no initial bite. I found that I had to drag mine a lot just to keep them in their temperature range.
The best analogy for metallic pads is they're like track automotive brake pads. You always have the disadvantages and maybe only sometimes get the advantages. Most people gravel biking will never even touch the heat ranges where you need metallic.
My advice would be to start with the resin pads, and if you cook them then move to metallic.
Thank you for this.
I honestly have no clue other than what I bring from the automotive world and some mountain bike guys who told me that resin pads wear our quickly in dirty conditions.
I have used semi-metallic street pads on on my cars since they first came out and know about heat ranges of track pads so your post makes perfect sense. My Subaru has very mild Hawk pads, DBA rotors, Goodrich lines, a master cylinder brace, etc.
Having run metallic pads on the street I assumed that cycling would be the same. Your advice is really appreciated. Metallic pads are not cheap!
-Tim-
03-28-17, 10:42 PM
#54
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Very detailed post. And very true about the automotive brakes, honestly, I don't find hydraulics any harder to deal with than mechanical (just a little messy), they're very simple and robust.
Back to your post, why metallic pads? Have you actually tried metallic pads before?
They're ummm....different...
They make a lot of noise, and when you initially grab the brakes they have almost no initial bite. I found that I had to drag mine a lot just to keep them in their temperature range.
The best analogy for metallic pads is they're like track automotive brake pads. You always have the disadvantages and maybe only sometimes get the advantages. Most people gravel biking will never even touch the heat ranges where you need metallic.
My advice would be to start with the resin pads, and if you cook them then move to metallic.
Back to your post, why metallic pads? Have you actually tried metallic pads before?
They're ummm....different...
They make a lot of noise, and when you initially grab the brakes they have almost no initial bite. I found that I had to drag mine a lot just to keep them in their temperature range.
The best analogy for metallic pads is they're like track automotive brake pads. You always have the disadvantages and maybe only sometimes get the advantages. Most people gravel biking will never even touch the heat ranges where you need metallic.
My advice would be to start with the resin pads, and if you cook them then move to metallic.
I suppose the other nice thing you've noticed is that Shimano hydraulic brake pads are trivially simple to swap, so it should be easy to experiment. Though I'm thinking you'd probably want to try out the resin pads first before switching to metallic pads and bedding those in.
03-29-17, 07:14 AM
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03-28-17
Messed Around with Disk Brake Calipers. There are lots of pictures and this might spill into a second post.
I say "Messed around" because some of what I did tonight will likely be undone at some point and it really was just an exercise in familiarity with the product. Having done countless brake jobs, a few big brake kits and even helped on a custom fabrication job in the automotive world I'm quite familiar with disk brake technology in general. The principals are the same but the parts sure are smaller! This is the first time I've worked on bicycle disk brakes.
The following documents were used:
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/uecarl8ghewk3wh/st-r785.levers.and.br-rs805.calipers.bundle.001.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/mxwd2pzbu4ehg5w/st-r785.levers.and.br-rs805.calipers.bundle.003.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
There were several small bags with a myriad of small parts and so the first thing I did was arrange a well lit work area and several small ziplock bags so that the parts didn't get mixed up or lost. The front caliper is pictured below as it appears out of the box with a mounting plate attached to the bottom.
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxt3yj8umutomvv/br-rs805.front.caliper.new.002.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
The note "UP for 140mm" printed on the mounting plate refers to 140mm rotors. This bike will be using 160mm rotors and the plate is reversible to accommodate the larger disks.
A small safety retaining pin keeps the caliper from falling off should the mounting plate bolts come loose. The pin was pulled using small needle-nose pliers - ziplock bags come in handy here. The two 4mm bolts were removed from the bottom of the plate, it was flipped 180° and reinstalled using a dab of blue threadlocker. Torque spec is 6-8 Nm. The pin was then reinstalled. Note that the plate now says "UP for 160mm" on the outside.
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/qq8wozjr58oaqi7/br-rs805.rear.caliper.build.001.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
The rear caliper comes with no such mounting plate. The Niner frame is designed to accept the caliper without a mounting plate when using 140mm rotors. A Shimano SM-MA-R160 D/D adapter is used to space the caliper an additional 10mm away from the axle to accommodate the larger rotors. There are literally dozens of different adapters and "Answerer of Questions" Chris Wolff @ Niner quickly came up with the exact part number needed.
