Visser Vainqueur potential project or scrap?
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The fork crown and headtube tell you this is a nice bike. Are those zeus pedals? I'd sink as little money into this project as possible but it would make a real fun townie. This is a bike that deserves to be repurposed.
#27
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If you're not going to keep it to restore it, I suspect someone on here would love to.
Those hollow Stronglight axles are hard to come by, as is the chain guard, there are a number of parts worth saving as mentioned above.
The construction on this is really nice. I think you'd be surprised what it would look like after properly cleaning it up.
Those hollow Stronglight axles are hard to come by, as is the chain guard, there are a number of parts worth saving as mentioned above.
The construction on this is really nice. I think you'd be surprised what it would look like after properly cleaning it up.
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#28
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If you're not going to keep it to restore it, I suspect someone on here would love to.
Those hollow Stronglight axles are hard to come by, as is the chain guard, there are a number of parts worth saving as mentioned above.
The construction on this is really nice. I think you'd be surprised what it would look like after properly cleaning it up.
Those hollow Stronglight axles are hard to come by, as is the chain guard, there are a number of parts worth saving as mentioned above.
The construction on this is really nice. I think you'd be surprised what it would look like after properly cleaning it up.
How would someone go about restoring a bike like this? there are some original parts left on the bike, but there is a lot missing to. And I don't think the wheels are the originals.
#29
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With something like this, I'd start exactly where you have: Taking good pictures. Then I'd look for a couple of comparison bikes of roughly the same year/model, normally I hit ClassicRendezvous first, then a few other places to try to find pictures I can reference for the little details. You may also hit CABE and setup an account if you're not already there, too. There's a braintrust over there, same as here.
Then I'd proceed as you have: Disassembly, down to the bottom bracket (leave headset and bottom bracket assembled, properly pop out the cotters) . I'd bag all the parts to keep them together, even the stuff that seems too rusty to do anything with, with exception of consumables you need to replace anyway (spokes, tubes, tires, bar tape etc).
A lot of the rust I'm seeing there is negligible, especially in the white painted areas. That will cut out with a good compound and/or ultra-fine brass wool gently brushed across the tubes with a diluted dish liquid as lubricant, which will also clean up the chrome nicely.
Before starting any of that work on the tubes, I'd take some construction paper and painters tape to tape the paper over any surface-mount decals with a tiny 1mm margin above/below them. This way you can pass across the tubes without any issues.
You may consider an Oxalic Acid bath as others suggest, but that may trash or fade any surface-mounted decals. I'd probably do that for the rear dropouts, but I have a little bit of beef with water-in-tubes myself, so I prefer only to do non-perforated tubes with exception of the bottom half of the BB shell.
For smaller parts, like the clamps holding the chain guard on, which are heavily rusted ... I'd scrub off any surface rust and soak those in Evap-o-Rust. It's a killer product, nobody ever believes me when I tell them what it's capable of, and it's all-natural, so no neutralizing or special handling for disposal. Best part, though, you can re-use it several times. I keep a few pickle jars around full of it and will re-use it a dozen or more times before it gets kinda funky. You may be able to salvage the bottom cup on that headset, you'd be surprised, if not, you may be able to find a replacement here or on CABE.
Once I got the frame cleaned up, I'd assess: Where are we? Does it look OK? Am I confident it's structurally sound, lug joints OK, no hardcore internal rust ? If yes, I'd proceed. If I wanted to keep the patina intact, I'd consider a going over it with semi-gloss or maybe even matte 2K clear. If the frame is in exceptionally good case, and you wanted to have a real showpiece, maybe drop the money on having it professionally repainted.
If you're not planning to restore it, I'd consider posting the frame/fork/headset/assembled BB/crank for sale here or elswhere, or give it up for the cost of shipping (I'd take it and compensate you for pack and ship). This bike is one of those things I love to get my hands on and set aside as a long-term projects slowly plug at over the course of a couple of years.
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#31
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Thanks for all the advice #francophile !
#32
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#33
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Picked up the Visser Vainqueur from my workshop last night. Because off the demise of this Visser bicycle:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...d-crack-s.html
The Vainqueur might end up with all the components from that bike. But let's see if this frame is any better than the other Visser.
