Kabuki12

I have said this before, enjoy the down market and get that bike you really want for a bargain! I have just about all the bikes I want and don’t have a fortune invested. I can get parts reasonably priced and I ride all my bikes in rotation. My Medici would have been 3 times what I paid for it had I bought it a few years ago and I don’t think I would have gotten 3 times the fun riding it. In the seventies I bought a 356A Porsche and drove it for nearly 30 years. It was fun meeting up with other drivers and trading, or buying parts I needed. Then the prices and value of the cars went through the roof to insane #s and the whole thing became about money. People were selling old rusty parts for thousands of dollars. I sold the car and never looked back. I am glad I got to do it before money ruined it. I , personally, like the vintage road bike market where it is. We can buy and sell bikes without spending a whole bunch of money and , to me , the enjoyment is priceless.

merziac

Going to chime in again to drill down on what I see as the crux of the matter.

This C+V thing is mostly and truly about passion, if you're shrewd and ruthless enough it can be about the money too, knowledge is power and $$$.

That being said, any bike that brings you real joy from riding it, owning it, showing and sharing it, working on it, etc. may not owe you a damn thing, you may have gotten your money's worth 1 or a 1000 times over and you might do well to truly evaluate that.

I have several bikes that I don't, can't, won't ride for various reasons, too small, too out of sorts, etc.

Many of them, I am thrilled to have simply gotten my hands on, some were a bargain, some not. none of that matters to me, they all pay their dues in their own way and won't owe me a thing in the end.

If these aren't worth anything when the time comes I may give them away to worthy stewards or just sell for what I can get, they will have served their purpose to me and I'm good with that.

What are they worth, every penny I paid for them.

Mad Honk 

Wow! A lot of stuff in this thread.
I guess I see things in a slightly different light especially on tire size. The roads I ride today are filled with potholes, cracks, and trash to ride over. Not that way BITD. So the tire sizes had to change to accommodate the poor infrastructure maintenance. And the older steel framed bikes I own were what I grew up with. My '95 truck still has roll up windows. (remember them?) and I can remember tuning a '63 Chevy with a matchbook for setting the points. (Most won't even know what those are) But the way things used to work and work well are still appreciated by me.
My wife has a cousin who collects (and still races) pre-1900 cars. It is not an inexpensive hobby, but he can afford it and it makes him happy. He has even discussed with me on one occasion the best way to use tire spoons on clincher tires and wooden rims. He saves the new technology from those days. Things like chain drive speed-o-meters, which were an innovation back then. And to drive one of those requires being able to shift from low to high gear with out a clutch. Top speeds of 35 mph, don't seem like much today, but remember how fast it was compared to driving a horse? I applaud the guys like he and Jay Leno who preserve the past for us, and the folks who collect and save the bikes we thought were the coolest things we ever saw. Will C&V bikes hold value? Maybe not, all but some will and that is what keeps me looking.
I get that technology changes things. I was around when Johnny Rutherford couldn't adjust to the "feel" of radial tires and that kept him out of Indy for 1987, we all watched the race from the stands instead of the pits. I remember when Spike Sellig took my into a garage to show me how strong carbon fibre was, and bounced a sledge hammer off a tub almost to the ceiling of the garage. But we didn't know then that the damage was in spider cracks to the CF were created with that destructive testing. And even with all of today's safety features I would still pee my pants to get into a silver crown car on a oval track. Technology is great but sometimes the nostalgia and luster of yesteryear is still a great motivator for many of us. Smiles, MH

UKFan4Sure

A PERFECT summary...

Drillium Dude 

I like this; agree wholeheartedly with it, too

DD

uncle uncle

What's going to spur another classic/vintage bicycle run !?... this young generation experiencing their equivalent of the "Farah Fawcett on a Bicycle" poster moment, coupled with long gas lines, and a new "Breaking Away" type movie.

cudak888 

Lots of interesting comments here, but I find it amusing that this whole discussion has basically started over a sample size of one Richard Sachs that sold for a deceptively low price.

...and not one reply yet has noted that the builder himself gave a few compelling reasons why it didn't bring a higher price.