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/1hx8xziiwqsmvbx/rear.brake.adapter.for.160mm.rotors.001.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/n0xguj693boagtl/rear.brake.adapter.for.160mm.rotors.003.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
Additional part numbers for the adapter are in the exploded view linked at the top of this post. The installation instructions are also linked. The process was almost identical to the mounting plate for the front caliper. Again, Torgue spec for the two 4mm hex bolts is 6-8 Nm. The two alloy washers pictured are not used here and were safely tucked into one of the aformentioned ziplock bags.
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4yp56kw3lts3jr/br-rs805.rear.caliper.build.002.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
Here it is with the adapter installed. Notice that I forgot to install the tiny little safety retainer pin into the small hole at bottom right. Doh!
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/73glkuhigb2j2uw/br-rs805.rear.caliper.build.003.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
Continued next post...
Messed Around with Disk Brake Calipers. There are lots of pictures and this might spill into a second post.
I say "Messed around" because some of what I did tonight will likely be undone at some point and it really was just an exercise in familiarity with the product. Having done countless brake jobs, a few big brake kits and even helped on a custom fabrication job in the automotive world I'm quite familiar with disk brake technology in general. The principals are the same but the parts sure are smaller! This is the first time I've worked on bicycle disk brakes.
The following documents were used:
Shimano Road Hydraulic Disk Brake Dealer's Manual
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-BR0004-05-ENG.pdf
Another Shimano Road Hydraulic Disk Brake Dealer's Manual
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-BR0008-08-ENG.pdf
Rear Disk Brake Mount Adapter for 160mm Rotors Service Instruction
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/si/SI-8NU0A-001-00-ENG.pdf
BR-RS805 Brake Caliper and SM-BH59 Brake Hose Exploded View with Part Numbers
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-BR-RS805-3852A.pdf
Calipers are BR-RS805 flat mount which were purchased as part of a Shimano bundle along with ST-R785RL Di2 Levers, brake hoses, pads and fluid. Everything came neatly packaged in a single Shimano box. https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-BR0004-05-ENG.pdf
Another Shimano Road Hydraulic Disk Brake Dealer's Manual
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-BR0008-08-ENG.pdf
Rear Disk Brake Mount Adapter for 160mm Rotors Service Instruction
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/si/SI-8NU0A-001-00-ENG.pdf
BR-RS805 Brake Caliper and SM-BH59 Brake Hose Exploded View with Part Numbers
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-BR-RS805-3852A.pdf
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/uecarl8ghewk3wh/st-r785.levers.and.br-rs805.calipers.bundle.001.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/mxwd2pzbu4ehg5w/st-r785.levers.and.br-rs805.calipers.bundle.003.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
There were several small bags with a myriad of small parts and so the first thing I did was arrange a well lit work area and several small ziplock bags so that the parts didn't get mixed up or lost. The front caliper is pictured below as it appears out of the box with a mounting plate attached to the bottom.
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxt3yj8umutomvv/br-rs805.front.caliper.new.002.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
The note "UP for 140mm" printed on the mounting plate refers to 140mm rotors. This bike will be using 160mm rotors and the plate is reversible to accommodate the larger disks.
A small safety retaining pin keeps the caliper from falling off should the mounting plate bolts come loose. The pin was pulled using small needle-nose pliers - ziplock bags come in handy here. The two 4mm bolts were removed from the bottom of the plate, it was flipped 180° and reinstalled using a dab of blue threadlocker. Torque spec is 6-8 Nm. The pin was then reinstalled. Note that the plate now says "UP for 160mm" on the outside.
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/qq8wozjr58oaqi7/br-rs805.rear.caliper.build.001.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
The rear caliper comes with no such mounting plate. The Niner frame is designed to accept the caliper without a mounting plate when using 140mm rotors. A Shimano SM-MA-R160 D/D adapter is used to space the caliper an additional 10mm away from the axle to accommodate the larger rotors. There are literally dozens of different adapters and "Answerer of Questions" Chris Wolff @ Niner quickly came up with the exact part number needed.
