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27" to 700c conversion - worth it?

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Old 10-15-15, 10:40 AM
  #1  
ElTejon
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27" to 700c conversion - worth it?

Am restoring an old Dawes Galaxy and considering getting rid of the original 27" wheels (aluminum Weinmann rims) and building up new ones on 700c rims, either using the original hubs (high flange, Sunshine) or maybe shelling out for some new ones (Velo Orange makes a 126mm spaced rear hub that looks nice) or some nice used ones (Campy maybe). Does anyone have strong feelings about the advantages or disadvantages of converting to 700c on an old road bike? Biggest advantage it seems to me would be greater tire selection with 700c, as well as a bit more clearance in the frame to run a slightly wider tire in the rear. Does it change the way the bike rides/feels? The brakes are long enough to reach 700c rims, I'm pretty sure. I suppose an alternative is just getting new 27" rims and rebuilding with those. Any recommendations or thoughts about 27" rims that are available for sale these days would also be appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 10-15-15, 10:44 AM
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It really depends if you have a 700 tire you need to use and if a comparable tire is not available in a 27 inch size.

I'm going to do my 2cd conversation soon, but only because the current wheelset is tired and the tire I'm going to use is not available in a 27.
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Old 10-15-15, 10:52 AM
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Plus.
Fender clearance.
Tire selection.

I did it with my '83 Trek 620 to eliminate the original helicomatic hubs. Replaced with decent used wheels.
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Old 10-15-15, 10:53 AM
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If fitting wider tires is important to you, it can be worth it. Having the ability to use your existing brake calipers counts in favor of doing a conversion as well. Other than the advantages of cushy, wider tires, ride quality will not change as a result of the switch.
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Old 10-15-15, 10:53 AM
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Absolutely worth it.
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Old 10-15-15, 11:33 AM
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The only technical issue is whether the brakes will reach a rim 4mm further away. A minor technical issue is brake efficiency but we'll get to that in a minute.

The question you need to answer is "Why?" The usual answer is tire selection. If equivalent 27" tires are available and you don't want more clearance either for fenders or for a larger tire, then you have no need for the switch now. (For many applications I like the 25mm Panaracer Pasela, currently available in 27" and likely to stay so for a while.) If the wheels are getting old so you have reason to rebuild them with new rims anyway, then you might choose 700c just for future considerations.

If you do switch, the longer brake reach will reduce stopping power slightly. No, it isn't 4mm compared to the 311mm radius of the rim, and in any case the inertial torque on the rim at the road surface is reduced the same as the braking torque at the brake pads. Rather, it is 4mm compared to the 30 to 40mm (I'm guessing here) length of the brake caliper arms. The difference is real but if you have enough braking power anyway then it won't matter.

There are other differences which you may or may not feel. A 27" wheel has higher moment of inertia and therefore won't accelerate quite as easily. On the other hand it has greater angular momentum too so it coasts more easily. The differences are subtle but I believe I can feel both of these factors on my 27" wheel bikes, especially in the dead-zone carryover of the pedal stroke when going uphill.

Another difference is ride quality. The slightly larger longitudinal radius and higher air volume make the same size tire feel smoother over bumps for 27" vs. 700c.

Of course my perceptions may be wrong or imagined or due to frame differences. YMMV.

If it was my bike, I wouldn't switch over without a good reason.
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Old 10-15-15, 11:43 AM
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If you're going to rebuild or replace the wheels, you might as well go 700c for sake of tire selection, especially since it seems like you wouldn't have to replace your brake calipers. But in my opinion, switching to 700c isn't a compelling reason on its own to replace your wheels.
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Old 10-15-15, 11:44 AM
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Will it work? Mostly a matter of brake reach as previous guys said. Same as a 650b conversion, only less so.

Disadvantages...
Paying for all the new stuff
Bike runs ~4mm lower. Pedal strike?
If you have a kickstand on a bike that started with 630-32 and you put on 622-28, it might get tippy - this happened on my Super Sport, which has a built-in stand.

Advantages...
wheels that come with cassette hubs
nigh-infinite skinny tire selection
possibility of bigger tires (if you have the clearance for the width)
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Old 10-15-15, 11:50 AM
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OP seems to be saying he's going to rebuild the wheels either way.

If that's the case, I see no compelling reason not to switch to 700c unless you are worried about pedal strike.

