Trend towards heavier more aero frames?
#1
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Trend towards heavier more aero frames?
I'm wondering if this is just a Trek thing, or something happening in the industry in general? When the new Domane came out, the only knock I read about it was how much heavier it had gotten. When I compare it to a couple of other common endurance frames (Scott Addict, Canyon Endurace), it is definitely on the beefier side. Now that the new Emonda is out, even at the top end it doesn't seem incredibly light weight. I know that the advent of disc brakes has added some weight, but I'm curious if there is some data demonstrating that the aerodynamic benefits overcome the weight penalty. The new Emonda in particular has made me wonder about that as it's marketed as their climbing bike. I would not be as surprised to see a Madone, a Venge, or an Aeroad pick up weight, but adding weight to climbing bikes seems counter intuitive. (FWIW, I neither work for Trek nor have any particular investment in them - it was just the drop of these two bikes that made me start wondering). Is this trend unique to Trek, or is this happening across the board?
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#3
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Interesting, I guess I’m still surprised that of the well known manufacturers, Trek seems to still be coming out as one of the heavier disc offerings, particularly since they also tend to be among the more expensive. That’s what made me wonder about some wind tunnel magic that might bolster the heavier frame design logic.
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Disc brakes, electronic shifting, bigger tires, even bigger cassettes.
Visually as well, newer bikes are getting a muffin-top look.
Visually as well, newer bikes are getting a muffin-top look.
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I agree. It isn’t just in a particular area. Bike components as well as frames are getting heavier. It is the trade off, I guess, for improvement in other areas of bike performance.
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Great questions. As someone who has owned and ridden all three generations of Domane frames, seen the weight from the first to the latest gain a pound, and gone from stuffing 32mm tires on the first for grins to 40mm gravel tires as an adventure set of wheels on the current, all I can say is the current one goes more places and is more fun to ride. I would add in faster, adjusted for the fact that my 63 year old legs are not quite what they were 7 years ago.
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Interesting, I guess I’m still surprised that of the well known manufacturers, Trek seems to still be coming out as one of the heavier disc offerings, particularly since they also tend to be among the more expensive. That’s what made me wonder about some wind tunnel magic that might bolster the heavier frame design logic.
But yeah, the science purportedly does show that for all except long, steep climbing stages, weight > aero. Although HED has been saying this since atleast 2012, so it isnt really new
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#8
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Great questions. As someone who has owned and ridden all three generations of Domane frames, seen the weight from the first to the latest gain a pound, and gone from stuffing 32mm tires on the first for grins to 40mm gravel tires as an adventure set of wheels on the current, all I can say is the current one goes more places and is more fun to ride. I would add in faster, adjusted for the fact that my 63 year old legs are not quite what they were 7 years ago.
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And in any case, when the vast majority of riders have pounds to lose themselves...
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#10
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i 100% agree with this. Although personally disappointed at the increased weights across the board, the fun factor has actually increased - being able to go more places, explore areas I’ve overlooked due to “poor surfaces” and just getting away from the normal tarmac routes that I’ve ridden 1000x is worth it. Weight doesn’t really matter for me except when racing, and I’ve got my race bike for that...and even then aero trumps weight!
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A lot of the "improvements" are simply new fashions created by manufacturers to drive sales.
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Contrary to what you may think, you cannot just create new fashions at the drop of a hat to drive sales. There have been cases where that has been done successfully, but it is nowhere as easy as you think (and it is more prevalent in the luxury/Veblen goods area). As an entire category, customers arent as stupid or as gullible as people would like to think.
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Ain't it true that some are and some aren't?
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#22
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I try to be pretty discerning when I'm bicycle shopping, and don't always assume that just because something is new it is somehow better. I think there are strong cases to be made for disc brakes (as well as cases to keep rim), and I understand frames becoming a little more stout to support discs. With a demand for wider tires, I suppose that adds a little more material and therefore weight as well.
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Saw an article a few months back about one of the big companies starting to move away from specific aero frames and back towards ride feel and some weight savings.
I've always kind of hated the "aero is everything" movement to an extent as it chucks common sense out the window. I have watched scores of triathletes sit and debate with me the finer points of drag on their components while ignoring the fact that their bike splits averaged 13-17mph.
I've always kind of hated the "aero is everything" movement to an extent as it chucks common sense out the window. I have watched scores of triathletes sit and debate with me the finer points of drag on their components while ignoring the fact that their bike splits averaged 13-17mph.
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I would argue that disc brakes fall into this category - there’s no question that discs are objectively better than rim brakes, but they confer no advantage for the vast majority of riding situations. However, we (the riding general public) has been convinced that by not riding with discs, we’re taking our lives In our hands with those obsolete and inferior rim brakes. Most of us don’t need disc brakes, but we’ve been convinced that we do. It’s a bit like how we’ve been convinced that, without the superior roadholding and safety of AWD, we might not survive the next trip to the mall
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I would argue that disc brakes fall into this category - there’s no question that discs are objectively better than rim brakes, but they confer no advantage for the vast majority of riding situations. However, we (the riding general public) has been convinced that by not riding with discs, we’re taking our lives In our hands with those obsolete and inferior rim brakes. Most of us don’t need disc brakes, but we’ve been convinced that we do. It’s a bit like how we’ve been convinced that, without the superior roadholding and safety of AWD, we might not survive the next trip to the mall
Also, keep in mind that one of the huge benefits of disc brakes isnt just the braking - it is also the ability to use wider rims and thicker tires for a better blend of aero and comfort.