gregf83 

Where do you come up with this nonsense? You may be sincere but you clearly haven't spent much time climbing hills. And while it's certainly feasible to train without hills, few would argue that training on the flats is more effective than actually training on the hills and grades you intend to race on. Riding up a 6% hill feels significantly different than riding on the flats at the same power. Similarly, I would expect that riding up a 12% hill would feel much different than a 6% hill even at the same power and cadence. It's often easier to do sustained efforts on a hill where there are few stop signs or intersections. Many have trouble finding a location near a city to ride steadily for 40-60 min.

antimonysarah

Make sure the road is open -- it wasn't yet last weekend (and hunting down the web site still has the 2013 dates -- which had it opening mid-May).

ThisIsNotMic

Last year I did plenty of runs there before the road was "open" officially, along with plenty of other people who were walking and I remember a few cyclists. It's the best time to be there actually, as you don't have to worry about cars. (There's just a gate to get past) As long as it's snow/ice free, I'm not too worried about the gate.

RollCNY

OP,
Something to think about: the article from the winner says he used his 36x32 and 36x36 and spun at 95 rpm, 385 watts, and watts/kg of 5.5. For 1:1 (34x34) to work for you, and be able to spin even at 80 rpm, you are going to have to put out 325 watts for 65 minutes (these are inexact estimates based on 84% of rpm). That is a big number, which is why many are saying train your ass off with whatever you have. To spin up Washington, you may well need a triple and MTB back end. And still need the ability to put out sustained wattage which is higher than most people here's 20 minute power.

ThisIsNotMic

Hey, completely agree. I'm not saying if I get a 1:1 I'm just going to cruise up the mountain, I was pointing out the 1:1 for the people who are STILL saying that my 34-26 is "plenty of gear to climb with" and those who are saying it's just a "hill in the northeast" so it can't be a real climb. Furthermore, not once have I said that because I ran at a high level ANY of that will translate to cycling and I don't need to train. Others have assumed I felt that way or put words in my mouth. My only criticism of those who have said "you need to train more" is that they assume that if I were to train my ass off, I could still conquer the "little hill" with a 34-26.
My plan is to train like crazy, I'm brand new to the sport so if I were to try the Mt Washington race this year it would only be for training purposes, there's no chance I'd be able to actually "race" up it. Thank you for the advice and the numbers, it's much appreciated.

banerjek

Once you get your cassette, don't try to spin your way all the way up.

Yes, spinning is more efficient than standing. But your legs are not an electric motor and once you burn out your spinning muscles, you'll be slow.

On sustained climbs, it's generally easiest to alternate spinning and standing, spending most of the time seated. When you stand, you'll almost always want to upshift one or two gears. As your spinning muscles recover (won't take long -- even 20 seconds of standing helps a lot), you can sit and repeate the process.

ThisIsNotMic

Really interesting and something I didn't know, but makes a lot of sense. Thanks very much.

RollCNY

And I am honestly not trying to give advice on gearing, because it is entirely subjective. I once had to climb several miles of 3-5% grade with an unrelenting 20 mph headwind, and my gearing was 47x16. I spent 45 minutes cranking at less than 30 rpm, and I didn't like it. I know bring an 18t freewheel to hilly rides. But I am a masher, I practice 30 rpm high resistance work, and have no interest in spinning hills. If I asked for gearing advice on the BF, I would have gotten many wonderful suggestions that would have little to do with how I ride.

So just realize most people here are trying to give decent advice, only their perspective of decent is way different.

Long Tom

This.

First- I'm no expert. Just started cycling a year ago. That said, for some reason (my buddy says masochism; is say he's a wuss who needs to HTFU, haha) I've gravitated to hills... lots of them, the steeper the better. There's plenty to be had around here. I think what I like is the finite, "real" aspect of a hill; as opposed to some manufactured interval or whatever, it's a tangible obstacle, with a beginning and an end. I also like.... well lets just be honest here, I'm among other addicts, lol... I LOVE the aerobic rush. Get off on it.

Anyway, bona fide's aside, in my opinion you definitely want to learn to alternate sitting and spinning (if possible*) with standing. Standing up feels soooo good sometimes; it completely changes the dynamic of what's going on, different muscles and uses the others differently as well. And allows for a nice stretch. I would hate climbing if all I could do was sit 'n spin. There's some technique involved. Standing cadence will be 2-3 gears away from sitting cadence. On steep stuff, you'll be going slow, and since you are clipped in (right?) making those shifts at low speed and under power means you have to do it right, and have a good functional drivetrain, because if you drop a chain you'll need to unclip FAST or you will find yourself doing the slo-mo "timber!" that results in this:



As to spinning, as the steepness gets up past 12% or so, even a road bike with appropriate gearing becomes a bit of a masher, unless you've got the power to keep a fast speed going. My bike has the 11-speed 6800 Ultegra, with the large cassette, which I'd have to go look up exactly what it is, but it's the same gear-inches as my triple. It's quite low. Even still I am mashing more than spinning while sitting when it gets really steep. To truly spin up steep grades you either need massive sustained power OR you'll need lower gearing than you'll get with any normal road bike setup.

