dmusicant

I live in a metropolitan area (Berkeley, CA). I read an article in the newspaper within the last few months saying the roads in this region are THE WORST IN THE COUNTRY! Yeah, when you see a nicely paved street here your eyes get big. But you don't get used to it. If you don't pay attention you could hit a pothole that you may or may not remember when you wake up in the hospital (if you wake up at all).

OK, I ride these streets on a Miyata triple butted road bike fitted with the biggest/widest tires I can get on it, 27x1 3/4 inchers.

I used to get flats not infrequently, maybe twice a year. At some point I started using tire liners. I even have one of those heavy thorn resistant tubes on my back wheel.

However, I don't use the tire liners recommended for my tires, which according to the Mr. Tuffy instructions are "Rd". I use the "Br" ones designated 26x2-2 1/4". Here's why:

They are wider and therefore run up the sides of the tires quite a bit further than the ones designated for my 27x1 3/4" tires. A lot of times a flat will be caused by a piece of glass, staple or tack that drives in up the side of the tire, not on the bottom. The wider liners give the added protection to prevent a lot of those types of flats. Yep, that's my reasoning.

I don't just drop the liners into my tires the way they recommend. I have always glued them into the tires with contact cement. Here's my method:

I go out in my backyard patio and hang each new liner from a clothes-line with a clothes pin. I take a sharpie and make marks on the very bottom of my new tire about every 4 inches as a visual aid, then spread contact cement on the bottom, around 1/2" - 3/4" wide all around the inside of the tire. Then I spread contact cement on the convex bottom surface of the tire liner hanging from the clothes line. After 15 minutes or so to dry, I start adhering the liner to the inside of the tire. There's about 3-4 inches of over hang, and I put a bit more contact cement on there to hold it in place. Then I proceed with assembling the tube into the tire as usual and inflate, etc.

You might think that gluing the liner into the tire is unnecessary, but that's the way I've been doing it. It ensures that the liner remains well situated and doesn't crawl up one side of the tire.

I hardly ever get flats anymore. I carry a spare tube and a pump, but haven't had to use those on the road for, gosh, must be over 10 years now! Granted, I bike a lot less than I used to, but I still do bike a fair amount in town (I do have a car now, but only use it when "necessary").

BTW, my favorite way to get around town, next to my road bike, is my quad roller skates. Now, skating in these worst-in-the-USA streets is a hell of a challenge, but I thrive on challenges ...no broken bones yet skating, knock on wood, but I'm hell of safe on my bike, I really know how to keep out of trouble riding in the city, very experienced.

CliffordK

If it is working for you, then GREAT!!!

Some of the new tires are more puncture resistant than the old tires from decades past, although it isn't the potholes that are puncturing tires (other than pinch flats).

The Panaracer Flataway liners are extremely lightweight, and come self-glued. I sent a set up to my nephew for Christmas... they have lots of goatheads where he is at.

There are tire sealants that can help too. The green slime isn't the best at plugging leaks, but is low maintenance.

My nephew is also now trying the Michelin Protek self-sealing tubes, designed to keep punctures closed.

Here I don't use anything other than tough tires. I try to pay attention to what I run over, but probably get one flat every 1000 to 2000 miles. Thus, the actual number of flats one gets would depend on the miles per year that one rides.

dmusicant

I seem to be getting less than a flat every 3000 miles nowadays. I figure I'm riding maybe 500 miles/year. Well, I may have gotten a flat or two I didn't remember because they haven't been on the road, but I spotted a flat before I left the house... i.e. a slow leaker, then replaced the tube. So, maybe once/2000 miles. I do try to avoid riding over broken glass and I do see that plenty of times on our streets, damn those b___s who don't give a s__t. On skates, glass doesn't matter as much! Skates are so low maintenance it makes bikes look like rocket science.

For tires, there's not a lot around nowadays in 27 x 1 3/8, so I take what I can get. Nothing fancy. I order them online, try to keep some on hand just in case. Guess I could get a new bike but this one's working, and getting and setting up a new bike how I like it (big rear basket), would be a hassle, so that'll wait until I need to do it. Besides, my bike isn't really thief bait. Having a shiny new bike would make me nervous around here. Even so, I lock both wheels and the frame in the city.

Doctor Morbius

My urban assault bike has Slime tire liners. They're thick and heavy and are about the same color as day glow green radiator fluid. They certainly work, but the bike definitely feels a bit plumpish as a result.

Maelochs

Those Panaracer Flataways are a little pricey but I will try a set. I get a flat every 300 miles, it seems ... maybe that is ilussory, but Waaaaay more than once in 3000.