I doubt that you will be able to feel much difference in how the bike rides/handles, and if there is a difference it might just as easily be due to a freshly built wheelset being better tensioned, or different tires.
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Old 10-15-15, 11:55 AM
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I did it on one bike because of a really great price I got on a set of slightly used 700c rims. I've also got four or five bikes where I don't intend to change out the 27" rims, ever.

On the converted bike, the extra clearance for fenders was a nice bonus, and the old center pull brake calipers had the reach to do it easily. The wheel size doesn't seem to effect the ride quality; at least not as much as tire choice does.
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Old 10-15-15, 11:57 AM
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For me, there are plenty of options in 27" road tires. Brand, look, width, etc- plenty of all for me. And they are $15-50 most of the time, so its not like they are expensive or something.

I have converted a bike from 27s, but that's because the rear hub crapped out and couldn't be fixed(due to it being dead tech). If the wheel had worked, I would have kept the bike on 27s.

I am no princess with a pea, so maybe I am not discerning enough, but I don't notice a ride difference between 27s and 700s. The size difference is just too nominal for me. Tire selection, for me, makes a significant difference and way more than such a small change in wheel size.
I will say I noticed the standover height is different with 700s on, but that also is because the tire size I got is a little more narrow, so the tire height plus wheel size made probably a 1/4" lower standover height. I notice it really only when that bike is next to some others of mine.
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Old 10-15-15, 12:17 PM
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- 700c usually increases value.
- you can't get more narrow than 1" tires for 27" tires (like 23mm).
- 23c tires are usually easier to find and less expensive than 1".
- if building new wheels, 700c will not feel guilt-ridden, like you're wasting funds in a time warp.
- use really cool old hubs that spin perfectly and you can polish easily, like campy record.
- use a 32h in front and 36h in the rear.
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Old 10-15-15, 12:42 PM
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The existing Weinmann rims are probably not hooked; so new rims, whether 27" or 700c, will be better, and will hold modern tires better. I'd say yes, it is worth it.
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Old 10-15-15, 12:54 PM
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Thanks for all the input everyone. Very helpful. I agree that given the amount of money involved to build new wheels using any combination of parts, switching to 700c makes sense given that it's the standard now, you can use a wider tire, and using slightly smaller rims won't throw anything else out of whack by much. Sounds like braking performance may be negatively affected as you have a slightly longer reach to the rim. On the other hand, getting better braking performance is one reason why I thought new rims might be a good idea in the first place. I also feel like modern rims are way sturdier and go out of true a lot less (nothing scientific to back that up, just my experience). I guess I'm leaning toward sticking with the existing hubs, polishing them up really nicely, and building with new spokes and 700c rims -- ahh, so many options.
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Old 10-15-15, 01:15 PM
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I like 27" wheels. I don't have that pathological NEED to go to 700c.

If you're building new wheels and it's not causing a brake issue- I see no reason to stay at 27"

All of my 27" bikes are still 27s. I moved one bike TO 27" to suit a particular set of brakes.

I keep playing with the idea for my old tourers- but these all have narrowly spaced canti posts- so the 27s fit the brakes better. I'd LOVE to maybe have more room for fenders... but I've put some money into getting decent wheels for all these bikes. Super Champion and Wolber 27" rims with Avocet/Phil Wood/Suntour hubs... way, way way cool.
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Old 10-15-15, 01:27 PM
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I do it regularly to set up super commuters. Allows me all weather tires, including very large snow tires without taking off the fenders. I run Mafac Racer brakes in front which will reach on almost any bike and still stop with power. In back I use whatever reaches, power not being very important. (You can find Mafac Racers in many shops used brake box. Usually ~$5-10. Get ones without too much play in the pivots. (They will work fin with a LOT of play, so a little means many years left.

Now you can get Paul's brakes with the same geometry, far more class ans whiz factor and lighten up your wallet a lot. (He has the wisdom to copy the best stopping brake ever made and has the engineering knowledge to design out the "funk" that was/is so integral to the Mafacs. But new modern pads on the Mafacs also remove a lot of that funk.)

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Old 10-15-15, 01:28 PM
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I have very strong feelings about it. Most cyclists are lemmings and don't understand the first thing about proportional wheel/tire sizing or why the industry feels the need "push" paradigms to sell the same population of cyclists the "next" thing. We've seen this with the introduction of indexing, aluminum frames, 7 to 8 speeds, front suspension, 622/700c wheels, Bio-pace chainrings, 8 to 9 speeds, carbon forks, Integrated STI/ERGO levers, carbon frames, 622/29ers, 9 to 10 speeds, full suspension, 10 to 11 speeds, disc brakes, electronic shifting, and now 584/650b. Some things on that list are innovations others are just a poorer performance component and heavier crap to help market bikes.

