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The Helmet Thread 2

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Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.
View Poll Results: What Are Your Helmet Wearing Habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet
52
10.40%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped
24
4.80%
I've always worn a helmet
208
41.60%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
126
25.20%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions
90
18.00%
Voters: 500. You may not vote on this poll

The Helmet Thread 2

Old 05-06-20, 11:02 AM
  #3051  
Lemond1985
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I started riding bicycles in 1955 and never wore a helmet until 1981 when I went to work for a personal injury defense firm and learned that, even standing still, if one falls off a bike and hits their head, it is powerful enough to crack a skull.
I think there is more than one conclusion that can be drawn from this observation, especially if one spends time off a bike.
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Old 05-06-20, 12:19 PM
  #3052  
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Originally Posted by LeftyS7 View Post
My 2 cents.

I started riding bicycles in 1955 and never wore a helmet until 1981 when I went to work for a personal injury defense firm and learned that, even standing still, if one falls off a bike and hits their head, it is powerful enough to crack a skull. After that I wore one constantly. I don't understand why anyone would not. It's common sense that cushioning a blow, how ever minimal the cushion, has to be helpful.

Arguing against NOT wearing a helmet is the same argument I make about motorcycle helmets. Yes, you have the right to do anything you want if it doesn't hurt anyone else. But if you are seriously hospitalized and can't pay the bill the rest of us do. Similarly, if you die and your spouse goes on Welfare we pay that bill, too.

So, if you are not married, have no children to support, and you sign a "Do Not Resuscitate" waiver, go ahead and ride without one.
It's very puzzling to me why you ever take your helmet off if you can crack your skull by falling while standing still. You can fall over backwards at any time and land on your head and DIE man.

If someone does hit me they will have to come up on the sidewalk or bike trail to get me. Since I ride at 10 mph or less and have never hit my head from a self caused spill in spite of hundreds of small ones I fail to see where the helmet would even come into play other than that. So he and his insurance company can pay the bills. But I suspect if that's the case I will have bigger problems like, you know, being dead. Because the magic foam bike helmet is going to do little if anything if I get slammed into by an SUV from some drunk.

At any rate I won't cry if our corporate scam healthcare system doesn't get paid their absurdly marked up fees only 10% or less of which go to the doctors and nurses lol If there is anything to be taken there it's not to let the scammers charge whatever they want and then force the taxpayer to pay for it. If someone can rack up a million dollar hospital bill while dying in the course of less than a week then something is seriously wrong with the whole system. At least from the customer perspective, must be great for the CEOs raking in all that cash by operating a legal monopoly!

Last edited by Oneder; 05-06-20 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 05-06-20, 01:04 PM
  #3053  
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Originally Posted by Oneder View Post
It's very puzzling to me why you ever take your helmet off if you can crack your skull by falling while standing still. You can fall over backwards at any time and land on your head and DIE man. If someone hits me they will have to come up on the sidewalk or bike trail to get me. Since I ride at 10 mph or less and have never hit my head from a self caused spill in spite of hundreds of small ones I fail to see where the helmet would even come into play unless a drunk finally came up and got me on the sidewalk or ran a red light while I was crassing at the intersection to get to the bike trail. So he and his insurance company can pay the bills. But I suspect if that's the case I will have bigger problems like, you know, being dead. At any rate I won't cry if our corporate scam healthcare system doesn't get paid their absurdly marked up fees only 10% or less of which go to the doctors and nurses lol If there is anything to be taken there it's not to let the scammers charge whatever they want and then force the taxpayer to pay for it.
What a meaningful argument for not wearing a helmet! Summarized: Why do you wear a helmet biking when you don't wear a helmet all the time?
.

I'm still waiting for a reasoned argument for not wearing one. This isn't one.

Last edited by LeftyS7; 05-07-20 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 05-06-20, 03:26 PM
  #3054  
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From a middle if the roader...If I was involved in a high impact crash I would prefer to have a helmet on. The fact that I can't make that decision while its happening makes me lean more often than not to wearing a helmet.
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Old 05-09-20, 12:39 AM
  #3055  
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Originally Posted by LeftyS7 View Post
What a meaningful argument for not wearing a helmet! Summarized: Why do you wear a helmet biking when you don't wear a helmet all the time?
.