I could go for mega-tires and all, but I have some lightweight bikes, and wrecking them with concrete-filled tires .... doesn't make sense.

TY @CliffordK

CliffordK

I think I got mine from one of the UK resellers, and the total price wasn't that different from retail sales of other brands.

A lot will depend on the environment. Goat Heads?

I get about 300 miles every 2 weeks, and certainly don't get a flat every 2 weeks. I suppose I need to keep better records. I do get them occasionally, divided between bikes and trailers.

I've started experimenting with tubeless. That got cut short by the winter, and hitting a rock wrong damaging my tire carcass (Schwalbe One Pro). This spring, I may try a different brand. Perhaps the Pirelli Cinturato Velo TLR which has high ratings.

Nonetheless, the Gator Hardshells have treated me quite well, except for one blowout.

canklecat

Seems like heavy duty puncture resistant tires with integral puncture shield would work better than any added liner. I've mentioned this before on other threads but the Michelin Protek Cross Max tires may be the most puncture resistant tires available, including compared with the popular Schwalbe Marathons. And for awhile the Michelins were a better value, although the exchange rate the past couple of years puts the Schwalbes within the same range as the Michelins.

Michelin uses Aramid fiber puncture shields -- similar to Kevlar but reportedly more puncture resistant. Schwalbe Marathons use thicker rubber liners integral with the tires. User anecdotes indicate both work equally well. I've never had a puncture flat on the Protek Cross Max, even when I've plucked out shards of broken glass, metal, staples and radial tire wires. The tread has been slashed down to the yellow Aramid shield but still had no puncture flats. It's tough stuff.

There are rolling resistance tests for some Schwalbe Marathons but none that I can find for Michelin Protek tires. User anecdotes seem comparable -- puncture resistant tires do have higher rolling resistance. But even the heavy 1,100 gram Protek Cross Max I use on my errand bike are remarkably smooth rolling and don't feel sluggish.

In order of puncture resistance, from least to most for Michelin tires:
Pro 4 road bike tires used the thinnest layer of Aramid shields.
Protek Urban used a 1mm Aramid shield and some tread pattern, mostly cosmetic to satisfy folks who are uncomfortable with slicks.
Protek tires used a 1mm shield and a moderate chevron pattern tread.
Protek Max -- 5mm shield, same chevron tread.
Protek Cross -- 1mm shield, thickest chevron tread, good enough for some moderate unpaved trails, relatively dry dirt, etc.
Protek Cross Max -- 5mm shield, thickest chevron tread. I've had these on my errand bike for 3 years, no puncture flats despite some horrendous road conditions and debris.

I tried some thicker puncture resistant tubes, including some pre-filled with Slime or I added the Slime. It wasn't necessary with the Protek Cross Max. The only flats I've had with Slimed tubes were on my faster hybrid with Continental Speed Rides and my road bike with Conti Ultra Sport II. The Slimed tubes were a mess to deal with on the road. I ended up discarding the tubes rather than trying to patch them -- if I hadn't had a spare plastic bag I'd have been tempted to leave the Slimed tube on the roadside rather than get the stuff all over me trying to carry it home. The stuff is a mess. The Slime worked only sometimes. It was less hassle to carry the excellent Lezyne self-sticking ultra-thin patches. No need for a tube of glue, easier to repair with cold, wet hands in winter.

Incidentally, some folks prefer ThickSlicks and Conti Sport Contact II (now renamed the Contact Speed) for the thicker tread to minimize punctures, without going overboard into thick puncture shields and heavy tires. I've used the Sport Contact II for a month and they seem like a reasonable compromise. They're tough, not sluggish, but not as smooth rolling and fast as the Conti SpeedRides.

fietsbob

Tire Liners delayed flats but the as the cut ends moved in the tire, at a future time , caused them..

ramzilla

I ride up and down Hwy A1A in Florida and, flats are a constant problem. Drunk rednecks chunk glass bottles out of their car windows and construction debris is everywhere. I've had some pretty bad spills. The last time my front tire blew out I flipped completely over and landed on my back! Anyhow, I've had some success with Michelin Pro Tek tires. Kenda Armor Shield tires. Various thorn proof tubes. Slime. And, on my race bike: Continental Gatorskins. It sucks that I can't enjoy riding on some really sweet fast tires. But, that's life on A1A.

Dahon.Steve

This is interesting.

How do you remove the tire liner from the rear tire once it's completely used up?

50PlusCycling

Everyone in every city tends to say they have the worst roads. At least in California they run street sweepers regularly, not so much to keep the streets clean, but so they can write expensive tickets when you accidentally leave your car parked on the street on the sweeping days. When I lived in South Florida, street sweeping was a bi-annual event, and over the months broken glass, trash, and other stuff would accumulate. As I commuted the same 40 miles by bike every day, I would memorize where the worst debris was.

