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"Cyclist" less than human

Old 03-28-19, 08:42 PM
  #26  
TimothyH
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There is actually a good point to be made behind the article.

My identity comes from who I am, not what I do.

I am a father. I am an adopted son of and beloved by God. I am a human being. I would still be these things if I were in a coma. I have value above and apart from cycling or any other thing I do. Cycling is just something I do. If I get my identity from cycling and can no longer cycle then I loose my identity and purpose in life.

My friend used to say, "I'm not a runner. I'm just a guy who runs."

A guy once said to me, "You cyclists need to get off the road" and I replied, "Pretend that I'm a human being and not a cyclist."

People say, "A car tried to run me over." No, a human being tried to run you over with a car. There is a difference.


-Tim-
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Old 03-28-19, 08:42 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by CycleryNorth81

Experts call for the word 'cyclist' to be BANNED because it 'dehumanises' people who ride bikes

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...m=rta-fallback
No more wacky than some bicycling "experts" of the vehicular cyclist persuasion who insist on describing themselves as "bicycle drivers" who "drive" bicycles in order to make some sort of statement.
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Old 03-28-19, 09:03 PM
  #28  
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Some forgotten words:

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness—That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
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Old 03-28-19, 09:16 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by alcjphil
Ok, I see that many people I respect from many of their other replies on other threads are having fun with this. That is too bad. being a "cyclist" for getting close to 50 years not even counting my pre adolescent cycling, I would expect better
Do you really support what the author is saying? Do you think by changing a word, "cyclist" in this case, to a phrase "person who rides a bike" is going to change how many drivers perceive those "people who ride bikes?"

And don't forget about the much larger issue here that the Professor is calling for a BAN on the word cyclist. Why should a very small minority of people have such power to change the English language? Forced speech is tyrannical in nature and I hope nobody here supports that.
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Old 03-28-19, 09:22 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
There is actually a good point to be made behind the article.

My identity comes from who I am, not what I do.

I am a father. I am an adopted son of and beloved by God. I am a human being. I would still be these things if I were in a coma. I have value above and apart from cycling or any other thing I do. Cycling is just something I do. If I get my identity from cycling and can no longer cycle then I loose my identity and purpose in life.

My friend used to say, "I'm not a runner. I'm just a guy who runs."

A guy once said to me, "You cyclists need to get off the road" and I replied, "Pretend that I'm a human being and not a cyclist."

People say, "A car tried to run me over." No, a human being tried to run you over with a car. There is a difference.


-Tim-
There are also bad points too, which outweigh any good point the author may have. But you are right in that people are not what they do in spite of what Quato says.


Last edited by Doctor Morbius; 03-28-19 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 03-28-19, 09:52 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Doctor Morbius

And don't forget about the much larger issue here that the Professor is calling for a BAN on the word cyclist. Why should a very small minority of people have such power to change the English language? Forced speech is tyrannical in nature and I hope nobody here supports that.
Don't forget that this person doesn't have that power and no one is actually banning anything. There's no larger issue here. The academics are not really coming for your words. We'll all continue using the word cyclist for the rest of our natural lives.
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Old 03-28-19, 10:03 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by CycleryNorth81

Experts call for the word 'cyclist' to be BANNED because it 'dehumanises' people who ride bikes

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...m=rta-fallback
more idiotic hippie pc garbage
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Old 03-28-19, 10:09 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by jon c.
Don't forget that this person doesn't have that power and no one is actually banning anything. There's no larger issue here. The academics are not really coming for your words. We'll all continue using the word cyclist for the rest of our natural lives.
With all due respect, the word BANNED is used four different times in that article and once under the professor's picture. All that prof needs are some high minded politicians to follow suit. Canada has already enacted speech legislation.

People like this are trying to cure a cancer by putting Band-aids on it. They just don't seem to get the bigger picture. And what should scare people even more is so many institutions of higher learning, if one can really call it that, are full of these types of idiots ... and they're teaching our youth! I'd certainly call that a bigger issue.

Myself? I don't live in Australia, but if I did I would use the word cyclist out of spite.
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Old 03-28-19, 10:11 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by robnol
more idiotic hippie pc garbage
Dirty hippie at that! Someone should tell her they have a thing called shampoo.

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Old 03-28-19, 11:46 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Doctor Morbius
With all due respect, the word BANNED is used four different times in that article and once under the professor's picture. All that prof needs are some high minded politicians to follow suit. Canada has already enacted speech legislation.

People like this are trying to cure a cancer by putting Band-aids on it. They just don't seem to get the bigger picture. And what should scare people even more is so many institutions of higher learning, if one can really call it that, are full of these types of idiots ... and they're teaching our youth! I'd certainly call that a bigger issue.