I'm still waiting for a reasoned argument for not wearing one. This isn't one.
Because cycling is no more dangerous than many other common activities such as getting in and out of the tub/shower or walking on ice or wet surfaces (both of which have caused me to slip and really ring my bell). So choosing to not wear a helmet when riding a bike is as rational as not wearing one in those conditions.
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Old 05-09-20, 08:37 AM
  #3056  
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
Because cycling is no more dangerous than many other common activities such as getting in and out of the tub/shower or walking on ice or wet surfaces (both of which have caused me to slip and really ring my bell). So choosing to not wear a helmet when riding a bike is as rational as not wearing one in those conditions.
Nope, not even close.That's NOT why it's better not to wear a helmet.
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Old 05-09-20, 09:26 AM
  #3057  
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Originally Posted by LeftyS7 View Post
Nope, not even close.That's NOT why it's better not to wear a helmet.
You wanted a ‘reasoned argument for not wearing a helmet’. You got one. Now you’ve shifted the goalposts to ‘why it’s better not to wear a helmet’. Nice.

Why is it better not to wear one? Because I can use the money I would have spent on a helmet to buy some good beer.
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Old 05-09-20, 10:02 AM
  #3058  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
You wanted a ‘reasoned argument for not wearing a helmet’. You got one. Now you’ve shifted the goalposts to ‘why it’s better not to wear a helmet’. Nice.

Why is it better not to wear one? Because I can use the money I would have spent on a helmet to buy some good beer.
You are right, I incorrectly stated my concern. Your answer, tho, is the same as others: "because I'm willing to take the risk". Yeah, I got that one.
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Old 05-11-20, 02:26 PM
  #3059  
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Originally Posted by LeftyS7 View Post
What a meaningful argument for not wearing a helmet! Summarized: Why do you wear a helmet biking when you don't wear a helmet all the time?
.

I'm still waiting for a reasoned argument for not wearing one. This isn't one.
You said your reason for wearing a helmet was learning you could crack your skull from falling off your bike without even moving. You can do that without the bike, too. So if that is your reasoning it's time to either give up on helmets or start wearing them in the shower lol
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Old 05-11-20, 02:57 PM
  #3060  
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Originally Posted by Oneder View Post
You said your reason for wearing a helmet was learning you could crack your skull from falling off your bike without even moving. You can do that without the bike, too. So if that is your reasoning it's time to either give up on helmets or start wearing them in the shower lol
Again not a valid reason for not wearing one.
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Old 05-11-20, 05:27 PM
  #3061  
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Originally Posted by LeftyS7 View Post
Again not a valid reason for not wearing one.
How do you justify not wearing a helmet all the time?
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Old 05-12-20, 11:04 PM
  #3062  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
How do you justify not wearing a helmet all the time?
He can't. He's just being typical helmet advocate: Wear it just because.
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Old 05-15-20, 07:33 AM
  #3063  
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I do wear a helmet when mountain biking and it is useful. If you are riding on mups and bike lanes at reasonable speed it just doesn't have a purpose. If you are riding in traffic it's not going to be nearly enough and I would consider a motorcycle helmet at that point.
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Old 05-15-20, 11:38 AM
  #3064  
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Originally Posted by Oneder View Post
I do wear a helmet when mountain biking and it is useful. If you are riding on mups and bike lanes at reasonable speed it just doesn't have a purpose. If you are riding in traffic it's not going to be nearly enough and I would consider a motorcycle helmet at that point.

Color me confused ??? " .... IT JUST DOESN'T HAVE A PURPOSE....IT'S NOT GOING TO BE NEARLY ENOUGH .... "


I have gone down via the undignified Tom Bay, have gone down on a MUP at a reasonable speed, have gone down in traffic at an unreasonable(?) speed while fortunately not being hit by a vehicle, all hitting my helmeted head resulting in Organic matter and pavement matter implanted in body-clothing-bicycle AND HELMET.

Never a headache, blood producing cut or loss of consciousness. Pretty sure if my head did not have a helmet, the aforementioned results would have been different.

Last edited by OldTryGuy; 05-15-20 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 05-15-20, 11:53 AM
  #3065  
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In 1975 I was hit a glancing blow by an old dude in a sliver Buick deuce-and-a-quarter. That put me on the ground at a high speed with the bike safely ejected to the boulevard strip.
In 1987 I went down at 12ish mph on a bike path due to an accumulation of sand in a corner.
In the early 70s I went down quite a few times in crits.
In none of these instances was I wearing a helmet, not even a hairnet.