Let me know what you guys think.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...d-crack-s.html
The Vainqueur might end up with all the components from that bike. But let's see if this frame is any better than the other Visser.
Let me know what you guys think.
#35
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There's no lack off patina on this frame how would you guys go about cleaning and preserving this frame? Or would you go for a new paint job?
#36
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Ah! More proof of it being a Belgian product. That braze-on is for a Belgian tax plate:
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Thanks for all the replies guys!
The Visser Vainqueur is a keeper. You guys convinced me. It will take a while before I can start this project. I first want to finish my french folding bike. But I'll slowly start collecting parts.
A while back I took my cargo bike to the dump and found these wheels in the dumpster. They might end up on the visser.
The Visser Vainqueur is a keeper. You guys convinced me. It will take a while before I can start this project. I first want to finish my french folding bike. But I'll slowly start collecting parts.
A while back I took my cargo bike to the dump and found these wheels in the dumpster. They might end up on the visser.
I would be careful with modern rear wheels. The spacing between the rear dropouts can be very different from 1950’s bikes to 2020’s. The spacing for the early stuff can be below 120mm, where 130mm is common since 1985 or so, and wider is becoming more common now in the ‘20s.
To fit a wider one the rear triangles need to be flexed outward. This is always stressful, but for new not-rusted steel it’s kind of a well known thing. A big bendup, like 120 to 130, is questionable even for new, and I would worry about creating cracks in this old beauty. I would just overhaul the old wheel (and other) bearings to get them as smooth as possible and do a few ides to assess things.
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#40
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Those rims in your first picture are aluminum, no? Do they have a brand on them?
They look like they might be 650b. Are they straight? Do the brake tracks seem worn out? Many collectors of old French stuff need replacement rims, and from here they look like good quality.
They are different from the rims you have on the bike in another picture, which appear to be steel and lower quality.
They look like they might be 650b. Are they straight? Do the brake tracks seem worn out? Many collectors of old French stuff need replacement rims, and from here they look like good quality.
They are different from the rims you have on the bike in another picture, which appear to be steel and lower quality.
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I'd strip it down, give it an Oxalic Acid bath, polish it up and touch up the scrapes. OA is sold as wood bleach (for fences & decks) here in the US. Then build it up with whatever trips your trolley.
Interesting bike!
Edit: I'd have a frame builder look at those stay caps. They appear to be cosmetic/non-structural cracks, but an expert can nail it down for you.
Interesting bike!
Edit: I'd have a frame builder look at those stay caps. They appear to be cosmetic/non-structural cracks, but an expert can nail it down for you.
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Last edited by Hudson308; 03-19-20 at 12:28 PM.
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As you may have noticed, I like Belgian bikes, especially these "sports" machines. My problem is that they are always way too small for me.
This is one of them, and it has been sitting next to me, here in my study, for the past five years or so. I have no use for it, but I can't bear to part with it either. And yes, it has that same NDS braze-on for a tax plate.
It has been repainted and otherwise mistreated, but I can still see its former beauty ...
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frame -
fork crown is Vagner model Nr. 11+
dropouts are Simplex (Juy) Nr. 881 & 881B
fork ends not well shown, would expect them to be Simplex Nr. 932 & 933
shell is a BOCAMA pattern. here it is on a Flandria Champion Mondial of 1979 -
eyelets on taper tubes resemble NERVEX Nr. 887
seat stay top - as stated earlier by Hudson308 not a structural problem. if you envision a respray then you can have it repaired. if you wish to retain present finish then spray some anti-rust product and leave as t'is.
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pedals look to be 1950's era Atom 700, or whatever was its predecessor of that epoch.
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wonder if headset may be a TWF pattern
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frame -
fork crown is Vagner model Nr. 11+
dropouts are Simplex (Juy) Nr. 881 & 881B
fork ends not well shown, would expect them to be Simplex Nr. 932 & 933
shell is a BOCAMA pattern. here it is on a Flandria Champion Mondial of 1979 -
eyelets on taper tubes resemble NERVEX Nr. 887
seat stay top - as stated earlier by Hudson308 not a structural problem. if you envision a respray then you can have it repaired. if you wish to retain present finish then spray some anti-rust product and leave as t'is.
