Can hub bearings tighten themselves?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: NPR, Florida
Posts: 83
Bikes: 1984~85 Raleigh Competition, 1985 Raleigh Super Course, 2013 Raleigh Revenio 2.0
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times
in
23 Posts
Can hub bearings tighten themselves?
When I purchased my latest bike at the LBS, a lightly used 2013 Raleigh with Weinman rims and Raleigh hubs, the owner bounced the front wheel and felt enough vibration that he removed it and adjusted the hub. Once I put some miles on the bike I noticed a unusual noise from the wheel, so I removed it and could tell the bearing was tightened too much. It was binding and felt sorta 'crunchy' when I spun it. I backed off the nuts until it felt free and smooth, but should I expect this to happen? Seems odd that it would be a problem in the first 20 miles or so?
#2
Really Old Senior Member
Over tightening a QR skewer will cause this.
Depending on "how crunchy" the bearings felt, I'd be inclined to service/replace the balls.
It might save a hub/wheel.
Depending on "how crunchy" the bearings felt, I'd be inclined to service/replace the balls.
It might save a hub/wheel.
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: NPR, Florida
Posts: 83
Bikes: 1984~85 Raleigh Competition, 1985 Raleigh Super Course, 2013 Raleigh Revenio 2.0
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times
in
23 Posts
Thanks for the tip Bill, I hadn't considered the skewer pressure. How tight is too tight anyway?
#4
Senior Member
The skewer would need to be seriously tight to affect it to the point of being crunchy. My guess is that there is something going on with the hub. Disassemble and inspect. Upon reassembly, be certain the cones are backed into the over-locknuts nice and tight. If not, they will do exactly what you have already experienced.
#5
aged to perfection
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PacNW
Posts: 1,810
Bikes: Dinucci Allez 2.0, Richard Sachs, Alex Singer, Serotta, Masi GC, Raleigh Pro Mk.1, Hetchins, etc
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 835 Post(s)
Liked 1,252 Times
in
661 Posts
No, wait, clamping the skewer can "bow" the axle and cause bearings to be too tite.
with conventional cone and cup hubs - you want a tiny bit of play - and then the slack is taken up when you tighten the skewer.
Feel for lateral play at the rim and look for a smooth back and forth oscillation when you let the wheel turn slowly.
Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA USA
with conventional cone and cup hubs - you want a tiny bit of play - and then the slack is taken up when you tighten the skewer.
Feel for lateral play at the rim and look for a smooth back and forth oscillation when you let the wheel turn slowly.
Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA USA
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
From the OP's description I gather the hub was OK after the LBS readjusted it but tightened as it was ridden. That sounds like: 1) the locknut and cone weren't tightened together sufficiently or 2) the axle or cone or locknut threads are bad and won't hold their adjustment.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,902
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4802 Post(s)
Liked 3,923 Times
in
2,552 Posts
From the OP's description I gather the hub was OK after the LBS readjusted it but tightened as it was ridden. That sounds like: 1) the locknut and cone weren't tightened together sufficiently or 2) the axle or cone or locknut threads are bad and won't hold their adjustment.
Ben
Likes For 79pmooney:
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 8,319
Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1438 Post(s)
Liked 1,092 Times
in
723 Posts
In the same way that tightening the quick release stretches the skewer slightly, the same force also compresses the axle, which tightens the bearings slightly. The axle's compression will be less because the axle has a larger cross section; the amount also depends upon the elastic modulus (stiffness) of the two materials. If both are steel it will be roughly in proportion to the ratio of the cross-sections. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young%27s_modulus
Likes For dsbrantjr:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,071
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4199 Post(s)
Liked 3,851 Times
in
2,301 Posts
I am under the impression that tensile strength is less then compressive strength for steel. So th axle will under go less dimensional change then that of the QR. How one balances this is the art of adjustment.