I posted this in another thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...-mal-rees.html

Most people love to offer advice but truly don't understand what the different tire sizing designations actually mean. The silly french system that cyclists love to bandy about actually represents a very convenient way to describe the rolling circumference of the tire mounted on the rim, and inflated. So theoretically any 700C wheel/tire should roll the exact same distance as ANY other 700C wheel and tire for one complete 360degree revolution. Now this certainly isn't true anymore, and that aspect of the 700A, 700B, 700C, and 700D naming system is essentially meaningless now. Tire and Tyre manufacturers "cheat" and undersize their tires to gain a marketing advantage on claimed weights for a given width be it 19, 21, 23, 32, 35, 38 or what have you. Only people like Jan Heine project normative value judgments onto the old French naming system. I would think most of the intelligent cycling community understands that a 700c designated wheel or tyre is merely just a 622 ISO size.

While the 29er wheel uses a 622 ISO rim, it most definitely is NOT a 700c equivalent. As the very notion of 700c implies a standard rolling circumference by convention. So while a 700c (really just a 622 ISO) rim/wheel and a 29er rim/wheel both use a 622 BSD (Bead Seat Diameter) they have very different rolling circumferences. 29er tires are massive and very wide and very tall, and have a much different rolling circumference from what the 700c rolling circumference standard was, read longer/more. To that end no one should really be using the term 700c anymore as its an ignorant term that doesn't represent what it originally represented, and is misunderstood. So what is true is that what people call a 700c (really a 622) uses the same BSD size rim as a 29er rim. Both a road 622/700c and a 29er tire are for a 622 ISO BSD.

A 630/27' tire or tyre actually has an 8mm larger BSD standard, giving it a slightly larger wheel diameter. Most cyclists, like Jan Heine, don't seem to understand that a misunderstood naming convention has NOTHING to do with how a tire/tyre affects the handling of a bike and we really should stop using terms like 700c, 700a, 700b, and 700d and 650b.

In the end these are the intelligent wheel/tire sizes to use:

559 - commonly called 26" or mountain bike/cruiser
584 - misunderstood as 650b which they are NOT in terms of rolling circumference
622 - misunderstod as 700c which they are NOT in terms of rolling circumference
630 - misunderstood as being "lower-quality" than "700c" by ignorant folks

There is nothing normative or "better" about a given wheel/tire size. What Jan Heine doesn't understand is the relationship of the wheel/tire size to the frame size/cyclist size. A 622/29er wheel on a mountain bike for a 6'5" cyclist on a 23" gives a totally different handling characteristic than for a 5'4" cyclist that needs a kooky geometry frame to accommodate it. While anyone over 5"10" can absolutely appreciate how the larger wheel diameter allows the bike to just roll over obstacles without a care that would require some technical skill a smaller 559/26" wheels. Smaller and diminutive cyclists actually seem to not actually like the 622/29er bikes because their tiny bikes require drastic and aggressive frame geometries that just really don't make sense, to allow the suspension front wheel to fit the tiny tiny frame.

Likewise, using the same 622/700c wheel on every frame size from 49cm through 63cm + bikes makes about as little sense. Jan Heine has tried to craft a false narrative that there is actually something superior about the 584 wheel size. However, once you start talking about the 584/650b wheel size in the 584 ISO language instead of using the language of "650b" for most intelligent cyclists the projection of normative value disappears. What Jan really needs to say is that he prefers a 584 wheel for his stature and frame size, and how that wheel feels to "him." There is NOTHING universal about wheel sizes. There are fifteen different touring/road size bicycle sizes using 1cm increments between 49cm and 63cm. Considering many many people, myself included ride bikes up to 70cm, there are actually twenty-two distinct sizes of bicycle frames, that are commonly used.