I have never hit my head. In fact, the only time I ever did hit my head was on a low-hanging branch up in the San Gabriel mountains. I had ridden under that branch many times but had recently started wearing a helmet even on casual trail rides. Had I not had the helmet on I would not have hit my head.

I will not proselytize on either side of the argument. It's your choice and my choice, but I do wonder if people lack the natural instinct to not hit their head or if they are hitting their head because it is surrounded by a protrusion that the sub-conscience does not account for.

HFS, I have not posted in a helmet thread in years.
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Old 05-15-20, 02:56 PM
  #3066  
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Originally Posted by OldTryGuy View Post
Color me confused ??? " .... IT JUST DOESN'T HAVE A PURPOSE....IT'S NOT GOING TO BE NEARLY ENOUGH .... "


I have gone down via the undignified Tom Bay, have gone down on a MUP at a reasonable speed, have gone down in traffic at an unreasonable(?) speed while fortunately not being hit by a vehicle, all hitting my helmeted head resulting in Organic matter and pavement matter implanted in body-clothing-bicycle AND HELMET.

Never a headache, blood producing cut or loss of consciousness. Pretty sure if my head did not have a helmet, the aforementioned results would have been different.
Do you have some actual point to your post?

If you get hit at 50 mph a flimsy bike helmet will do nothing to save you. A motorcycle helmet will definitely help a lot if you crash going 60 mph yourself I have done so many times with no effect and would give some better chance if hit someone less than 50 mph or less than a solid hit by a car. So I would wear a motorcycle helmet if I were forced to do so by poverty or whatever. Now if you want to get hit by car with no helmet that is fine with me, do whatever you want.

As for MUPs they all have speed limits though somehow many people can't seem to figure this out. If you are going the speed limit there is no need for a helmet unless you get hit head on by an ebike or something. But again if you want to wear or not feel free.
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Old 05-15-20, 02:59 PM
  #3067  
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Originally Posted by JustinOldPhart View Post
In 1975 I was hit a glancing blow by an old dude in a sliver Buick deuce-and-a-quarter. That put me on the ground at a high speed with the bike safely ejected to the boulevard strip.
In 1987 I went down at 12ish mph on a bike path due to an accumulation of sand in a corner.
In the early 70s I went down quite a few times in crits.
In none of these instances was I wearing a helmet, not even a hairnet.

I have never hit my head. In fact, the only time I ever did hit my head was on a low-hanging branch up in the San Gabriel mountains. I had ridden under that branch many times but had recently started wearing a helmet even on casual trail rides. Had I not had the helmet on I would not have hit my head.

I will not proselytize on either side of the argument. It's your choice and my choice, but I do wonder if people lack the natural instinct to not hit their head or if they are hitting their head because it is surrounded by a protrusion that the sub-conscience does not account for.

HFS, I have not posted in a helmet thread in years.
Two things.

One, some people are just waaaay more prone to get injured for whatever reason.

Two, hardly anyone is actually getting killed or seriously injured on bicycles especially in proportion to miles ridden and how many people are riding. And when they do it is usually either something totally unavoidable like a drunk driver, or because they themselves did something really stupid and unsafe. And if it's the latter then obviously a helmet law would not help even if we believed helmets were much more effective than they actually are, because people doing things like that are not going to obey anyway.
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Old 05-15-20, 05:05 PM
  #3068  
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Originally Posted by Oneder View Post
Do you have some actual point to your post?....................As for MUPs they all have speed limits though somehow many people can't seem to figure this out. If you are going the speed limit there is no need for a helmet unless you get hit head on by an ebike or something. But again if you want to wear or not feel free.
Actual point referenced your claim that wearing a helmet "...JUST DOESN'T HAVE A PURPOSE..." and "...IT'S NOT GOING TO BE NEARLY ENOUGH ..."

It is my belief that if hitting my head on the ground/pavement from a height of 5' whether from at a complete stop or at 30mph resulted in no injury, then the HELMET did indeed SERVE A PURPOSE AND WAS ENOUGH protection from what might have been.

p.s. -- As I type this I am 18 days from a MUP riding crash resulting after a 150lb wild pig sideswiped me. Helmeted head impacted the ground with dirt and grass becoming one with the helmet. My torso did not fair as well as my head and its contents since I cracked my left scapula, cracked 5th and 6th ribs and punctured my lung.

