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How do you deal with the fear of being ran over one day? Almost ran over a few times.

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How do you deal with the fear of being ran over one day? Almost ran over a few times.

Old 11-13-19, 03:53 AM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz
I'd rather die once on a road than die a thousand times riding on a multi-use path...
Let's hope your family feel the same.
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Old 11-13-19, 04:09 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I'm pretty sure "stupid idea" didn't leave a lot of room for interpretation of what you said.

So how many 100s of millions of us do you think can fit into Milton Keynes? We're kind of stuck with that unacceptable here for now.
I'm happy to clear up what I mean.

Smoking is a stupid thing to do. Over a million people take up smoking every year, and over a million people die of smoking-related illnesses every year. Just because millions of people smoke, doesn't mean it's not a stupid thing to do.

When you're sat at the side of the road, cars behind vans can't see you until their close pass misses you by sheer luck. You're a sitting duck. Cyclists get killed all the time, and almost all of them are killed on the roads.

Placing yourself in that hugely dangerous position is a stupid thing to do, and the fact that most people reading this do just that, does not make it any less of a stupid thing to do.
Offended? Well, if you're killed, and the police have to tell your partner/children, they're gonna be pretty bloody offended too. So excuse me or not.

So. What can you do about it..? Kid yourself into thinking it's okay? Stop riding?

I remember a topic a while back about a cyclist hit by a car, when riding in the shoulder would've avoided it. But the shoulder's full of stones, glass, car parts...
It's for you guys to campaign to get these turned into cycle paths. To get your new developments built with cycle paths. To step-up the infrastructure for cyclists.

But it's not gonna happen whilst you accept the status quo. Whilst you carry on sitting at the side of the road, getting killed.
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Old 11-13-19, 05:48 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Dying a thousand times anywhere doesn't sound very appealing, btw. I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean.
It means you need an ebike with the "regeneration" feature.
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Old 11-13-19, 06:01 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK
I'm happy to clear up what I mean.

Smoking is a stupid thing to do. Over a million people take up smoking every year, and over a million people die of smoking-related illnesses every year. Just because millions of people smoke, doesn't mean it's not a stupid thing to do.

When you're sat at the side of the road, cars behind vans can't see you until their close pass misses you by sheer luck. You're a sitting duck. Cyclists get killed all the time, and almost all of them are killed on the roads.

Placing yourself in that hugely dangerous position is a stupid thing to do, and the fact that most people reading this do just that, does not make it any less of a stupid thing to do.
Offended? Well, if you're killed, and the police have to tell your partner/children, they're gonna be pretty bloody offended too. So excuse me or not.

So. What can you do about it..? Kid yourself into thinking it's okay? Stop riding?

I remember a topic a while back about a cyclist hit by a car, when riding in the shoulder would've avoided it. But the shoulder's full of stones, glass, car parts...
It's for you guys to campaign to get these turned into cycle paths. To get your new developments built with cycle paths. To step-up the infrastructure for cyclists.

But it's not gonna happen whilst you accept the status quo. Whilst you carry on sitting at the side of the road, getting killed.
The logical fallacies you commit in that post were definitely stupid choices. First, no one is accepting the status quo, we're for the most part advocating for the expansion of bike infrastructure, but that is a very long-term process, going to take decades, and many of us will probably not be around long enough to see anything resembling the possibility of practical road-free biking of any significant distance between an actual starting point and destination. So basically, you're suggesting we either don't ride, or we confine our riding to the very narrow corridors and short distances where there are paths. This is incredibly stupid for a whole host of reasons, but the one that leaps to mind immediately is that It's self-defeating. You want to guarantee there isn't going to be political change? The best way to do that is reduce the number of people biking, and make the ones doing it confine themselves to recreational and largely invisible path riding.

Your overstatement of the dangers of road riding is simply inexcusable. For most of us, the alternatives are riding on the road, driving and being a pedestrian. Statistically, both driving and walking are more dangerous than riding, and many more drivers and pedestrians are killed every day than cyclists. Road use generally in the US is more dangerous than it should be, but your choices here are either take on some of that risk to get somewhere or be entirely homebound.

Seriously, I really hate it when people in the US start lecturing people in other countries on how they should behave in a context in which they have no experience. You're doing just that, and your conclusions are quite stupid. Telling people they're making bad choices without actually understanding the options they're facing is quite pointless and arrogant.