---
pedals look to be 1950's era Atom 700, or whatever was its predecessor of that epoch.
---
wonder if headset may be a TWF pattern
-----
#46
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Those rims in your first picture are aluminum, no? Do they have a brand on them?
They look like they might be 650b. Are they straight? Do the brake tracks seem worn out? Many collectors of old French stuff need replacement rims, and from here they look like good quality.
They are different from the rims you have on the bike in another picture, which appear to be steel and lower quality.
They look like they might be 650b. Are they straight? Do the brake tracks seem worn out? Many collectors of old French stuff need replacement rims, and from here they look like good quality.
They are different from the rims you have on the bike in another picture, which appear to be steel and lower quality.
The ones that are on the bike now are most likely Nisi Toro rims. I don't want to spend to much money on this bike right now. So I'm using stuff i Already have. They do look a little small for the frame. So I might change the rims later.
#48
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frame -
fork crown is Vagner model Nr. 11+
dropouts are Simplex (Juy) Nr. 881 & 881B
fork ends not well shown, would expect them to be Simplex Nr. 932 & 933
shell is a BOCAMA pattern. here it is on a Flandria Champion Mondial of 1979 -
eyelets on taper tubes resemble NERVEX Nr. 887
seat stay top - as stated earlier by Hudson308 not a structural problem. if you envision a respray then you can have it repaired. if you wish to retain present finish then spray some anti-rust product and leave as t'is.
---
pedals look to be 1950's era Atom 700, or whatever was its predecessor of that epoch.
---
wonder if headset may be a TWF pattern
-----
frame -
fork crown is Vagner model Nr. 11+
dropouts are Simplex (Juy) Nr. 881 & 881B
fork ends not well shown, would expect them to be Simplex Nr. 932 & 933
shell is a BOCAMA pattern. here it is on a Flandria Champion Mondial of 1979 -
eyelets on taper tubes resemble NERVEX Nr. 887
seat stay top - as stated earlier by Hudson308 not a structural problem. if you envision a respray then you can have it repaired. if you wish to retain present finish then spray some anti-rust product and leave as t'is.
---
pedals look to be 1950's era Atom 700, or whatever was its predecessor of that epoch.
---
wonder if headset may be a TWF pattern
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and I'll keep an eye on the cracks in the paint. If they get worse I'll have the checked.
And how can I check if its TWF pattern?
#49
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The TWF marque was created by two brothers, name of Woit, in Flanderland, 1946. The T and the F are their respective initials.
Firm produced headsets, bottom bracket assemblies and chainsets.
In Britain, Ron Kitching was a stockist in the 1950's and 1960's. Headsets shown in 1963 & 1970 editions of the Everything Cycling handbook.
Historique : WOIT Fonderie des Métaux non Ferreux - Herstal - Liège - Wallonie
Member Munny discusses the bottom bracket spindles here -
https://veloretrocourse.proboards.com...0688/quote/624
As a native Dutch speaker expect you will have no difficulty in searching for additional information in Flemish.
These three images courtesy of Munny illustrate one pattern of headset, different from yours -
Munny gives additional information on the company and their products in this BF posting -
https://www.bikeforums.net/20158383-post536.html
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The TWF marque was created by two brothers, name of Woit, in Flanderland, 1946. The T and the F are their respective initials.
Firm produced headsets, bottom bracket assemblies and chainsets.
In Britain, Ron Kitching was a stockist in the 1950's and 1960's. Headsets shown in 1963 & 1970 editions of the Everything Cycling handbook.
Historique : WOIT Fonderie des Métaux non Ferreux - Herstal - Liège - Wallonie
Member Munny discusses the bottom bracket spindles here -
https://veloretrocourse.proboards.com...0688/quote/624
As a native Dutch speaker expect you will have no difficulty in searching for additional information in Flemish.
These three images courtesy of Munny illustrate one pattern of headset, different from yours -
Munny gives additional information on the company and their products in this BF posting -
https://www.bikeforums.net/20158383-post536.html
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