Last edited by OldTryGuy; 05-15-20 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 06-16-20, 09:43 AM
  #3069  
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Why I wear a helmet

Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
He can't. He's just being typical helmet advocate: Wear it just because.
I wear the helmet for the "what if" scenario. I love my wife -- I love my children. I wear the helmet in the belief that if I'm involved in a car/bike crash, I might not be killed or permanently disabled. Do I think they are effective? Nope. Do I think that my significant other let's me ride my bike on a 4-lane road knowing that I'm "protected" by a foam coconut shell? Yep. Car vs. bike is a no-brainer -- car wins. But letting my family think that I'm protected while cycling is better than the alternative.
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Old 06-19-20, 01:45 AM
  #3070  
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Just tried my full face helmet on and wondered why I don't wear that all the time. It's definitely much safer than my regular helmets. And the reason is that it is hot and uncomfortable. It's the same reason even the most ardent helmet advocates don't wear moto helmets even though they provide vastly better protection than any bicycle helmet on the market. I mean if you really want to be safe and be rational about it, that's what you'd use right?

So really it boils down to having just enough protection for any particular activity. What should be understood is that there variable levels of risk in various types of cycling. Also location matters.

Downhill, freeride and dirt jump riders usually use full face helmets. The risk is is high and so one needs more protection. Still a bicycle full face is not nearly as good as a moto helmet even though in all aforementioned disciplines speeds occasionally climb higher that in your run of the mill moto enduro etc.

Road cycling on the other hand is fast but lacks boulders for the most part. Still has cars though and at times speeds which are well within motor traffic speeds. Yet road cyclists rarely use kevlar reinforced sliding suits, full face helmets etc even though from a protection point of view there are good reasons for them. Road cyclists want to be comfortable.

I'm on my phone so I'll make a bit of a leap here to save time and my fingers. But if the minimum requirement is a helmet all the time when cycling no matter what, then anything riskier that 7-10mph town cycling would require significantly more protection that just the regular cycle helmet. Because if a helmet is enough for the safest type of cycling (slow town cycling with a slow upright bike), then it is no longer nearly enough when the going gets riskier.

Or could it be that the truth is somewhere in the middle and people are generally competent on deciding whether they require protection for any particular cycling activity? So a helmet is a good idea for road cycling and a definite must for mountain biking but not a necessity for a competent rider going slow. I use a helmet when I road and mountain cycle and am considering some extra protection for mountain biking. When I'm doing day to day utility riding or commuting I don't bother with a helmet. I live in a safe country so the likelihood of getting into something completely unexpectedly bizarre like getting bowled over by a pig is close to nil. It'd be more likely to be hit by a meteor I think.
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Old 06-22-20, 06:23 AM
  #3071  
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they should've cared, safety first!
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Old 06-25-20, 11:36 AM
  #3072  
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Hoo boy I am definitely going to start wearing a helmet more regularly (got an ugly one from Argos that makes me look like a lollipop on a bicycle) after reading all of these stories.
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Old 06-27-20, 07:28 AM
  #3073  
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.. reading the Glorious and Endless Helment Thread is a scientifically valid measure of personal boredom.
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Old 06-27-20, 07:31 AM
  #3074  
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
Because cycling is no more dangerous than many other common activities such as getting in and out of the tub/shower or walking on ice or wet surfaces (both of which have caused me to slip and really ring my bell). So choosing to not wear a helmet when riding a bike is as rational as not wearing one in those conditions.
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Old 06-29-20, 07:18 AM
  #3075  
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Speaking from recent experience, they work. I had a rear wheel malfunction 6 days ago on a very benign stretch of rural flat road and launched like a missile headfirst into a road sign. Hit it dead-square on the top of my MIPs rated helmet. Columns of Styrofoam form a network of support structures between the helmets vent holes. In addition to the top of the helmet compressing and visibly flattening by a CM or so, 8 of those columns were cracked clean thru as was the thin plastic shell on top of the foam.

Broken C7 vertebra, an obliterated "burst fractured" T3 vertebra due to the impact, and a nasty concussion. Thankfully due to who knows what or why, no paralysis. No helmet would have meant the skull would have taken all that impact force. I highly doubt I'd be sitting here now had I not been wearing one. "Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind." - M.J. Keenan

Last edited by M1T; 06-29-20 at 12:48 PM.
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