A given wheel/tire size just feels and handles completely different for bikes that sit at different places on the sizing spectrum. 622/700c wheels aren't really appropriate for very tiny bicycles. Terry who is known for their saddles these days, started out as a specialty bicycle accessories and builder for women's bikes. They did something relatively innovative at the time and used to spec a smaller front wheel on their tiny women's bikes because those frame sizes simply didn't accommodate the larger 622/700c wheel, in the exact same way that very small and women's mountain bikes don't accommodate a 622/29er wheel without messing up the handling/geometry of the bike. You can fit a 622/700c wheel into a very small women's road bike or a 622/29er road bike but in doing so you negatively affect the handling of the bike and booger up the geometry.

To that end it shouldn't be lost on anyone that a 584/650b wheel size that Jan Heine is trying to spread propaganda as being somehow "magical" as a touring wheel size, will feel completely differently on different size frames/bikes. What is lost on Jan, and I'm not sure its actually lost or if he's just being disingenuous, is that ANY given wheel size will feel differently to ANY different frame size on the bike size spectrum. A 584/650b wheel will handle and ride completely differently on a 49cm bike, a 56cm bike, a 63cm bike, and a 68cm bike. In fact its an absurdly small wheel for just about any bike over 57cm that will build a bike that doesn't handle as well. The very opposite of what Jan claims.

For bikes 60cm and above, it really has NEVER made sense that these bikes used the 622/700c wheel size. The 622 wheel is just really too small for these bikes. In fact most cyclist over 5'10" truly have no concept of how well smaller bikes handle for smaller cyclists. How stable the little people bikes actually are with a proportional size wheel set. Any bike over 60cm, and arguably over 58cm would really be using 630/27" wheel size or even larger. There is a 635 wheel size, but while you can get quality tires/tyres in 635 it is almost impossible to get quality rims in the 635 in the US. Most 635 bikes were for "rod brake" style cruisers, and only heavy steel rims in 635 are available.

In the 630/27" wheel size quality tires are prevalent. You can top quality touring tires/tyres from Continental, Schwalbe, Panaracer and narrower racing style tires are available from many manufacturers as well. Even Bontrager the Trek house brand has put out high quality road racing tires in the 630/27" size. The misnomer that 622/700c tire size indicates a "better" quality rim/tire is ignorant. What is true is that the 630/27" offerings have never been what they were during the US Bike Boom days when the 630 tire size was prevalent, and fewer rim manufacturers are making 630 rims. Velocity, Sun others still make plenty of quality 630 rims in a variety of drills and widths. However, it isn't true that the 622/700c is a European size compared to 630/27" being a US size for low end bikes. European rim manufacturers made plenty of 630 size rims for their market as well. While many of these were never imported to the US, rim makers like Exal (Belgium), Weinmann (Swiss later Belgium), Rigida (France), Alesa (Belgium), MAVIC (France) all made plenty of 630 rims for the non-US market.

So much of wheel/rim sizing is completely misunderstood. What is true is that most bikes on the road today don't have the appropriate sized wheel/rim. Manufacturers and distributors want a "one-size-fits-all" approach to wheels/rims/tires which makes about as much sense for bikes as it would for cars.

I would strongly encourage anyone thinking of switching from a 630/27" wheel size to 622/700c to think twice. The incrementally smaller 622 wheel size translates bumps, cracks, and road imperfections much more so than does the 630 size, which is remarkable considering the marginal 4mm radial variance. However, the larger 630 size is just so much more smooth even for a given tire width with the identical model tire compared to its 622 cousin. Bikes 58cm and larger handle much better with the 630 wheel size, and bikes that are 60cm and larger just handle poorly with the smaller 622 wheel size. With 630 wheels a given bike is demonstrably more stable (a significant problem for larger frames that smaller cyclists have no frame of reference for), is faster on the flats and rollers and maintains momentum better (bigger "flywheel" analogy), and the bigger wheel size reduces speed wobble as well.

I've always felt that bicycles should have proportional sized wheels. Soemthing Jan Heine, seemingly, doesn't comprehend that different wheel sizes "Feel" different on different sized bicycles for different sized people.

If this was my Grandad's bike I'd build it up using a quality hubset like classic Mavic hubs with Mavic Module E rims in 630/27", the drill and spoke choice would be a function of rider weight.
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Old 10-15-15, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy
I like 27" wheels. I don't have that pathological NEED to go to 700c.

If you're building new wheels and it's not causing a brake issue- I see no reason to stay at 27"

All of my 27" bikes are still 27s. I moved one bike TO 27" to suit a particular set of brakes.

