running during off season?
12-07-18, 06:02 PM
#51
out walking the earth
Is the winter for easy miles and not letting things slip? I always approached it as the time to make gains.
12-07-18, 07:04 PM
#52
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The suggestion didn't actually preclude making gains, did it? It's logical, given that traditionally you'd do base miles in off-season, which has been criticized for various reasons including lacking in intense and/or structured training, that a more formal running regime on top of those easy miles wouldn't hurt the condition of your legs (that everyone is worried about), while providing some of the benefits that you're missing.
But if you don't think so, or it's an either/or choice in your consideration, fine with me. I'm just asking.
But if you don't think so, or it's an either/or choice in your consideration, fine with me. I'm just asking.
12-07-18, 07:49 PM
#53
out walking the earth
I don't know. VT1 is a highway in VT to me, not sure how it relates to cycling, so perhaps you're saying something different than I'm reading. I see words like minimal and easy, with "a little intensity' thrown in and see something that at least for me would be way easier than what would be supportive of my winter goals.
12-07-18, 08:52 PM
#54
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I don't know. VT1 is a highway in VT to me, not sure how it relates to cycling, so perhaps you're saying something different than I'm reading. I see words like minimal and easy, with "a little intensity' thrown in and see something that at least for me would be way easier than what would be supportive of my winter goals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventilatory_threshold
12-09-18, 11:59 AM
#55
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Nothing all that complicated. From looking at this sort of analysis (Intervals, Thresholds, and Long Slow Distance: the Role of Intensity
and Duration in Endurance Training), and from what I've seen casually of so-called polarized training,
with recorded responses:
it looks like the Spanish pros utilized a lot of lower intensity miles during the winter season.
They described it: "Using this “time-in-zone” approach, we found that 91 % of all training time was spent at a heart rate below VT1 intensity, ~6 % between VT1 and VT2, and only 2.6 % of all 15-s heart rate registrations were performed above VT2"
And I'm sure you'll inform me if I'm wrong, but I gather that this is a pretty common approach for cyclists training for racing. Now I am asking not informing as I do not train for cycling races - maybe running races - and I cannot do high intensity or even VO2max comfortably in the cold, doing those indoors only in winter, so I am asking you to consider - speculate - that the orange/red elements of the charts might be just as effective if replacing the cycling off-season high intensity with running intervals training. .
and Duration in Endurance Training), and from what I've seen casually of so-called polarized training,
with recorded responses:
it looks like the Spanish pros utilized a lot of lower intensity miles during the winter season.
They described it: "Using this “time-in-zone” approach, we found that 91 % of all training time was spent at a heart rate below VT1 intensity, ~6 % between VT1 and VT2, and only 2.6 % of all 15-s heart rate registrations were performed above VT2"
And I'm sure you'll inform me if I'm wrong, but I gather that this is a pretty common approach for cyclists training for racing. Now I am asking not informing as I do not train for cycling races - maybe running races - and I cannot do high intensity or even VO2max comfortably in the cold, doing those indoors only in winter, so I am asking you to consider - speculate - that the orange/red elements of the charts might be just as effective if replacing the cycling off-season high intensity with running intervals training. .
12-09-18, 12:03 PM
#56
out walking the earth
While those things might be true, you’re asking pwople
with decades of experience in the sport to consider something as if you’re explaining the world isn’t flat.youre citing information from 2007. In reality we’re not Spanish pros riding 5-8 hours a day. Were we, than indeed many could get by on that sort of training. In reality most folks have minimal training hours, and their races are ultimately pretty short. As such that much time at low heart rates might not be the most effective use of time, or work on the sort of things they’ll actually see in a race.
with decades of experience in the sport to consider something as if you’re explaining the world isn’t flat.youre citing information from 2007. In reality we’re not Spanish pros riding 5-8 hours a day. Were we, than indeed many could get by on that sort of training. In reality most folks have minimal training hours, and their races are ultimately pretty short. As such that much time at low heart rates might not be the most effective use of time, or work on the sort of things they’ll actually see in a race.
Last edited by gsteinb; 12-09-18 at 12:08 PM.