To the Op's initial question- Bearing "adjustment" can change for a few reasons. The above additional pre load from the QR, improper lock nut/cone counter tightening that can rotationally migrate, Out of alignment drop outs producing off axial bearing loads, contact surface wear and pitting as well as one's ability to sense bearing "feel". Andy
To the Op's initial question- Bearing "adjustment" can change for a few reasons. The above additional pre load from the QR, improper lock nut/cone counter tightening that can rotationally migrate, Out of alignment drop outs producing off axial bearing loads, contact surface wear and pitting as well as one's ability to sense bearing "feel". Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 8,319
Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1438 Post(s)
Liked 1,092 Times
in
723 Posts
[QUOTE=Andrew R Stewart;21250684]I am under the impression that tensile strength is less then compressive strength for steel. So th axle will under go less dimensional change then that of the QR. How one balances this is the art of adjustment.[QUOTE]
Tensile strength and modulus of elasticity are not the same thing; the modulus is the same for tension and compression in the linear stress-strain region. The axle will undergo less deformation due to its larger cross-sectional area. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young%...lus#Definition
Tensile strength and modulus of elasticity are not the same thing; the modulus is the same for tension and compression in the linear stress-strain region. The axle will undergo less deformation due to its larger cross-sectional area. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young%...lus#Definition
Likes For dsbrantjr:
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: NPR, Florida
Posts: 83
Bikes: 1984~85 Raleigh Competition, 1985 Raleigh Super Course, 2013 Raleigh Revenio 2.0
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times
in
23 Posts
Thanks for the analysis! From what I can tell this is a joytech/novatech front hub. At this point I get the best free spin with the cups nearly loose and the minimum safe QR tension without any noticeable side play. Need to get it out on the road to see how it feels, then to a reputable shop for service!
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 122 Times
in
90 Posts
If you're already adjusting the cone and lock nut yourself, I don't see what other services you need from a bike shop. All you need to do for servicing is to remove the axle, clean the cups and cones, clean or replace the balls, add grease, put everything back together. If you notice pitting on the cup or cones, then you'll need to replace either the whole hub or just the cones.
Likes For tomtomtom123:
#13
Partially Sane.
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Sunny Sacramento.
Posts: 3,559
Bikes: Soma Saga, pre-disc
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 972 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 643 Times
in
468 Posts
If you're already adjusting the cone and lock nut yourself, I don't see what other services you need from a bike shop. All you need to do for servicing is to remove the axle, clean the cups and cones, clean or replace the balls, add grease, put everything back together. If you notice pitting on the cup or cones, then you'll need to replace either the whole hub or just the cones.
And don't worry, if an idjit like me can do it, anyone can. 😁
Likes For stardognine:
#14
Senior Member
If the right side cones were adjusted and not tightened properly then the cone can tighten and ruin the bearing. I always remove the left side cones when overhauling my hubs for that reason. If the right side cone need replacing I really tighten the lock nut as much as my puny muscles can.
Likes For davidad:
#15
Full Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Foothills of West Central Maine
Posts: 410
Bikes: 2007 Motobecane Fantom Cross Expert, 2020 Motobecane Omni Strada Pro Disc (700c gravel bike), 2021 Motobecane Elite Adventure with Bafang 500W rear hub drive
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 143 Times
in
94 Posts
Crunchy
When i tighten the locknut on cone type hubs, after tightening the inner nut just right, it often comes out crunchy, ie too tight. Not sure if there's a trick to it, but i usually loosen the inner nut a little more than ideal before tightening the lock nuts. If I'm lucky it comes out just right. If not, repeat until perfect. Also, it seems that putting the riders' weight on the bike makes the bearings effectively slightly looser, so a tiny bit of resistance in a non- weighted hub may be just right under load. Not sure why, but it seems so.
Likes For Chuckles1:
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: NPR, Florida
Posts: 83
Bikes: 1984~85 Raleigh Competition, 1985 Raleigh Super Course, 2013 Raleigh Revenio 2.0
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times
in
23 Posts
All great tips, thanks!
Disassembled the hub, wiped everything down and degreased, regreased with lithium grease and adjusted just shy of crunchy and it feels MUCH better and rolls smoothly now!
Disassembled the hub, wiped everything down and degreased, regreased with lithium grease and adjusted just shy of crunchy and it feels MUCH better and rolls smoothly now!
#17
Señor Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,066
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 649 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times
in
215 Posts
If it feels like it tightens up again, check to see that the freehub body is tight. I know on Shimano hubs that a loosening freehub body can cause the bearings to tighten up mysteriously.