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/1hx8xziiwqsmvbx/rear.brake.adapter.for.160mm.rotors.001.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/n0xguj693boagtl/rear.brake.adapter.for.160mm.rotors.003.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
Additional part numbers for the adapter are in the exploded view linked at the top of this post. The installation instructions are also linked. The process was almost identical to the mounting plate for the front caliper. Again, Torgue spec for the two 4mm hex bolts is 6-8 Nm. The two alloy washers pictured are not used here and were safely tucked into one of the aformentioned ziplock bags.
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4yp56kw3lts3jr/br-rs805.rear.caliper.build.002.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
Here it is with the adapter installed. Notice that I forgot to install the tiny little safety retainer pin into the small hole at bottom right. Doh!
[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/73glkuhigb2j2uw/br-rs805.rear.caliper.build.003.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
Continued next post...
I lucked out...Performance was selling the R785 levers and BR-R785 post-mount brakes for my build on sale (with bleed kit) over the weekend. I double checked to make sure I was getting post-mount like I needed, Did a doubletake/check when I saw your build kit.
You didn't get any E-Tube wires in your kit did you?
Last edited by Marcus_Ti; 03-29-17 at 07:18 AM.
03-29-17, 07:57 AM
#56
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Thanks for posting this guide.
I lucked out...Performance was selling the R785 levers and BR-R785 post-mount brakes for my build on sale (with bleed kit) over the weekend. I double checked to make sure I was getting post-mount like I needed, Did a doubletake/check when I saw your build kit.
You didn't get any E-Tube wires in your kit did you?
I lucked out...Performance was selling the R785 levers and BR-R785 post-mount brakes for my build on sale (with bleed kit) over the weekend. I double checked to make sure I was getting post-mount like I needed, Did a doubletake/check when I saw your build kit.
You didn't get any E-Tube wires in your kit did you?
I understand about the doubletake, must have been like WTF???
I was careful about what I purchased to the point of being retentive and pretty much got Chris Wolff at Niner to hate me with all my questions. Did wires come with your kit? Where are you purchasing yours? Who has the best price?
Here is what I purchased. They have RS805 flat mount and RS785 post mount versions. The price went up $20 in the past two weeks. Ribble wants +$90 for the same thing.No wires came in the kit. Hydraulics only. It also did not come with a bleed kit.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 03-29-17 at 08:09 AM.
03-29-17, 08:09 AM
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I understand about the doubletake, must have been like WTF??? I was careful about what I purchased to the point of being retentive and pretty much got Chris Wolff at Niner to hate me with all my questions.
Did wires come with your kit? Where are you purchasing yours? Who has the best price?
Here is what I purchased. They have RS805 flat mount and RS785 post mount versions. The price went up $20 in the past two weeks. Ribble wants +$90 for the same thing.No wires came in the kit. Hydraulics only. It also did not come with a bleed kit.
-Tim-
I was careful about what I purchased to the point of being retentive and pretty much got Chris Wolff at Niner to hate me with all my questions. Did wires come with your kit? Where are you purchasing yours? Who has the best price?
Here is what I purchased. They have RS805 flat mount and RS785 post mount versions. The price went up $20 in the past two weeks. Ribble wants +$90 for the same thing.No wires came in the kit. Hydraulics only. It also did not come with a bleed kit.
-Tim-
Mine was straight ST-R785 levers and BR-R785 brakes. I forgot about the revision to RS levers. Mine hasn't come yet, no tracking data yet, don't know if it comes with E-Tube wiring or not. Got derailleurs and battery cheap off JensonUSA, that stuff comes Monday.
From what I've read sometimes these combo packs come with wires and sometimes not.
03-31-17, 09:27 AM
#58
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03-31-17
Derailleur Hanger Fail.
This is the first real challenge and a slightly expensive one at that. The Parlee carbon derailleur hanger I was going to use fits neither the frame nor the Shimano FD-6870 Di2 derailleur.
An early April fool's joke? I was not aware that Di2 derailleur clamps were different from non Di2 models and I guess that makes me the fool. The radius of the clamp and derailleur are clearly different in the photo above. Parlee however, claims that their clamp is...