Myself? I don't live in Australia, but if I did I would use the word cyclist out of spite.
I don’t think we’re very close to the word “cyclist” being banned anywhere. I think the real question is, should we call ourselves cyclists? Should the media, sports commentators, our friends, family etc. call people who ride bikes cyclists? I’ve personally always hated that word, because until I started riding a bike, “cyclists” were just those annoying people who took themselves too seriously and slowed everyone down, and kept hitting cars and ending up underneath them. Not that I ever felt that way, but that’s overwhelmingly the tone/context in which that word was used. I still chafe quite a bit when someone calls me a cyclist, because there is some hardcore stereotyping and prejudice that is associated with that word.

So let’s not shut down the entire discussion by saying “people should be able to say what they want to say”. What should we want to say?
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Old 03-29-19, 12:46 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by smashndash
I don’t think we’re very close to the word “cyclist” being banned anywhere. I think the real question is, should we call ourselves cyclists? Should the media, sports commentators, our friends, family etc. call people who ride bikes cyclists? I’ve personally always hated that word, because until I started riding a bike, “cyclists” were just those annoying people who took themselves too seriously and slowed everyone down, and kept hitting cars and ending up underneath them.
So ... people have always hated people who DO THOSE THINGS.

Do you think if we called bicycle riders "penguins" that drivers would be pleased to have to slow down when they couldn't push past a cyclist on a busy, narrow, winding two-lane road? What you described were people who hated Anyone on "their" roads who would dare not be in a car ... do you think calling bicycle riders "alien camels" or "impetuous machine drivers" or "snail-snakes" would change that? if we called bicycle riders "car drivers" would car drivers be okay waiting behind "car drivers"?

Originally Posted by smashndash
I still chafe quite a bit when someone calls me a cyclist, because there is some hardcore stereotyping and prejudice that is associated with that word.
And now that we call black people "African-American," racism has ceased to exist. That's awesome.

I understand that the words we use carry deeper meanings. But a person in wheelchair with no legs is still a person in a wheelchair with no legs, whether the PC term is "handicapped" or "differently abled." And I have yet to see anyone in a wheelchair refuse to use a wheelchair ramp because it was added to provide "handicap access."

Originally Posted by smashndash
So let’s not shut down the entire discussion by saying “people should be able to say what they want to say”. What should we want to say?
People should use words which clearly communicate the people's meanings? "Cyclist" happens to be the word people use to describe bicycle riders.

Tell me ... if we start start calling drivers "car operators," will there be less negative thinking about drivers on this site? Is it better to be buzzed by a "car operator" than a driver ... if you are "a person who rides a bicycle"? But hey ... I am not. I am a person who Sometimes rides a bicycle. This could get out of hand, one might think ... or one might think that it already has.

Look, i have mentioned a few times that the only real way to increase cycling safety, so long as bikes and cars have to share the road, is to mount a long-term public awareness campaign similar to that which changed drunk driving from comedy to criminal activity. Changing the word "cyclist" won't change how people think of people riding bikes on the road. Changing the way people think about people who ride bikes on the road will, however, remove the negative connotations currently attached to "cyclist." (But not all of them---fat old men in spandex are inherently comical and also unpleasant to have to see .... which is why I avoid the mirror before rides.)

This professor is an idiot. Banning a word will not change how people view the Behavior. Changing ho people view the behavior will take a long time but it can be done. Simplistic calls to ban words which most people don't even use in most conversations ... I bet "that idiot on a bike" is used more than "cyclist" by drivers ......

Change the thinking attached to the label, not the label. Tell people over and over on TV and the internet that cyclists are normal people (a lie but a necessary lie), that your kids ride bikes, that cyclists are actually making the world better for divers .... spend the time and energy retraining people and in a decade or two changes will be visible.

Sure is a good thing we ended racism by calling blacks "African-Americans."

I am a proud "Cycling-American." Now I am safe on the road.

Last edited by Maelochs; 03-29-19 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 03-29-19, 01:12 AM
  #37  
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This occurred to me when reading a related thread in A&S (I recommend mods combine the two for more fireworks)---drivers see drivers of other cars as less than human too. (there is some comedy routine about it... Louis CK, maybe?) But I also have seen and done it myself, and talked about it with friends ... once ensconced in our private power-sphere, we tend to see everyone as an obstacle or an impediment or an annoyance. It has nothing to do with the language we use to think of the other drivers ... whether we call them drivers or vehicle operators or car-controllers ... it is that we are cut off from them and see them as competition if they do not cooperate.

it ain't the way drivers see cyclists ... it is the way drivers see everyone.
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Old 03-29-19, 04:29 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by JanMM
Nothing more to see here - move along.........
You could say that about the Daily Mail most of the time.

