robnol

its about selling grossly over priced products or placebos for riders to give them a sense of faster or more aero ...recumbents actually are more aero faster is rider specific

friday1970

My Baron Lowracer does have its advantages and disadvantages compared to my small fleet of DFs.

The advantages: On smooth flat roads, I'm a bit quicker, about 2mph faster usually. And on downhills, I'm far faster than when on my DF's. There is the view from the seat. I see everything in front of me. And with the mirrors on the handlebars, a firm view of what is coming up behind me. I feel safer riding it on the roads because of the mirrors. And because of the good views in front of me, I don't see my bike computers as much, and thus, the miles seems to fly by faster. Oh, and the feeling I'm on my couch, pedaling the afternoon away.

The disadvantages: Hills. I hate them on my bent, and I'm slower by a 1-2mph on most hills. And they take more work and energy. On shorter rides, this isn't too much of an issue. But as I've taken up riding 200-300k brevets lately, a few thousand feet of climbing does add up. This has caused me to use my DF on hillier events, where I'm less tired at the 100 mile mark than I would be with my Baron. Also, crank sizes. On my DF's, I'm fine with 170mm cranks. I recently switched to 165mm cranks from 155mm for more leverage with the local hills, but this has caused knee pain. Also some achilles heel soreness. So, I'm going back to 155mm cranks.
Bumpy roads and chipseal ruin my rides too. On smooth flat roads, my Baron is always faster. Put chipseal on that road, then it can become unrideable on my Baron. The vibrations from chipseal not only slow me down, but also shake my eyes to the point that it's hard to focus (put your fingers on the temples of your head, rub back and forth as fast as you can. Now double it. That's how bad some chipseal is around here). Hard bumps have also caused some headaches after a ride too.
And the last disadvantage is rain. Because I'm always looking up due to the low seat angle, if it rains, I cannot look down. On my DF, I can look down the avoid the rain hitting my face or sun glasses. No such luck on the bent. If there is a hint of possible rain during a planned session, I take my DF instead.

Overall, I prefer the Baron over the DF's. But it all depends where I ride, and what type of terrain and/or weather.

79pmooney

UCI only has jurisdiction over those (race organizations and riders) who choose to operate under the UCI banner (or the national organizations that choose to operate under UCI. Anybody can create a race, a full competition. It may well be that nobody will show up because riding it would invalidate their status as a racer of UCI events but that doesn't prevent someone for creating the race. (The Red Hook fix gear criteriums may now be UCI sanctioned but they were not when they started.)

Ben

robnol

I never ride in the rain its not safe in my opinion...and makes for a lot of bike cleaning afterwards....I agree with everything u said....no saddle discomfort or neck discomfort either on the recumbent....staring down at the road in my aero bars on my df makes for a boring ride...using both recumbent and the df has made my legs much stronger and is a great training technique

StephenH

There are a number of longer-distance events that are not UCI- the 6/12/24 hour, 500 mile races, RAAM, etc. And some local shorter-distance events, usually of a more informal nature.

rossiny

I always thought that amazing nobody has improved on the diamond triangle design of the bike frame. Aerodynamics play a huge roll at speed. Your body being the most wind resistance. But the comment about rough roads being a problem or hills , can not be dismissed. Yes you are way more aerodynamic, but you can't stand up or bunny hop over bumps. Yes the recumbent takes pressure off your crotch witch is good. I still think there may be a different design to come like a cyborg type with wheels, that let both your upper and lower body propell you. Just wondering if anything like that has been drawn up yet.?

StephenH

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but there have been endless variations on all style bikes. For example, note that the "SoftRide" time-trial/tri bikes are upright frames that are not the diamond shape. There have been bicycles propelled by both arm and leg motion. There are a couple of problems. One is, it's a lot of extra complication and weight, so fitness may be a selling point, but speed isn't. Secondly, if your legs are in good racing shape, you're likely limited by heart/lung capacity rather than leg muscles, so adding arms to the power doesn't really help that much. On odd recumbent designs, there have been some "prone" designs, where you lay face down, head forward, which is great for aerodynamics and bad for everything else (should be some videos on youtube if you look there.) But pretty much every conceivable layout of upright and recumbent bike has been built somewhere over the last 100 years, and if a new design becomes popular, it's more likely due to better execution of the design, better materials, or better marketing, rather than just an improved configuration.

prathmann

If you want to have a car to race in sanctioned events like Formula 1, Nascar, or Indy, you better build it to the specifications called for by the regulating bodies just the same as you'd have to abide by UCI rules to compete in the bicycle races they sanction. But just because Honda is constrained by the rules to build their F1 cars with under 98 cu. in. displacement, rear-wheel drive only, and a height of 37" it doesn't keep them from building SUVs, mini-vans, and other cars that are more suited to the every day driving of most consumers. Similarly Trek, Specialized, Giant, etc. are free to build bicycles with whatever designs they think will meet the needs of their customers - and only a minuscule fraction of those customers will care about UCI rules.

downtube42

If I find some DFs to ride with on the flats, I'll turn myself inside out to keep in contact on climbs, then feather my brakes on descents. Alternatively if they choose to match me, they'll loaf on climbs and work like dogs descending. On a Brevet, virtually every time, somebody will crack and we go our separate ways. Unless theres some motivation to stay together, like a fleche or for safety, that's just how it is.

robnol

not completely true all df bikes are essentially the same....even the softride is just a df bike with the seatpost and seat stay removed....the recumbent bike frames are only limited by the builders imagination...full suspension ,front wheel drive, low or high racer,,different size tires ,ect…..