Maybe I recieved an incompatible pre-revamp clamp but I've neither the patience nor the will to spend the money on a second Parlee claimp to find out, especially given that the clamp does not fit the frame.
Or maybe the frame doesn't fit the clamp? Niner claims that the frame requires a 34.9 clamp but my calipers measure the clamp location at 35.5.
I've ordered a Di2 specific Dura Ace clamp and will report success or failure when that arrives.
-Tim-
Derailleur Hanger Fail.
This is the first real challenge and a slightly expensive one at that. The Parlee carbon derailleur hanger I was going to use fits neither the frame nor the Shimano FD-6870 Di2 derailleur.
An early April fool's joke? I was not aware that Di2 derailleur clamps were different from non Di2 models and I guess that makes me the fool. The radius of the clamp and derailleur are clearly different in the photo above. Parlee however, claims that their clamp is...
revamped with increased stiffness for shifts under load and compatibility with Di2 and EPS shift systems.
https://store.parleecycles.com/produ...railleur-clamp
https://store.parleecycles.com/produ...railleur-clamp
Or maybe the frame doesn't fit the clamp? Niner claims that the frame requires a 34.9 clamp but my calipers measure the clamp location at 35.5.
I've ordered a Di2 specific Dura Ace clamp and will report success or failure when that arrives.
-Tim-
03-31-17, 09:54 AM
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Dang,that little bit of CF costs $100?
03-31-17, 10:25 AM
#61
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No, not if you shop around and get creative. 
I didn't buy it from Parlee but all the same, I've already ordered the Dura Ace Di2 specific clamp. At $12 it will be much easier to swallow if it doesn't fit the frame.
The frame with its slightly oversized seat tube is really what has me concerned. I don't know what to do if the Shimano part doesn't fit. Niner already told me that they don't sell their clamp apart from fully built bikes. I can't believe I'm the only one to have ever built one of these.
Getting ahead of myself though and worrying about things I can't control isn't doing any good. I'll email Parlee about the clamp another time and live with the Shimano clamp for now.
Be like water... flow around the obstacle.
-Tim-
The frame with its slightly oversized seat tube is really what has me concerned. I don't know what to do if the Shimano part doesn't fit. Niner already told me that they don't sell their clamp apart from fully built bikes. I can't believe I'm the only one to have ever built one of these.
Getting ahead of myself though and worrying about things I can't control isn't doing any good. I'll email Parlee about the clamp another time and live with the Shimano clamp for now.
Be like water... flow around the obstacle.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 03-31-17 at 10:28 AM.
03-31-17, 05:16 PM
#62
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03-31-17
Derailleur Hanger Fail update...
The issue has been escalated to engineering at Niner. I'm going to wait to hear what they say but this is to Niner's credit.
In the meantime I've managed to scrounge a run-of-the-mill Shimano 34.9mm clamp and am satisfied with the fit. This isn't a Di2 clamp so it won't be the one used on the bike but is enough to set my mind at ease. If the Dura Ace clamp I've ordered fits similarly then I'll count it as education and move on with life.
It will still be interesting to hear what Niner says though. This is my first carbon frame and the answer could very well be end-user ignorance. I really, really wanted the clamp to work but two things are perfectly clear; 1) the Parlee clamp is a no-go for this build and, 2) you can't always get what you want.
Derailleur Hanger Fail update...
The issue has been escalated to engineering at Niner. I'm going to wait to hear what they say but this is to Niner's credit.
In the meantime I've managed to scrounge a run-of-the-mill Shimano 34.9mm clamp and am satisfied with the fit. This isn't a Di2 clamp so it won't be the one used on the bike but is enough to set my mind at ease. If the Dura Ace clamp I've ordered fits similarly then I'll count it as education and move on with life.
It will still be interesting to hear what Niner says though. This is my first carbon frame and the answer could very well be end-user ignorance. I really, really wanted the clamp to work but two things are perfectly clear; 1) the Parlee clamp is a no-go for this build and, 2) you can't always get what you want.
Last edited by TimothyH; 03-31-17 at 05:27 PM.
04-01-17, 06:04 PM
#63
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04-01-17
Brake calipers were mounted to the frame.