My advice, quit digging. You said something dumb, and now you're just making it worse trying to "clarify" it.
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Old 11-13-19, 10:28 AM
  #130  
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Sidewalks, Sidewalks, Sidewalks

Sidewalks, Sidewalks, Sidewalks !!!
It's actually "against the law" here in this miserable city after 12 years old; but a ticket is better than being dead, and I've never gotten a ticket.

Plenty of Ghost Bikes around here. Saw one the other day on the way home from the Library, amazed at how many flower arrangements were left there, at least 20 of them recently left, maybe an anniversary ??.
The driver probably just paid a fine, if they were even caught at all.

It'll take you longer to get where you're going, and you may have to walk the bike for stretches when it's crowded, but it's safer.
Alleys also, my to work commute I use the alleys to go North-South, or East-West, etc, if I can.
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Old 11-13-19, 10:35 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz
I'd rather die once on a road than die a thousand times riding on a multi-use path...
So unbelievable that you wrote this because, we just had a serious stabbing (I guess there is no other kind of stabbing) on a popular MUP here in town. Victim not a cyclist, but certainly could have been, given how many there are on these paths.
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Old 11-13-19, 09:57 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
You said something dumb, and now you're just making it worse trying to "clarify" it.
The rest of your response was just worming and excuses, but I would just like to ensure there is no confusion whatsoever on this one point you make right there - at first i was being restrained. I told you I was expanding on my point because I was expanding on my point. Make no misinterpretation about it, I very well mean what I'm saying and I don't need you to to excuse it or explain it.
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Old 11-13-19, 11:39 PM
  #133  
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Live your life not your fears!
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Old 11-14-19, 12:13 AM
  #134  
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Today while I did a ride from Long Beach to Lancaster doing a Century, I had a couple occasions too close.

First I was on a narrow road and the edge of the road had like this light concrete section that was about a foot wide but was about 3 inches above not on level with the black tarmac. I had a truck startle me when it passed by me less than 3 feet, then I started to turn my head back whenever a vehicle closes in. I saw this Nissan drive a bit aggressively near me and I turned around and tried to get far from it and I steered into the concrete edge and my front wheel started skidding sideways and I almost lost control, there was barely any space so imagine if I had wiped out on the tarmac with traffic.

The second time I am ready to make a left turn and the arrow turns green but I wasn't clipped in so it took a couple of seconds to move and this black pick up truck crosses my path on a red light turn about 7 feet away from me.

Also there were also these times I was on a 55 mph linit road and there were two lanes so I was assertive enough take the lane on my own and 9 out of 10 cars would just move over to the next lane behind me but the 1 out of 10 mostly these mustang/charger drivers didn't even budge and I had to bail out a couple of times. that ride was stressful but I had no choices in roads to take since they were limited there.
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Old 11-14-19, 04:03 AM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK
The rest of your response was just worming and excuses, but I would just like to ensure there is no confusion whatsoever on this one point you make right there - at first i was being restrained. I told you I was expanding on my point because I was expanding on my point. Make no misinterpretation about it, I very well mean what I'm saying and I don't need you to to excuse it or explain it.

OK, I acknowledge you intentionally said something stupid and offensive. Feel better?

Oh, and my "worming and excuses" showed you were wrong on every single point, so I can see why you would want to ignore that.

Last edited by livedarklions; 11-14-19 at 04:09 AM.
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Old 11-14-19, 04:17 AM
  #136  
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You can always sleep in all day and check out in bed...

There are a million ways to die...whether the city is naked or not.

You have no say so just be as careful as you can and hope the trolley is pretty.
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Old 11-14-19, 04:28 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by RMoudatir
Today while I did a ride from Long Beach to Lancaster doing a Century, I had a couple occasions too close.

First I was on a narrow road and the edge of the road had like this light concrete section that was about a foot wide but was about 3 inches above not on level with the black tarmac. I had a truck startle me when it passed by me less than 3 feet, then I started to turn my head back whenever a vehicle closes in. I saw this Nissan drive a bit aggressively near me and I turned around and tried to get far from it and I steered into the concrete edge and my front wheel started skidding sideways and I almost lost control, there was barely any space so imagine if I had wiped out on the tarmac with traffic.