12-09-18, 12:16 PM
#57
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While those things might be true, you’re asking pwople
with decades of experience in the sport to consider something as if you’re explaining the world isn’t flat.youre citing information from 2007. In reality we’re not Spanish pros riding 5-8 hours a day. Were we, than indeed many could get by on that sort of training. In reality most folks have minimal training hours, and their races are ultimately pretty short. As such that much time at low heart rates might not be the most effective use of time, or work on the sort of things they’ll actually see in a race.
with decades of experience in the sport to consider something as if you’re explaining the world isn’t flat.youre citing information from 2007. In reality we’re not Spanish pros riding 5-8 hours a day. Were we, than indeed many could get by on that sort of training. In reality most folks have minimal training hours, and their races are ultimately pretty short. As such that much time at low heart rates might not be the most effective use of time, or work on the sort of things they’ll actually see in a race.
12-09-18, 12:21 PM
#58
out walking the earth
Actually in fairness my understanding is that the topic was using running as a warmer and more efficient winter pursuit. How it morphed into longer and slower would be a different question.
12-09-18, 02:33 PM
#59
Cat 2
I skate skied instead of riding today and yesterday. It beats the trainer. I still get to hang with friends and damn is it hard. It's totally aerobic work using the whole body and the same cycling muscles are sore. Would a 1.5 hour sweetspot bike workout be better in the long run than 1.5 hours on skis? Probably. But then again we have a lot to contend with during a long season, burn out being a huge one. Keeping the mind fresh and doing something different is good for you.
12-20-18, 09:32 AM
#60
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Why would you run to burn calories when you already ride bikes?
An hour run at 7.5 minute pace (160 lbs) would burn ~1000 calories
An hour ride at 3.5 w/kg (160 lbs) would burn ~1000 calories
Hell, for me, a kind-of-easy-ish-but-still-sucky-cuz-I'm-not-in-running-shape "run" would be like 4 miles at a 10 minute pace = 480 calories
A cray-ultra-easy-feel-like-I-did-nothing-slower-than-grandma recovery ride would be like an hour at 120 watts = 480 calories
An hour run at 7.5 minute pace (160 lbs) would burn ~1000 calories
An hour ride at 3.5 w/kg (160 lbs) would burn ~1000 calories
Hell, for me, a kind-of-easy-ish-but-still-sucky-cuz-I'm-not-in-running-shape "run" would be like 4 miles at a 10 minute pace = 480 calories
A cray-ultra-easy-feel-like-I-did-nothing-slower-than-grandma recovery ride would be like an hour at 120 watts = 480 calories
If I had the capacity to just ride more, I would. Believe me.
I skate skied instead of riding today and yesterday. It beats the trainer. I still get to hang with friends and damn is it hard. It's totally aerobic work using the whole body and the same cycling muscles are sore. Would a 1.5 hour sweetspot bike workout be better in the long run than 1.5 hours on skis? Probably. But then again we have a lot to contend with during a long season, burn out being a huge one. Keeping the mind fresh and doing something different is good for you.
12-20-18, 10:02 AM
#61
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Winter riding outdoors can suck balls sometimes. Meaning that instead of doing nothing or cheating an indoors ride for boredom....running can give a great aerobic engine workout in shorter time.
Not to mention burn those holidays and winter eating habit calories very efficiently.
I find running helps out of saddle efforts.
Don’t totally neglect doing some bike pursuit, sprint, TT efforts in winter by any means. Toss in a few. But perhaps aren’t the “staple” workouts at the time.
Just my uninformed opinion.
Not to mention burn those holidays and winter eating habit calories very efficiently.
I find running helps out of saddle efforts.
Don’t totally neglect doing some bike pursuit, sprint, TT efforts in winter by any means. Toss in a few. But perhaps aren’t the “staple” workouts at the time.
Just my uninformed opinion.
12-20-18, 10:46 AM
#62
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I skate skied instead of riding today and yesterday. It beats the trainer. I still get to hang with friends and damn is it hard. It's totally aerobic work using the whole body and the same cycling muscles are sore. Would a 1.5 hour sweetspot bike workout be better in the long run than 1.5 hours on skis? Probably. But then again we have a lot to contend with during a long season, burn out being a huge one. Keeping the mind fresh and doing something different is good for you.
the difference is probably very negligible and building up the posterior chain up through the back has benefit to your entire life (and probably sprinting)