I keep playing with the idea for my old tourers- but these all have narrowly spaced canti posts- so the 27s fit the brakes better. I'd LOVE to maybe have more room for fenders... but I've put some money into getting decent wheels for all these bikes. Super Champion and Wolber 27" rims with Avocet/Phil Wood/Suntour hubs... way, way way cool.
I had my signature Peter Mooney built with cantis set halfway between 27" and 700c as it wasn't clear to me what the standard was going to be (I was making this decision in 1978.) The bike has always seen 700c. Now I am enjoying riding it with 32c tires, fenders and a mile of clearance!

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Old 10-15-15, 01:46 PM
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mtnbke, to me there are two things that matter. Rim size as it dictates frames and brakes (I am a long ways from moving to disc brakes, obsoleting every bike/wheel I have to fix a problem I don't have) and tire size (19c, 15c, 1" 1 1/4" etc. Rim size comes first, like it does on my car. Now, 700c means a 622 rim. The fact that it is not historically correct? So what? Very few out there even know that. Junior racing, with it's roll-out requirement, is such a small percentage of cycling that using it to justify the circumference standard is kinda pointless. (I wish junior racing was much bigger but that is an entirely separate issue.)

Tire sized affects handling, pinch flat resistance and what bikes the wheel will fit inside. Again, staying with the xx c designation is clear, even if different manufacturers regularly fudge the measurements. (This could be changed just by tightening up the measuring standard. Easy but not likely to happen.)

Ben
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Old 10-15-15, 01:51 PM
  #20  
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I converted 2 bikes to 700c. A Bridgestone 400 with side pulls and a Trek 620 with cantilevers. The Bridgestone was easier to do and only needed a medium length brake. The Trek needed a specific adjustable canti on the front but was not too much of a problem. The added clearance and ability to run larger tires on both were well worth the change. I did get both as frames and built them up, so it made sense to me to go with the more available 700c rims and tires.
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Old 10-15-15, 01:52 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by eschlwc
- 700c usually increases value.
- you can't get more narrow than 1" tires for 27" tires (like 23mm).
- 23c tires are usually easier to find and less expensive than 1".
- if building new wheels, 700c will not feel guilt-ridden, like you're wasting funds in a time warp.
- use really cool old hubs that spin perfectly and you can polish easily, like campy record.
- use a 32h in front and 36h in the rear.
I think eshlwc is confusing himself. What rim diameter you build with be it 630/27" or 622/700c has nothing to do with the hub. You can use the same cool old hub for either. Hubs have NOTHING to do with what rims you use. I'd also disagree with him on the Campy record hubs. They use cups/cone/balls and the notion that they spin smoothly disregards the fact that you can't source new cups for vintage Campy hubs and replacement cones are nearly impossible to get and don't have the same heat treatment as the original kit. So if we lived in a universe where spares were still available, technically Campagnolo hubs could be used and kept smooth, IF kept in constant adjustment and maintained, and IF spare Cups, Cones and Balls were available. At this point in time most Campagnolo hubs are in a "death spiral." Every mile reduces the efficient effective lifespan. No amount of fresh grease and new balls can fix the scoring, galling, and wear of the Cups and the Cones. Even with new Cones and balls, the Cups quickly translate their galling, scoring, and wear to the balls and through to the cones. Its a literally death spiral or weakest chain in the link kind of thing. Kool vintage hubs like Mavic that used sealed bearings are a much better choice in my mind. They are lifetime hubs and a quick replacement of the sealed cartridge bearings literally returns them to an "as new" state of spin free of the characteristic grind of cup/cone/loose ball hubs.

Also echlwc again seems to be confused with his 32/36 drill comment. You can use any hub with either a 630/622 wheel build, the hub or the drilling has NOTHING to do with the wheel size.

Also it should be noted that a 622/700c wheel passes through more of the imperfections of the road (bumps, cracks, potholes, etc.) more so than its 4mm radial difference to a 630/27" wheel would suggest. That combined with the higher rolling resistance of narrow tires like he suggests with 23mm make for a bad combination.