According to Shimano, mounting calipers to the frame should be one of the last steps in the process of installing brakes. Their documentation says to clamp the calipers into a vise for bleeding but if that's the case then how do internal hydraulic hoses get routed? It doesn't make sense to me and so I mounted the calipers on the frame before plumbing the lines.
Front calipers just bolted on using the fasteners supplied with the brake kit. A snap ring attaches to the head of the bottom bolt as insurance against the bolt loosening. Serrated bolt heads designed to accept the snap ring and the ring itself can be seen in the second photo below. A small amount of grease was applied to the threads in lieu of threadlocker as these bolts will have to be loosened to center the caliper as part of routine maintenance.
The rear caliper mounts by way of bolts which pass through the chainstay and fasten to the underside of the caliper, or in this case, to the underside of the adapter plate beneath the caliper. Bolt length is determined by the thickness of the chainstay and Shimano supplies a wierd "Bolt length selector" tool to assist with determining whether the bolts for any given application are the correct length. The tool is the yellow part in the photo below and it told me what I already knew; the bolts supplied with the calipers were too short. The photo below shows how the correct length bolt is supposed to look with just the tip visible in the pocket of the tool.
A chart in the documentation is much more useful than the tool, especially when calipers are available. The Niner chainstays are 30 mm and the bolts in the brake kit fell short by 5 mm. The chart even gives the Shimano part number.
$11 and a four day wait brought two Shimano BR5121, 43 mm flat mount caliper bolts to the doorstep. These mounted head down through the chainstay and screwed into the underside of the adapter plate. Again, a dab of grease was applied to the threads. Note the alloy washers between the bolt head and chainstay - Shimano calls these out as a necessity. Finally, a retention clip goes onto the end of the rear mounting bolt.
-Tim-
Brake calipers were mounted to the frame.
According to Shimano, mounting calipers to the frame should be one of the last steps in the process of installing brakes. Their documentation says to clamp the calipers into a vise for bleeding but if that's the case then how do internal hydraulic hoses get routed? It doesn't make sense to me and so I mounted the calipers on the frame before plumbing the lines.
Front calipers just bolted on using the fasteners supplied with the brake kit. A snap ring attaches to the head of the bottom bolt as insurance against the bolt loosening. Serrated bolt heads designed to accept the snap ring and the ring itself can be seen in the second photo below. A small amount of grease was applied to the threads in lieu of threadlocker as these bolts will have to be loosened to center the caliper as part of routine maintenance.
The rear caliper mounts by way of bolts which pass through the chainstay and fasten to the underside of the caliper, or in this case, to the underside of the adapter plate beneath the caliper. Bolt length is determined by the thickness of the chainstay and Shimano supplies a wierd "Bolt length selector" tool to assist with determining whether the bolts for any given application are the correct length. The tool is the yellow part in the photo below and it told me what I already knew; the bolts supplied with the calipers were too short. The photo below shows how the correct length bolt is supposed to look with just the tip visible in the pocket of the tool.
A chart in the documentation is much more useful than the tool, especially when calipers are available. The Niner chainstays are 30 mm and the bolts in the brake kit fell short by 5 mm. The chart even gives the Shimano part number.
$11 and a four day wait brought two Shimano BR5121, 43 mm flat mount caliper bolts to the doorstep. These mounted head down through the chainstay and screwed into the underside of the adapter plate. Again, a dab of grease was applied to the threads. Note the alloy washers between the bolt head and chainstay - Shimano calls these out as a necessity. Finally, a retention clip goes onto the end of the rear mounting bolt.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 04-01-17 at 06:10 PM.
04-01-17, 08:51 PM
#65
Behold my avatar:
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Nice bike!
Is it just me, or does the wheelbase eyeball very short?
Is it just me, or does the wheelbase eyeball very short?
04-01-17, 10:57 PM
#66
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I suspect there is a little barrel distortion from the wide angle lense on the iPhone 6 used to take the photos.
It is a size 53.
-Tim-
It is a size 53.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 04-02-17 at 06:32 PM.
04-03-17, 12:41 PM
#67
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04-03-17, 02:37 PM
#69
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
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Now that is funny, Tim.