-Kurt

Mad Honk 

I seriously doubt we could re-assemble the Team Cinzano group. And I am not about to volunteer for the pump through the front wheel scene. Maybe the pedal installation scene, or the bowling ball through the widow scene. but it will be a big jump to get another Paul Dooley character. Now that lack of gasoline is an option. I get up every day and observe at least one hundred cars per ten minutes pass by my window. Just how much CO are those creating to wreck the planet's eco structure? That alone inspires me to think more bicycles. Smiles, MH

iab

Is it your position the market hasn't waned?

mechanicmatt

I saw this thread 2 minutes after it posted and I wanted to immediately reply that this is something that doesn't even need to be discussed. You all are far to good of people, far to generous with your time including Richard Sachs himself to reply to this mess of a question. The value of this stuff here is measured in appreciation not money. Just let this fly, you all do equally amazing stuff with classics and period correct parts, to new customs, to old stuff with parts, etc.

I'm probably jaded, but I hate these threads because they speculate and spin into no where.

It's more of a buyer's market than it was 10 years ago, to me that's all that needs to be said. Great time to find cool bikes.

rossiny

I bought a basically NOS , Casati Ellisse EL-OS COLUMBUS steel,, for 800 with new Campy Centaur carbon fiber group. He built it then changed his mind . . Had multiple bikes .. I love declining values. I am 58 and know what a new bike like that would cost to build. Most younger people I guess just dont appreciate a machine like that..? Now I am waiting for titanium to go down always wanted one , they seem to be 1400, still waiting 😎

cudak888 

No. It is my position that every sale is different, every market is different, and no matter how much every last C&Ver feels compelled to add their two cents to this thread, the grand sum is that a lot of anecdotal evidence is being used in a futile effort to answer a broad generalization. A generalization that the OP roughly justified with a sample size of one.

Not to mention that mechanicmatt absolutely nailed it: This is a discussion that has more to do with profit than the hobby, but the topic is just controversial enough that it instigates everyone into commenting, so this thread - which should have been relegated to the Valuations forum pit long ago - keeps popping up at the top of the forum.

-Kurt

2cam16

You're not working hard enough,Law. Save us! lol

HTupolev

By and large, millennial and gen-z roadies ride skinny road tires like everyone else. Often wider than a 23, sure, but vintage steel bikes were usually fitted with tires larger than a 23 too: clearances didn't crunch down until the mid-late 1980s. And much in the same way that even half-serious racers back in the day rode relatively-current equipment, half-serious racers today also ride relatively-current equipment. In other words, in the occasion that young people do shop for vintage steel, it's extremely unlikely that they're looking into it for a high-performance road build. And if they're not looking into it for a high-performance road build, they'll almost certainly want >23mm tires, because wider tires have been standard practice since the dawn of time for basically every other use case ever. As they probably should be: wider tires are more economical in terms of tire cost and tread life, at reasonable inflation pressures they're easier not only on the rider in rough circumstances but also on the rest of the bike (especially the wheels), provide extra versatility, all for little to no performance cost or even a performance benefit (depending on how the bike is being used).

When people ask for 50mm road tires, they're usually putting together a gravel/allroad/whatever bike. Whether this is reasonable or not depends on the gravel. Smooth well-groomed hardpack? Probably not very important. But if it's occasionally getting really chunky...



...I don't complain about the extra rubber.

Bottoming out your gearing can be a considerable hit to power and leg fatigue. In the 52-42 days, even the pros often bottomed their gearing out on the big climbs. Also, being able to manage your efforts is hardly a bad thing: if you're actually training and want to work on pedaling force, availability of low gears won't stop you.
This isn't an issue of fear, it's an issue of practicality and performance.

iab

mechanicmatt didn't "nail it" until post 60. So yeah, sorry that it annoys you this thread keeps popping to the top.

And yes, it is only one example of a waning market. But you yourself agreed it is a waning market. You also probably agree the market is waning for the very reasons posted that keeps this thread popping to the top. You and I may not give two craps about the money we spend on this hobby, but why aren't you posting in the Bob Jackson / Anger Management thread where the OP is wringing their hands about someone making money from a sale versus this thread where the OP is wringing their hands about losing money? The fact of the matter is these threads about getting your money out of the hobby are common as dirt. Ignore them if you don't like them.