If you are getting a lot of flats on your bike, congratulations. It doesn't mean your tires are susceptible to flats, it merely means you are riding a decent amount of miles, the more you ride, the more flats you are going to have. The best way to avoid flats is not to ride. If you are in the habit if fixing flats and changing tubes, you should be able to change a tube and be back on the road again in less than 10 minutes. I always keep 2 tubes in my pocket or bag, there are times when I have had to use two tubes on a ride. I have ridden using pretty much all brands and kinds of tires, Vittorias, Specialized, Continental, Clement, etc etc etc, and all can be punctured. Tire liners add weight, they don't protect as well as they are advertised to do, and they make tube changes more time consuming and difficult.

dmusicant

I'll never forget, there was a lead story in the SF Bay Area's East Bay Express some years ago written by a woman whose husband regularly rode 50 milers in the local hills. He took a spill making a left turn at an intersection I am familiar with, having ridden there a fair amount. He hit some gravel and took a spill -- head over handlebars (yes, he was wearing a helmet) and came down on his head in such a way that his spinal cord snapped and he was thereafter a quadriplegic. Her story of their life after that was harrowing, to say the least. I stopped riding those hills because of cervical issues of my own, tingling in my hand. I suffered a pinched nerve and for a few months lost a lot of strength in my upper body. That went away, the tingling reoccurs at times. Upshoot is that I don't like to take long rides.

Before I stopped riding the hills (daily!) I refused to take the kind of chances I see bicyclists take up there all the time. They ride down a pretty steep very long (~1/2+ mile) hill at speeds I'd estimate at 30 mph or more. I can understand if you did that every day and had complete confidence in your bike (what does that mean?) you might feel fine doing that, and it is a thrill of sorts. But a spill at those speeds could end your life in 10 seconds. Or worse, make the rest of it a prolonged nightmare. It's not just a bad patch of road that could make you lose control. A blowout would do that. How confident can you be you won't have one? How sure are you that your brakes won't fail? Could some other equipment failure take place? Obviously, if you do your own bike maintenance (I always have with the exception of one time) you will have some confidence. But total confidence? I think that's foolhardy, personally.

BobbyG

I'm a tire liner user/believer. I commute and have been using tire liners for years. Previously I was averaging a couple/three flats a month. Since tire liners a couple flats a year. These are mostly sidewall intrusions. So I was intrigued by your use of wider liners that go up the sides. How does this affect "suppleness"? I like tire liners because they allow for a soft, pliant sidewall, and it seems your method of letting them cover the sidewalls would make the ride firmer.

BTW, a couple of years ago I tried a heavy-duty tire with built-in flat protection and they rode very harshly. And then ironically the rear suffered a huge split from rim to rim. The tire held , but had to be replaced. I realize this is not usual, but it was dissapointing.

P.S. I have been running the same Mr. Tuffy tire liners in two of my bikes for years and have not had them cause a flat where the liner ends are. I rounded the ends and sanded them down slightly. That was a few minutes work ten years ago.

dmusicant

Suppleness? TBH I'm unaware of the effect. The city streets here tend to be not smooth 90+% of the time, so I don't expect a sense of smooth riding particularly. I keep my eyes out for every imperfection, rut, rock, glass shard patch, always in the front or back of my mind looking for the smoothest way forward in the next few feet. I am very experienced, have been riding this city's (and environs) streets for decades and can manuever my road bike very precisely and accurately to miss whatever and stay on the smoother patch of what I see immediately in front of me.

I don't have a sense of what using the wider liners has done for the ride. I did use narrower ones, suffered some flats from penetration up the side of the tire and changed to 26 x 2.1-2.5 liners and got less flats and have stuck with them. I don't remember what, but something happened and I swapped in newer inserts, and just bought a spare pack of 2 just in case.

I suggest you give the wider ones a try and see if you don't mind any change in the ride you perceive and keep track of your flat frequency. You could wait for a flat to insert the new ones, save yourself some trouble. I ordered new ones online a week ago, got them shipped for less then $15 for the pair. That's assuming you're using 27 x 1 3/8 (or equivalent) tires. I think 27 x 1/1/4 tires might be too narrow to accommodate these wider liners. I do like the wider tires for the more forgiving ride... the streets here are so rough, I prefer them. I'd ride wider tires, but my bike won't accommodate them. Those "balloon tire bombers" I've been seeing recently have my attention, but I haven't gone looking for them. I don't commute. My longest rides these days... well, 1.5 miles each way on a regular basis. Some 3 mile rides, one way. 5 miles once in a while. Seldom longer.