However-- you'll see a huge improvement by upgrading your gearing as you are planning. You can then decide if that is "enough".

My climbs around here max out at about 1.5 miles long. I mean there's certainly longer, but in my regular routes, that's what I get. This last Xmas I did the Tramway Road climb out of Palm Springs, rated as the 2nd hardest climb in SoCal; perhaps it's comparable to your Mt. Washington climb? At any rate, it was brutal. The rental bike I was on had a compact, but didnt go as low as either my triple-equipped bike or my Roubaix. I was really missing that next lower gear. It makes a tremendous difference.

For grins, because I like the pic, here's me and my younger brother at the top of Tramway. HIS rental bike had gearing more like what you have. He had to walk the last 1/2 mile or so.

Jakedatc

he won't have to worry about dropping a chain on Washington... it'll be small ring from the get go and then just playing with cogs. differences in sitting to standing could be any number of gears apart depending on the terrain. that is kinda where more experience and technique would help.

Dan333SP

Thank you, sir.

blarnie

Let me put it more simply for you. New cyclist should not ride up hills so much as ride on flats. Perhaps you don't understand when you don't have the base already, putting an obstacle, like a grade of any note, limits the amount of power you can develop auto****ingmatically.

It's called dynamic range. Without creating a greater range first, you will always be limited by not having it.

As far as my hill climbing ability, I don't consider a single digit grade a hill.

BillyD

Is that where the two cents comes in?

Bandera

You are channeling my 1st coach's dicta, he'd put us on a ~70GI fixed gear road bike and tell us to get 500 miles in before Step #2 . This did not involve any terrain w/ the word "mountain" in it but it did develop a supple, powerful high cadence pedaling style that was fundamental to development in any cycling discipline.

Now back to your regularly scheduled brutal mountain climbing.......

-Bandera

waters60

The recommendation for Mt. Washington is a 1 -1 ratio and from my experience that is a very useful guideline, especially if once you get above treeline the wind is howling in your face as you go up a very steep pitch. You can do the research on whether a front triple + new derailleur vs. larger cassette + new derailleur is more expensive. I was able to use the crankset from my MTB, which gave me a 26 -26. I picked up a lower end Campy triple FD from Lick for $ 30.00. It does not sound like you are riding Mt. Washington this year, but Ascutney is open to riders any time and a good stand in.

RaleighSport

Silly question: Wouldn't the OP be able to set a bike on a trainer and turn the resistance up, do long spinning sessions and build up his hill climbing in the comfort of his own home?

Bandera

For a serious mountain climb time trial effort effective training will not contain the word "comfort".
High specificity in training requires doing the hard stuff, tough climbs require tough climbing.
Getting to intimately know the course by riding it will pay big dividends in kit selection and mental preparation on race day.

Getting a good base in ,doing high cadence work and all of the traditional work club cyclists put in is necessary but nothing substitutes for doing the climbs.

-Bandera

RaleighSport

All true, I just brought it up since I noticed my trainer regiments have made me a much stronger climber than I was before. Although I like the aspirations of the OP's intended climbs which for exceed my own.

2manybikes

Without reading the entire thread, I just want to mention the road up Mt.Washington is open to bicyclist one day, or possible two days, out of the whole year.

ThisIsNotMic

It's open 3 days. One day for each race, but also if you're a registered entrant in one of those races (I think it's Newton's) they have a course preview day where you are allowed to ride up.

Lee Eckhart

Have any of you done the Mount Washington Auto Road Hillclimb? I did it last year with a 12/36 and 48/34 and have to say, it was tough. I saw most of the middle of the road riders with crank chain rings in the 28, 26 and even 24 with 11/34 and 12/36. I'm planning my second run at it with the 12/36 but this time room to gain higher RPM's with a 40/28 or 38/26 crank. I'm also looking into changing the crank arm length to fit my inseam. Not sure what the best combination is yet. But no matter what I end up with, Washington is still going to be a challenge - but it is great to know you can do it!

Lee Eckhart

I’d recommend a new RD and 11-36 cassette. That will get u up Ascutney, Bear Notch, the Kanc and with a bit more effort, Mt Washington. For climbing at now age 69, I use a 48/26 chainring crank and 11-36 cassette. Mt. Washington 3 times and Pikes Peak once. Gets the job done. Hope this helps.

luevelvet

Two posts and they're in this thread, 5 years apart.

downhillmaster

Not sure why someone with injured knees would feel the need to climb hills comparable to a mountain.
Gearing is not his issue.
* my bad, just noticed this thread is ancient.

luevelvet

If you read the whole thread (yes, I went down that rabbit hole) you'll see that the knee issues weren't affecting his cycling. At any rate, I don't care, the guy had a simple question which I'm sure he has moved on from by now. lol