BlazingPedals

Hmm... My typical pattern on a club ride is to go off the front on downhills and flats, climb alone, and wait as long as I need to regroup at the top. Doing anything else is giving up all your advantages.

fietsbob

Add a Velomobiles aerodynamic shape & you have a real winner..

Steamer

You guys are talking about pretty different ride contexts.

BlazingPedals

Probably. Downtube42 is talking about meeting some random cyclist of unknown capabilities, when neither of them have much of an incentive to hang together.

Steamer

Exactly. My experience is that most riders in most cases on a randonnee have a bit of a loner mindset. It's out of necessity, not any personality defect. (Usually ) You can't successfully do long distance if you are constantly chasing rabbits or holding way back when you could be putting time in the bank.

robnol

not true as a loner myself theres nothing more motivating than coming on a fellow biker and trying to pass them ..no one likes to be passed it end up being a mini race to see what the other guys got or who will fold first...putting ur training to the test...as far as long distances go that's never been a problem I do 50+ miles routinely...trying to see just how long I can maintain my race pace...

Steamer

You do these little races on randonnees?

cat0020

Whether you are cycling for sport or transportation, a rider's physical limitation determines how far/fast you can go on a bike.
Personally, after riding on upright bicycles for over 25 years (and counting) and recumbent bicycles for over 10 years (and counting);
a recumbent allows me to ride further and faster with less discomfort on my body.
I recover quicker after a hard recumbent ride vs upright bicycle (Road, MTB, cyclocross, etc).
I feel more relaxed, less stressed on a recumbent, even when riding at higher speed.
The downside is that group recumbent rides are harder to find, riding a recumbent with upright cycling group doesn't have quite the same comradery.
Ultimately, cycling is a solo sport, unless you have a stoker with you on every ride.

Yes, transporting a recumbent can be a big disadvantage.

BlazingPedals

I find that riding WITH the uprights is harder than riding off the front on my own. On flats, I loaf, on the downhills I ride my brakes. In a group, everyone not in front does this too, but I do it more. On climbs, I try to modulate my efforts - they all slow down more quickly than me, so I have to hit my brakes at the start of the climb. Then they all stand on their pedals and dance away, leaving me to 'dial it up to 400W" to catch back up.

So riding this way consists of going easy, going easy, then slowing even more before launching an all-out sprint. Doing sprint intervals like that is a great workout; but not so great for surviving a longer ride.

robnol

I find that riding my df bike is not as enjoyable as my recumbent highracer….looking straight ahead instead of staring at the road between my thumbs in my aero bars, laying back no neck or saddle discomfort...all this and way more aero than anybody on an upright....

robnol

don't ride a recumbent like ur on an upright ...ur not different techniques and strategies are required...

79pmooney

+1 (says a non-recumbent life-long fixed gear rider) I've done several Cycle Oregon's fixed. I roll very differently from the geared bikes. One the flat I may well be the same. Coming into a hill, I make a real effort to either have no one in front of me or a good passing lane because I will be out of the saddle and powering while they are finding their little gears. I start planning well in advance. On rollers I just let the geared folk go at the top, ride easy going down, then floor it across the bottom and hit the hill with all the speed I can find. Then I fly past the geared folk doing their search for the low ones. Keep it pedal to the metal to the top if that is feasible.

I'm not saying this is what recumbents should do. We all have to figure out what works for us, our bikes and other riders.

Ben

BlazingPedals

As I said, it's easier to do my own pace. To actually stay WITH them the whole way is tough! You give up all of your advantages and then try to compete where you're weaker. My weight is my biggest liability when it comes to climbing.

rydabent

While prices somewhat high due to low volume bents and trikes are not obscenely over priced like $15,000 plastic bikes.

rydabent

If you look at the whole cycling deal, many want to hang on to a bike design that was invented in 1890. While a modified version of it is great for single tracking and mountain biking, some of the negatives of that design suggest we should move on to newer and better designs. The main drawback of the pure diamond frame design is the tiny seat that DOES cause pain in the rump, no matter how much a small group of nay sayers claim it doesnt. The other is the fact to go faster riders jack the seat way up and put the handle bars way down. That causes two problems, first is the rider is bent clear over compressing his chest area limiting his breathing ability. Second it puts the rider in such a head down position that it is hard to see where he is going, which means he ends up staring at his front wheel much of the time.

So we come to recumbents, both bikes and trikes. They too have their own drawbacks. First the LWB bent are so long they are somewhat problematic to transport for their size, and the SWB are somewhat difficult to get used to riding with the feet so high off the ground. The drawback of trikes are of course their width.

Then of course comes to the advantages of recumbents. Fully open seating means full lungs for breathing. It also means setting upright gives the rider full 180 view plus. The comfort of setting on a large seat is of course a given. Trikes have their given of no tipping over, no need to unclip when stopped, and no need to find something to lean it against. Both bent and trikes have a more aero profile for reduced wind resistance for faster riding if that is what you want.

For the reasons above recumbent bikes and trikes are the modern alternative to the 1890 DF bike. Too many people keep hanging on to the antique design where it is not needed IMO. Casual riders would be far better served if they rode some form of a bent, for the number one reason, no pain.