04-03-17, 10:07 PM
#71
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04-03-17
Stem and handlebar were attached.
Stem is a Niner RDO and the handlebar is a carbon Easton EC70 AX with 16° flare. These are the same parts as the factory Five Star build.
This is the first time I've dealt with a compression plug and Niner has little information about the one that comes with this frame. ENVE has some nice videos however and the one below was my source for information on how to make the thing work.
The Niner part seem functionally identical to the one in the video and installed exactly the same.
Unlike steel and aluminum steerers, the stem on a carbon steerer has to be supported by the compression plug. This means that the stem has to go at the top of the steerer where the plug sits. A stack of spacers went on the steerer, then the stem, one more spacer and then the Niner top cap. The top cap was tightened while rocking the bike back and forth until no play in the headset bearings could be felt. At this point the stem bolts were tightened to 5 Nm. Conveniently, the two 4 mm bolts were greased by Niner before the stem was packaged.
The handlebar has a textured surface at the stem contact point but carbon fiber assembly paste was applied to the inside surfaces of the stem just to be sure. The four face plate bolts were dabbed with grease and the bar went on, centered and level by eye. 5 Nm is the torque spec for the face plate bolts.
The photos below are obviously with an uncut steerer and it does look ridiculous so go ahead and laugh. Comfort in the drops is a major goal of this build and so the steerer will not be cut until I can be reasonably certain and then incrementally. Actually, I'm quite certain that a significant portion of the steerer can go away now and need to look for a 32 tpi hacksaw blade in my stack of stuff.
I just noticed that the faceplate is upside down.
At this point I did something radical. Like the old boneshakers, I coasted it down the driveway and out to the Cul de Sac. Wide tires feel weird and the saddle was raised 1 cm as soon as I got back to the garage.
It looks like one of those tall bikes they post in the Alt Bike Culture forum.
-Tim-
Stem and handlebar were attached.
Stem is a Niner RDO and the handlebar is a carbon Easton EC70 AX with 16° flare. These are the same parts as the factory Five Star build.
This is the first time I've dealt with a compression plug and Niner has little information about the one that comes with this frame. ENVE has some nice videos however and the one below was my source for information on how to make the thing work.
The Niner part seem functionally identical to the one in the video and installed exactly the same.
Unlike steel and aluminum steerers, the stem on a carbon steerer has to be supported by the compression plug. This means that the stem has to go at the top of the steerer where the plug sits. A stack of spacers went on the steerer, then the stem, one more spacer and then the Niner top cap. The top cap was tightened while rocking the bike back and forth until no play in the headset bearings could be felt. At this point the stem bolts were tightened to 5 Nm. Conveniently, the two 4 mm bolts were greased by Niner before the stem was packaged.
The handlebar has a textured surface at the stem contact point but carbon fiber assembly paste was applied to the inside surfaces of the stem just to be sure. The four face plate bolts were dabbed with grease and the bar went on, centered and level by eye. 5 Nm is the torque spec for the face plate bolts.
The photos below are obviously with an uncut steerer and it does look ridiculous so go ahead and laugh. Comfort in the drops is a major goal of this build and so the steerer will not be cut until I can be reasonably certain and then incrementally. Actually, I'm quite certain that a significant portion of the steerer can go away now and need to look for a 32 tpi hacksaw blade in my stack of stuff.
I just noticed that the faceplate is upside down.
At this point I did something radical. Like the old boneshakers, I coasted it down the driveway and out to the Cul de Sac. Wide tires feel weird and the saddle was raised 1 cm as soon as I got back to the garage.
It looks like one of those tall bikes they post in the Alt Bike Culture forum.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 04-03-17 at 10:13 PM.
04-03-17, 10:13 PM
#72
staring at the mountains
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das allatta steerer, bad juju for carbon. I imagine you'll trim her up once you dial in the fit
on another note, LOOKING GREAT
on another note, LOOKING GREAT
04-04-17, 07:12 AM
#73
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04-04-17
Played with fit a little this morning.
I read that Niner recommends only 40 mm spacers below the stem but I think it was a document specific to mountain bike forks from 2013. I'm not really sure what's safe and what's not in terms of exposed steerer above the headset. 60 mm spacers in the photos below.