PaulRivers

I agree that this is necessary with tire liners, but when you get to this point, to me it would be easier/better to just buy tires with the puncture resistant layer built into them you know?

Maelochs

As for gluing versus using a heavier tire ….

I worry about the glue-in aspect of the Panaracer anti-flat strips---my tires don't last that long. I like supple, soft tires ... and I weigh more than an actual equine Clydesdale. I am still looking for a rear tire that offers longevity and comfort.

Some people ride gatorshells or Armadillos or whatever …. Tires which could double as circular-saw blades. One thousand-gram tires? I am using some Vittorios at about 210 grams apiece. I Hate slow-rolling tires.

I figure with a good anti-flat strip I can run a softer tire and a thinner tube and still have all the protection.

I have been using Mr. Tuffys on one bike, unglued, for a long time. Had some issues with flats because of rim tape/rim imperfections ... . not from tread punctures. It can make changing a tire roadside a little tricky, but I have always managed.

But ... I ordered half a dozen Panaracer Flataways anyway. I figure I can peel them out and re-glue them as needed .... or not glue them. Never needed to glue the Mr. Tuffys.

Looking back, I am not sure iof the Panaracers come with a built-in adhesive or not … perhaps not … so---no issue. I have never had an issue with the Mr. Tuffys moving.

We shall see what the Panaracer strips do.

BobbyG

This.

There are so many exciting and interesting aspects to cycling and yet I find I am always drawn to the tire liners threads.

dmusicant

I suppose so, but I don't recall seeing them. I am using 27 x 1 3/8" tires and last times I looked there wasn't much around. I did ride Continental Touring for some years, wore them out then couldn't find more. Those, in fact, were IIRC some private stock of a guy online in a forum/newsgroup.

PaulRivers

As I understand it the difference between a tire with flat resistance built in vs a tire without but with a flat strip is just whether the flat strip is built into the tire. If you glue a flat strip to the inside of the tire you're roughly doing the same thing as manufacturers are doing when they make flat resistant tires.

The tires you listed above are the most flat-resistant - and the heaviest and least supple - versions available. If you glued an equivalent flat resistant strip into a tire, you'd get the same weight and loss of suppleness.

Tire Weight = Tire Weight + Flat Strip Weight
Tire Suppleness = Tire + Suppleness Lost To Flat Strip

You can buy tires that are lightweight and supple with a moderate flat resistant strip.

The continental gp4000's have built in flat protection and they are perfectly supple (though they lack a bit of road feel). They do have lighter flat protection than a gatorskin hardshell or an armadillo, sure, but they have enough flat protection that I didn't get any flats on the outside of the tube in a few years of riding. (I did pull the stem out of the tube by accident once but that's not a flat protection issue).

The most supple tire with the most enjoyable road feel that I've used (what I'm using now) is the Specialized Roubaix Pro and it has a flat protection belt built into it (Flat Protection: Endurant Casing and BlackBelt):
https://www.eriksbikeshop.com/Specia...C14327/Product

I believe the theoretical value of a flat protection strip was that you could buy cheaper non-flat-resistant tires, when they wore out, you could move the strip to the new tires.
But if you're gluing them to the tube it seems like you lose that advantage.
The other drawback of them is that sometimes the edge of the strip would end up biting into the tire and ironically cause a puncture in the tire itself.
Sounds like gluing it to the tire is supposed to prevent that...but now you're basically doing the same thing that tire manufacturers do with flat resistant tires themselves.

Seems a lot easier to just buy a tire with the flat resistant strip built into it to begin with.

PaulRivers

Oh man...that's hilarious...it's so bikeforums.
Me: (something about general tires).
BikeForums poster: Well, I'm riding a unique 28.92247634 tire size not used since the winner of the 1932 tour de mountains in tropical spain, and I couldn't find any tires like that that fit my bike!

Are you using the 650's? It's certainly more difficult to find modern tires in that size for road bikes. Manufacturers like making 28's (700c), then 26's, then maybe they might also make a 650 version. I did a quick search and it looks like you can buy the Schwalbe Pro One HS 462 in 25-584 (650 x 25B):
https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_t..._tires/pro-one

I can see your point about a lot less availability with a less popular tire size and the best workaround being a tire strip. But it's also not really a factor for those us riding the most common wheel size where it's not really a problem you know? Like it's a good point but "doesn't come in an uncommon tire size" doesn't contradict where I was going with my post.

Edit: I guess the tire I linked to is tubeless. Perhaps the Schwalbe One Hs462A (650 x 23C or 650 x 25B)?
https://www.schwalbetires.com/node/2374