Maybe car drivers should try calling themselves human, or at least remind themselves that we all are - some get dehumanized when they get behind the wheel. Then again, if we relate to car drivers more as if they're human, we might all get on better. It tends to take both sides to create an altercation.
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Old 03-29-19, 04:42 AM
  #39  
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I had read the article yesterday. No mention of not saying motorist. Of course, by the end of a weekend ride I am less than human. Sweaty, possibly road grime, smelly and hungry. Not to mention ready for a beer.
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Old 03-29-19, 05:00 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by bogydave
Some forgotten words:

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness—That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
What's that from?
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Old 03-29-19, 05:06 AM
  #41  
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This is just the latest iteration of a "branding" approach to an intractable problem. The problem their survey reveals indicates that there are drivers who are comfortable attacking people on the road. We're not "dehumanized" , we're pretty much the most obvious individual people in the traffic flow. They're looking right at a person when they do this stuff, it's much more direct than attacking someone encased inside of a machine weighing at least 1000 pounds.
Face it, the real problem is that there's a lot of people full of rage who happen to drive. They're a small minority of drivers, but their impact is felt by pretty much everyone who has to use the road. We happen to be particularly vulnerable to such people because they are bullies and we can't fight back effectively. I have little doubt that the people who run bicyclists off of the road would do the same to other drivers if they thought they could get away with it. If there's going to be a solution to this, which I doubt, it's going to involve getting sociopaths out of drivers seats.

I also think this story is going to be promoted by people who don't like bicycling, because they think it makes us look silly. In that regard, I think it's a good idea for us to make fun of it as well, to make it clear this has nothing to do with us.
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Old 03-29-19, 05:09 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Machka
What's that from?

The DMV Manual of the United States.

Seriously, I don't know what the Declaration of Independence has to do with this. Bicyclists should form their own country?
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Old 03-29-19, 05:10 AM
  #43  
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Experts********************??? Ding bats that have too much time on their hands. Expert = has been a drip under pressure.
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Old 03-29-19, 06:08 AM
  #44  
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Cycleher or Cyclehim or in a group Cyclethem

In my case a happy to be alive Surviving Gleason 10 PCa bilateral Orchiectomy Cycleit with the one day 167 mile Cross Florida https://spacecoastfreewheelers.com/xfl/ next Sunday
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Old 03-29-19, 06:14 AM
  #45  
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Thank God that we're not called Cyclemen.
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Old 03-29-19, 06:20 AM
  #46  
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"Are We Not Cyclemen?"

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Old 03-29-19, 06:37 AM
  #47  
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Some of you get pissed off at the most inconsequential things.

Forget about university research studies and semantics.

Just ride your friggin bikes for crying out loud.
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Old 03-29-19, 06:39 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
So ... people have always hated people who DO THOSE THINGS.
And now that we call black people "African-American," racism has ceased to exist. That's awesome.
....
Sure is a good thing we ended racism by calling blacks "African-Americans."
Language evolves over time. This was not a change brought because some social scientist thought it up and some politician forced it upon us. It was a change that the society as whole slowly came around to. When I was young, there was another term much more commonly in use. And a lot of white society didn't really view this significant portion of the population as truly American. I don't think I can repeat that term here and I think that's a good thing.

Did we end racism? Of course not. That's a journey of a million steps and we have many more to go. But despite the increase in more overt racism that we've seen in this country in the last few years, I think progress has been made over the course of my lifetime. And I think reducing the use of the dehumanizing term once commonly used by white society has played at least a small role in that progress. I certainly hope you would not advocate returning to the use of such of an offensive term.

The idea that the term "cyclist" is offensive is in my eyes daft. However, I'm pretty confident society as a whole agrees with that and there is therefore no reason to pay the slightest attention to one off the wall social scientist. I don't think this demonstrates in any way that language should never change or that offensive terms should not fall from use in polite society. And there is no force of law at work here. You are still free to use the term I will not mention. But you'll be shunned by decent folks and I think that's progress. For all the whining I hear about "political correctness", I can't offhand think of single word I want or need to use that I feel I am now effective barred from using.
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Old 03-29-19, 07:04 AM
  #49  
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Oh those wacky Aussies, God bless them all.

Je suis vraiment un cycliste.
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Old 03-29-19, 07:27 AM
  #50  
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My name is Bob and my pronouns appelations are, "cyclist" and "bicyclist".
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