The second time I am ready to make a left turn and the arrow turns green but I wasn't clipped in so it took a couple of seconds to move and this black pick up truck crosses my path on a red light turn about 7 feet away from me.

Also there were also these times I was on a 55 mph linit road and there were two lanes so I was assertive enough take the lane on my own and 9 out of 10 cars would just move over to the next lane behind me but the 1 out of 10 mostly these mustang/charger drivers didn't even budge and I had to bail out a couple of times. that ride was stressful but I had no choices in roads to take since they were limited there.

I'm not going to take apart your riding, but a couple of things jump out at me as to how I handle similar situations differently. One obvious difference is I use platform pedals as it's simply one less thing to consider when I need to make a quick change. I definitely notice that I get a quicker start on stoplights than people who have to click in.

The uneven pavement situation is really difficult. If I understand your description correctly, you really have no options there other than take a straight line and stick with it or hop off the bike and get off the road. If I'm going to stay on such a road, I am not going to do much of anything to see what's coming from behind me because it's either going to hit me or not no matter what I do, while hitting the uneven pavement is something I need to actively avoid.

I don't care how many lanes there are, I'm never going to try to take a 55 mph lane unless it's ABSOLUTELY necessary.
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Old 11-14-19, 05:46 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz
I'd rather die once on a road than die a thousand times riding on a multi-use path...
What's your problem with MUPS ??....Other then than the possibility of becoming a victim of crime ( that can happen anywhere )...MUPS are perfectly safe....With all the road rage incidents we have happening, you're not 100% safe no matter where you ride.
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Old 11-14-19, 06:02 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
What's your problem with MUPS ??....Other then than the possibility of becoming a victim of crime ( that can happen anywhere )...MUPS are perfectly safe....With all the road rage incidents we have happening, you're not 100% safe no matter where you ride.
My impression of people who categorically put down MUPs is that they usually don't know where the good ones are, or they live somewhere where the ones they can access suck.

There's places where the MUP is not only the safest alternative, it's also the fastest by far.
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Old 11-14-19, 06:29 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
There's places where the MUP is not only the safest alternative, it's also the fastest by far.
^ This is true. In the metro DC area, there is an abundance of good trails that link neighborhoods and follow major transportation corridors. The trail network permits one to get out congested city and suburban areas somewhat safely, certainly in ways that would take seriously good riding skills and a high level of awareness to survive using the roadways exclusively.

Originally Posted by wolfchild
What's your problem with MUPS ??...
My problem with riding on the MUPs is that they are at the same time constraining because of the nature of various types of users, especially during the times where I might choose to use them. My wife and I often ride on these paths on weekends for a lunch date into town or to explore a new area in the city. Our perception is that the highest danger moments come when we're in close proximity to other trail users, combined with someone behaving unpredictably. One has to be alert and to minimize risky choices to stay out of trouble.

Some of us can live with that compromise to gain the safety and convenience that MUPs offer. I can and do on occasion. It's not my preferred type of riding.

Last edited by Phil_gretz; 11-14-19 at 06:32 AM. Reason: added second quote
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Old 11-14-19, 08:31 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
My impression of people who categorically put down MUPs is that they usually don't know where the good ones are, or they live somewhere where the ones they can access suck.

There's places where the MUP is not only the safest alternative, it's also the fastest by far.
Originally Posted by Phil_gretz
^ This is true. In the metro DC area, there is an abundance of good trails that link neighborhoods and follow major transportation corridors.

The trail network permits one to get out congested city and suburban areas somewhat safely, certainly in ways that would take seriously good riding skills and a high level of awareness to survive using the roadways exclusively.
Originally Posted by wolfchild
What's your problem with MUPS ??....Other then than the possibility of becoming a victim of crime ( that can happen anywhere )...MUPS are perfectly safe...

.With all the road rage incidents we have happening, you're not 100% safe no matter where you ride.
My problem with riding on the MUPs is that they are at the same time constraining because of the nature of various types of users, especially during the times where I might choose to use them.

My wife and I often ride on these paths on weekends for a lunch date into town or to explore a new area in the city.

Our perception is that the highest danger moments come when we're in close proximity to other trail users, combined with someone behaving unpredictably. One has to be alert and to minimize risky choices to stay out of trouble.

Some of us can live with that compromise to gain the safety and convenience that MUPs offer. I can and do on occasion. It's not my preferred type of riding.
FYA, I have posted recently:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
"Courtesy on the bike paths..."