-Tim-
Played with fit a little this morning.
I read that Niner recommends only 40 mm spacers below the stem but I think it was a document specific to mountain bike forks from 2013. I'm not really sure what's safe and what's not in terms of exposed steerer above the headset. 60 mm spacers in the photos below.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 04-04-17 at 07:15 AM.
04-05-17, 05:38 PM
#74
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04-06-17
Levers, cranks, pedals and rear derailleur went on.
Cranks are Shimano Ultegra 6800 with 50/34 gearing and 170mm crank arms.
The temporary 105 cranks came off and the bottom bracket was checked to make sure the dust seals were intact. The 0.5 mm nylon spacers which came with the Enduro bottom bracket were retrieved off the old crankset. These went on the new crank spindle and a thin layer of Mobile1 synthetic grease was applied. The crank spindle slid through the bottom bracket bearings without issue and the non-drive side crank arm was fitted. The arm only goes on one way.
Extra care must be taken to ensure that the crank arm "stopper plate" is installed correctly. The word "stopper" refers to stopping the crank arm from falling off. The inside pinch bolt holds the plate captive while it rotates down around the outside pinch bolt. A pin on the plate engages a hole in the crank spindle and this is prevents the arm from falling off should the pinch bolts become loose.
A plastic thingamajig cap or plug screws into the non-drive side end of the crank spindle and is tightened with a Shimano proprietary tool. The plastic cap's function is to pull the drive and non-drive side crank arms together and Shimano's torque spec is 0.7-1.5 Nm. Enduro however, uses the same plastic thing to set preload on the angular contact bearings and their spec is 3 Nm for steel bearings, 7 Nm for ceramic bearings. I went with the Enduro spec and quadruple checked for proper preload - no side to side play and crank arms spin freely. The non-drive size crank arm pinch bolts were greased and tightened little by little to 12-14 Nm.
The photo below shows the proprietary Shimano tool tightening the plastic cap doohickey.
Shimano PD-M8000 Deore XT mountain bike pedals were attached to the crank arms after a generous application of grease to the threads. These don't have wrench flats on the shaft which saves weight but the tradeoff is more cumbersome installation and removal. An 8 mm hex wrench interfaces with the pedals from the inside of the crank arms and this design makes it especially difficult to remove the pedals when they are over tightened, as they invariably are. The torque spec is printed right on the pedal and was completely ignored.
Cleat tension is set by way of 2.5 mm hex screws visible near the +/- gradations in the photo below. These rotate from the loosest to tightest release five full turns and were set 1.5 turns from the loosest setting as a starting point.
Continued next post...
Levers, cranks, pedals and rear derailleur went on.
Cranks are Shimano Ultegra 6800 with 50/34 gearing and 170mm crank arms.
The temporary 105 cranks came off and the bottom bracket was checked to make sure the dust seals were intact. The 0.5 mm nylon spacers which came with the Enduro bottom bracket were retrieved off the old crankset. These went on the new crank spindle and a thin layer of Mobile1 synthetic grease was applied. The crank spindle slid through the bottom bracket bearings without issue and the non-drive side crank arm was fitted. The arm only goes on one way.
Extra care must be taken to ensure that the crank arm "stopper plate" is installed correctly. The word "stopper" refers to stopping the crank arm from falling off. The inside pinch bolt holds the plate captive while it rotates down around the outside pinch bolt. A pin on the plate engages a hole in the crank spindle and this is prevents the arm from falling off should the pinch bolts become loose.
A plastic thingamajig cap or plug screws into the non-drive side end of the crank spindle and is tightened with a Shimano proprietary tool. The plastic cap's function is to pull the drive and non-drive side crank arms together and Shimano's torque spec is 0.7-1.5 Nm. Enduro however, uses the same plastic thing to set preload on the angular contact bearings and their spec is 3 Nm for steel bearings, 7 Nm for ceramic bearings. I went with the Enduro spec and quadruple checked for proper preload - no side to side play and crank arms spin freely. The non-drive size crank arm pinch bolts were greased and tightened little by little to 12-14 Nm.
The photo below shows the proprietary Shimano tool tightening the plastic cap doohickey.