J.Higgins 

This will happen when we can get one or two of the really popular young artists (celebs) to proclaim to be into bikes, take photoshoots on them, perhaps a movie made on them, etc.

Lazyass

The vast majority of vintage racing bikes available are from the 1980's. Most would be lucky to fit even a 28. I know big tires have been around since the dawn of time. You have to keep in mind that at the dawn of the bicycle, most roads were not paved. Early 20th century races were basically gravel races on fixed gear bikes. Tire size for racing bikes started to come down in the middle of the century when most roads started to become paved because you don't need huge tires on paved roads. The lower pressures cause more tire deflection which makes a more sluggish ride and more unneeded rotating weight, that's just simple physics. Track bikes raced in velodromes in the early 20th century had small tires.

If you're going to ride off road or gravel of course bigger tires are nice but that's not what I'm referencing. I'm talking about regular rides on paved roads which is what most people ride. I am seeing more and more people all the time riding gravel bikes with big tires for road cycling. I was at the shop a few weeks ago and the guy there told me gravel bikes were the biggest sellers and there's not even any gravel roads where I live. They're riding them on road rides for "comfort" and I'm seeing them showing up on group rides. The wave is coming and there's no stopping it. A modern endurance bike with 28's or even 32's would be an outstanding road bike for these people but the big tire fad is going full force.

I don't have a problem with low gearing when you have hard climbs, but that's the beauty about the now almost-dead triple. I have a bike with a triple specifically for when I ride western NC mountains. But I don't like a 34T for a double because at cruising speed I'm always at the bottom of my cassette and have to shift the front way too often. With a 39T I'm usually in the 15-16T at cruising speed solo, so I still have another four or so cogs before I have to upshift. I have a bike that came with a compact and I ended up just staying in the big ring most of the time, then I ditched it for a standard crank. A lot of the new generation is scared. I was once in a discussion about gearing, and I said I prefer standard cranks. One youngster called me a "boomer" and asked me in a smart ass way if I was a pro racer. No, between tire size and gearing I believe the new crowd considers vintage bikes to be too hard to ride in "comfort". That's just my worthless opinion. And then there's the infamous disc brake issue.................................

himespau 

I do this as well, but it often limits me to bikes from the mid-80's onward as I prefer not to try to cold-set the frames For the one listed, I may have made an exception. I just wish Campagnolo had not stopped making triple components in silver colors.

Wileyone 

I seem to find good deals on frames and forks but when it comes to finding parts to build it up that's a different story.

mechanicmatt

It annoys me because a lot of good people on here get worked up and argue with each other over evaluations that we already basically know from each other.

​​​​​​And...well You have amazing restored bicycles that I have seen and admired on here for years. I mean no beef with you or anyone.

And I'm not replying to the Jackson for the same reason I'm didn't want to reply here. I guess I was just triggered after reading 59 posts of spiraling objections. I'm all good now, happy Sunday!

cudak888 

mechanicmatt, I admire your patience and diplomacy.

*sigh*

The team that runs this forum created a separate Valuations sub-forum for monetary topics a number of years ago because valuation topics were "popping to the top" and the annoyance was shared among the members of this community. You were here when it happened.

This thread - like any others asking valuation questions - is C&V clickbait. The OP's question, while valid, is so open ended that it goads everyone into postulating a theory, with no real answer or end in sight.

This is why we have the Valuations forum, where C&V monetary discussions can have their Foo, to be discussed ad nauseum.

I don't probably agree anything.

See previous comments about why the Valuations forum was created.

-Kurt

heaney

I have 1970's gitane frame. Grand tour. Anyone know value in a recondition condition

Barrettscv 

Go to: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...th-appraisals/

cudak888 

I can't stop laughing

-Kurt

BFisher

If the OP wants a good idea of the value of these old machines to the members here, check out the "Where'd you ride...?" thread, or any of the countless group-ride threads, etc.

Sheesh, already!

Nothing about this topic is worth arguing about. Go ride your bike.

Don't feed the troll.

Topic downvote.