Now, my viewpoint on MUPS is influenced by living in the genteel City of Boston, where the MUPS are indeed public parks; and wide paved routes.

Last week, I visited Washington DC and checked out the widely touted Rock Creek trail (see photo), at least in the vicinity of Dupont Circle, where the bikes seem to be definitely second class. That segment is narrow with a two lane high-speed roadway on one side, and a wall of leafy green on the other.



That photo was an early Saturday morning.

The path looks more utilitarian than pastoral, for runners training, and likely for cycle commuters to avoid notorious Washington traffic. Courtesy, even deference seems to be only means of coexistence.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
"Cheering on New Bike Lanes..."

There is a current thread on the A&S forum, I almost got doored - yet most drivers blame me. How do we improve car culture?,”with a big brouhaha about riding along parked cars… do or don’t; be watchful, or install new technology in cars.

I was mindful of that thread when two days ago I rode my bike from downtown Boston South Station (Railroad), about five miles out to the Brighton neighborhood.

The first quarter mile is through a dense commercial maze with heavy auto and pedestrian traffic, then less than a quarter mile on car-free Boston Common.

Next was about a mile on one-way Beacon Street with parked cars on both sides. That used to be a hazardous ride IMO until a while back this bike lane was installed, safe from traffic, but still beset with more predictable hazards of intersections, pedestrians, salmoning cyclists, but with a buffer zone from opening passenger side doors.





Then a short segment through Kenmore Square to Commonwealth Avenue (“Comm Ave”), with a prominent presence of Boston University with a heavy cycling population, as well as a commercial thoroughfare. It is in the vicinity of a few cycling fatalities in the recent years.

Much to my delight I found this new, beautiful separate bike lane with a similar one on the opposite side.



The last mile of my trip was on a typical bike lane I thought was wide enough to comfortably accommodate riding on the left side to avoid sudden door openings.



Later on my return trip, cycling traffic was heavier, and the faster cyclists did use the auto travel lane, but traffic is calmed by fairly closely spaced traffic signals.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 11-14-19 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 11-14-19, 08:46 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz
^ This is true. In the metro DC area, there is an abundance of good trails that link neighborhoods and follow major transportation corridors. The trail network permits one to get out congested city and suburban areas somewhat safely, certainly in ways that would take seriously good riding skills and a high level of awareness to survive using the roadways exclusively.



My problem with riding on the MUPs is that they are at the same time constraining because of the nature of various types of users, especially during the times where I might choose to use them. My wife and I often ride on these paths on weekends for a lunch date into town or to explore a new area in the city. Our perception is that the highest danger moments come when we're in close proximity to other trail users, combined with someone behaving unpredictably. One has to be alert and to minimize risky choices to stay out of trouble.

Some of us can live with that compromise to gain the safety and convenience that MUPs offer. I can and do on occasion. It's not my preferred type of riding.
Really can't argue with preferences.

I'm not sure whether I'm less likely to get injured on a MUP, but I'm certainly less likely to be seriously injured or killed.

The car equivalent is that statistically in terms of numbers of accidents, some of the most dangerous places to drive are parking lots and gas stations, but that just shows how many more fender benders there are than injury accidents.
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Old 11-14-19, 09:03 AM
  #143  
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I assess risk, mitigate it and move on with what I want to do; in this case, ride my bicycles. I won't let the fear of something that is an absolute certainty (death) keep me from living.
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Old 11-15-19, 06:23 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
A pool noodle makes a cyclist look idiotic and won't prevent a distracted driver from hitting them. If a distracted driver can't even see a car or a red light or a stop sign, do you really think that they're going to notice a pool noodle ??...A pool noodle would also be very impractical when filtering between cars in traffic or when riding on MUPS full of other people...If somebody is really that fearful then maybe it's time for them to give up cycling and find another activity that is safer.
Originally Posted by shelbyfv
I was recently on a supported ride where someone was using a pool noodle. They looked beyond ridiculous. It's true they weren't ran over but neither were any of the others.
On our tandem, we have used a noodle locally on road and on tour in Alaska and Oregon. I agree it looks ridiculous. It does seem to have a positive effect in getting vehicles to give us a bit more room when they pass. Yes, it has to be reoriented when we get off the roads and onto a multi-use path in order to not be a nuisance to others.