Shimano PD-M8000 Deore XT mountain bike pedals were attached to the crank arms after a generous application of grease to the threads. These don't have wrench flats on the shaft which saves weight but the tradeoff is more cumbersome installation and removal. An 8 mm hex wrench interfaces with the pedals from the inside of the crank arms and this design makes it especially difficult to remove the pedals when they are over tightened, as they invariably are. The torque spec is printed right on the pedal and was completely ignored.
Cleat tension is set by way of 2.5 mm hex screws visible near the +/- gradations in the photo below. These rotate from the loosest to tightest release five full turns and were set 1.5 turns from the loosest setting as a starting point.
Continued next post...
Last edited by TimothyH; 04-05-17 at 07:30 PM.
04-05-17, 05:39 PM
#75
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...continued from previous post.
A Shimano Ultegra RD-6870 Di2 "mid cage" GS derailleur attached to the derailleur hanger via a 6 mm bolt with a dab of blue threadlocker on the threads. Shimano torque spec is 8-10 Nm. The photo below shows the back of the derailleur. Everyone knows what the front of a derailleur looks like. The instructions mention and on/off switch but I can't find it.
Shimano officially supports 32 tooth cassettes with GS derailleurs but this build uses a lower geared 36 tooth SRAM cassette. The B screw on the derailleur controls the height of the idler pulleys relative to the largest sprocket and so the screw was turned almost all the way clockwise prior to installation in the hopes that the pulley would clear the cassette. I'd like to know for sure if it will clear the cassette but I'm not sure if Di2 derailleurs can be damaged by being pushed manually and so will have to defer for now.
This is the B screw...
This is how the B screw interfaces with the derailleur hanger...
The 3 mm bolt holding the derailleur hanger to the frame, visible just below and to the right of the axle threads, was pretty loose.
Just in case anyone forgot what a derailleur looks like...
I was working outside and at this point a thunderstorm hit. The wheels went on, everything was brought inside and the levers were put on indoors.
Levers are Shimano ST-R785 Di2/hydraulic and I'll post more details about these after the hoses are plumbed and the system bled. The covers were pulled back and a 5 mm hex head is used to loosen the circular clamps which hold the lever to the bar. I took the clamps completely off and slid them onto the bar independent of the levers out of fear of damaging the carbon bar.
Photos of the install were accidentally deleted so you will just have to take my word for it. Here is what the back side of the right (rear) lever looks like.
And the requisite progress photo. Still messing with fit.
-Tim-
A Shimano Ultegra RD-6870 Di2 "mid cage" GS derailleur attached to the derailleur hanger via a 6 mm bolt with a dab of blue threadlocker on the threads. Shimano torque spec is 8-10 Nm. The photo below shows the back of the derailleur. Everyone knows what the front of a derailleur looks like. The instructions mention and on/off switch but I can't find it.
Shimano officially supports 32 tooth cassettes with GS derailleurs but this build uses a lower geared 36 tooth SRAM cassette. The B screw on the derailleur controls the height of the idler pulleys relative to the largest sprocket and so the screw was turned almost all the way clockwise prior to installation in the hopes that the pulley would clear the cassette. I'd like to know for sure if it will clear the cassette but I'm not sure if Di2 derailleurs can be damaged by being pushed manually and so will have to defer for now.
This is the B screw...
This is how the B screw interfaces with the derailleur hanger...
The 3 mm bolt holding the derailleur hanger to the frame, visible just below and to the right of the axle threads, was pretty loose.
Just in case anyone forgot what a derailleur looks like...
I was working outside and at this point a thunderstorm hit. The wheels went on, everything was brought inside and the levers were put on indoors.
Levers are Shimano ST-R785 Di2/hydraulic and I'll post more details about these after the hoses are plumbed and the system bled. The covers were pulled back and a 5 mm hex head is used to loosen the circular clamps which hold the lever to the bar. I took the clamps completely off and slid them onto the bar independent of the levers out of fear of damaging the carbon bar.
Photos of the install were accidentally deleted so you will just have to take my word for it. Here is what the back side of the right (rear) lever looks like.
And the requisite progress photo. Still messing with fit.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 04-07-17 at 07:13 AM.