Most of us are really recreational cyclists. We aren't riding on tubulars like Pros do. Clincher tires with high pressures and narrow widths actually are being found to have HIGHER rolling resistance than wider tires at the same pressures or wider tires at lower pressures. However, that won't stop most people from using narrow tires. Most cyclists on the road are on poorly fitting bikes that don't' fit them. They can only ride perched on top of the hoods because they like the look of an aggressive road geometry. Most of them, even 99% of them, couldn't ride half their weekly mileage in the drops of THEIR own road bike if you paid them. They truly don't fit a road bike in the size they think they do, and don't have the form, flexibility or fitness to ride drop bars in that given size. Its actually a bit hilarious. Most cyclists are recreational cyclists pretending to be road racing cyclists. They would be better off using mustache bars or a properly fitting frame size to the point that they could actually reach/ride in the drops. However, that wouldn't "look" as aggressive or have that pro-road look. The same is true for narrow clincher tires that are the poseur component if there ever was one. Narrow tires with tubulars are a whole different animal in terms of rolling resistance.

I like wider quality touring tyres by Continental or touring tires by Panaracer. I have some Schwalbe Marathon and Marathon Plus tires, but the Korean made Schwalbe tires aren't ever up to the same quality as the Panaracer tires, and strangely are always more expensive. For a go fast tire, the Panaracer Pasela is about as light and as fast as a tire as exists in a clincher. For a more durable tyre I love Contis but they don't make touring tyres in 35 width. I've tried to love Schwalbe tires but they are just never the same quality as the Contintental or Panaracer offerings. Which I find funny since both the German Conti and the Japanese Panaracer have basically the same manufacturing/importing expenses.

The only bike I ride that is 622/700c is my tandem, and only the rear wheel at that. We're a heavy team and needed a Velocity Chukker 48h wheel build (the strongest wheel as can be built), and even a vintage Mavic Module 4 630 would not have been strong enough. However, on the front we still run 630/27".

I've never once heard of a good enough reason to downgrade my wheels to 622 just because everyone else loves saying seven-hundred-c.
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Old 10-15-15, 02:00 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
mtnbke, to me there are two things that matter. Rim size as it dictates frames and brakes (I am a long ways from moving to disc brakes, obsoleting every bike/wheel I have to fix a problem I don't have) and tire size (19c, 15c, 1" 1 1/4" etc. Rim size comes first, like it does on my car. Now, 700c means a 622 rim. The fact that it is not historically correct? So what? Very few out there even know that. Junior racing, with it's roll-out requirement, is such a small percentage of cycling that using it to justify the circumference standard is kinda pointless. (I wish junior racing was much bigger but that is an entirely separate issue.)

Tire sized affects handling, pinch flat resistance and what bikes the wheel will fit inside. Again, staying with the xx c designation is clear, even if different manufacturers regularly fudge the measurements. (This could be changed just by tightening up the measuring standard. Easy but not likely to happen.)

Ben
Ben - The context is converting from 630 to 622.

Any bike that was built for 630 wheels/tires by definition already has the clearance for a 630 wheel/tire. Why convert? What's the point?

With narrow racing clinchers most of them have higher rolling resistance than a wider tire anyway, if we are talking clinchers and not tubulars. So the argument of needing to convert because of the lack of very narrow 630 racing tires always felt hollow to me.

Besides you can get a Panaracer Pasela in 630-25 that only weighs 290g with a steel bead. With the upgraded Pasela TG with the punter resistant belt the 630-25 only weighs 310g. I don't know too any people that need 19mm or 23mm clinchers. Anyone wanting to go "faster" would be better off on tubulars than using high rolling resistance narrow tires with high pressures on a 622 wheel.

Most of the arguments have to do with getting things on sale at Nashbar or Performance. I wear size 15 shoes. I'm accommodated to not getting things on sale, so I don't downgrade by bikes to the smaller 622/700c wheel size. I like the smoother ride the incrementally larger 630/27" rim provides for a given tire/width. Also I ride big bikes with 68.5cm frames, and the wheels already are idiotically small proportionately, and the frames were built for 630 wheels. No need to downgrade for me.
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Old 10-15-15, 02:01 PM
  #23  
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If the 27" wheels are polished chrome plated (steel), wouldn't the brake performance improve with aluminum rims - even with longer calipers?

Noted that OP has aluminum 27" rims now.

Last edited by 700; 10-15-15 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 10-15-15, 02:05 PM
  #24  
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^ i only read a few sentences of that long winded response.

my post was in response to the op who asked about hubs in addition to rims.

sheldon says to use a lower spoke count hub in the front, so that's what i do. i can really feel the difference.

campy record hubs rule.
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Old 10-15-15, 02:09 PM
  #25  
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i like 23c tires. i prefer them over anything wider. i'm glad i converted to 700c on two bikes for this reason.

it's not the only reason.
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