As for the negative comments regarding how the noodle looks, to each their own. Plenty of non-cyclists think that any cyclist on the road is stupid and that ones in lycra and other bicycle clothing look stupid too. I don't care what you wear or what your bike looks like so what difference does it make what bikes look like ridden by others?

Short of not riding on the road there is little any cyclist can do to protect themselves against inattentive and distracted drivers or malicious drivers. The laws of physics and human anatomy favor anything heavier and faster than a cyclist.
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Old 11-15-19, 06:41 PM
  #145  
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listen.

trust your ears,when in doubt move closer to the edge.I usually have a buffer zone that when something sounds too close you have the spare foot to move over.just stay alert.if your not alert use a rear facing gopro so you will have a witness should you need it.
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Old 11-15-19, 11:49 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by '02 nrs
trust your ears,when in doubt move closer to the edge.I usually have a buffer zone that when something sounds too close you have the spare foot to move over.just stay alert.if your not alert use a rear facing gopro so you will have a witness should you need it.
Sometimes I don't have that spare foot to hug. Once I had a truck not even moving out of the way behind me at high speed with no bike lane and cars parked all to my right but I found this space between two parked cars a couple seconds before the truck came.
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Old 11-16-19, 01:13 AM
  #147  
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RMoutadir;

It comes to this: Do it or do something else. Choose.

First, you know it is all in your mind. You say you are scared by individual vehicles, but not by steady traffic? Steady traffic is a stream of .... wait for it ... Individual Vehicles. One startles you, the other does not, but the other is exactly as more deadly as the number of vehicles in the stream.

Second, whether you want to admit it or not, you don't have to ride. You can get another job---people change jobs all the time. Maybe this is the job you want ... but that is a choice. Accept the choice, or make a different one. All this waffling serves only harmful purpose.

You have decided to ride on those roads. No one is holding a gun to your head. And maybe deciding to do something else would be a huge and complicated decision, a life-changing decision. But if you get hit and crippled, that is life-changing too.

Equally, choosing to accept the choices you have already made and to accept the life you have chosen, would be equally life-changing.

We all have moments when a vehicle comes too close and we get a little scared ... but then, we don't get hit.

Some of us have been hit, too. But then, some folks have been hit by lightning. Some folks have fought in wars and been killed after they got home safely. The only certainty is that we all leave here, one way or another, at some time or another. What we do here is what matters.

I know this sound harsh, but ... it is a matter of growing up. Accept your life and its risks and rewards, or change your life and its risks and rewards. People have told you everything you need to hear. Now it is a matter of you changing your mind and changing your life, one way or another.

I have ridden on the road for fifty years. I have tasted fender, eaten windshield, and sampled pavement more times than I like to remember. I still love riding. But only you are you. Choose honestly, because whatever you choose, there will be both costs and rewards.

Last edited by Maelochs; 11-16-19 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 11-16-19, 06:51 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK
The last few mornings I've practically slid through the posts at some 30mph, I'm pretty sure it's only a matter of time before I get it wrong...
30 mph on a MUP is already wrong....
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Old 11-16-19, 03:40 PM
  #149  
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I do most of my biking on trails, but I feel you on this. I used to commute when I was in my early 20s working at a funeral home. On my way home one day I was riding on a main strip when a car full of what had to be newly licensed 16 year olds pulled out without looking and hit me. It wasn't a major collision. When I say hit that sounds dramatic - it was more of a bump. I did freak out on them and tell them they needed to pay better attention, that people who weren't in motor vehicles also used the road. I think I scared them, but I was the one who rode away with a pounding heart. I haven't had an incident since. That was over 10 years ago. But I get nervous still if/when I commute these days. I think that's part of why I don't consistently commute via bike. It sucks.
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Old 11-16-19, 05:04 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Cheez
I too have been getting close calls with the cars, trucks, and buses but I never got hit..
OP, ask Jesus to protect you and he will. His Angel's are constantly at work. Either pray before riding a bike in the busy traffic or at least expect him to protect you. This is serious.
Certainly not pushing my religion on anyone else, but I absolutely pray before every ride. Twice. Once, the night before. Then, again right before I head out. I ride through some pretty questionable areas of town at 430 in the morning some days. Guy just got stabbed on a MUP I am on routinely. I'm not 30 years old anymore. I figure I need all the assistance I can possibly get.
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