Ashen

I have tried and am not able to find any information about this older bike, and I'm hoping someone here knows a little bit about it. It's a road bike, seems to be a steel frame, heavy as hell. Shifters are on the stem, 27" wheels. Strangest thing (to me, maybe its common on bikes of the era) is that there is no freewheel, there is free backward motion in the cranks. So when you move the cranks backwards, the rings don't go with it, and the rear wheel just has 5 spaced fixed cogs on it.

I don't know what to make of this bike, and didn't see anything on Google, so again I'm just hoping maybe someone here knows of a good place to research these things, or maybe knows a little bit more about it.

number6

Set the wayback machine to 1975, what you have is a Nishiki that was originally equipped with a Front Free Wheel system and Pos-I-Tron shifting, the original attempt at index shifting by Shimano. Designed for those who could not remember to pedal and shift at the same time. Rumor was that it would eventually be offered in Dura Ace so a racer could coast through a corner and shift ready to accelerate in a better gear upon finishing the corner, never happened.

The Positron shift system was a big problem, not accurate enough manufacture and very fragile, used a solid wire rather than a cable, would not surprise me if it has been replaced.

The bikes with it competed with a Schwinn Varsity for heft. For a while all the Junior (24") wheel Nishiki 10 speed bikes came with it, Peugeots became very popular instead in that size.

Ashen

Yeah it definitely isn't any sort of indexed shifting, so it looks like that has been replaced at some point. Thanks for the info on the bike, good to know.

T-Mar

The FFS Tourist was a late 1970's, entry level model. It was actually about 3rd or 4th from the bottom of the line, depending on the actual year.

Most people consider Positron to be a dismal failure and a blight on Shimano's resume. However, I suspect that Positron must have been more successful that most people give it credit, as it survived into the 1980s. Ultimately, it did develop into the SIS indexed system of the late 1980s and the STI indexed sysytem in use to-day, and for that alone Positron should be considered a landmark.

The cogs on the back actually do freewheel, in a sense. They are not fixed, but are much higher friction than a normal freewheel. Shimano has a habit of re-engineering and resurrecting old designs. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is a another FFS in the future.

number6

Strategically it could have been a red herring, after it came out, no one else considered index shifting, allowing Shimano to engineer SIS and start a period of domination. Positron used the rear mechanism for the index, SIS used the levers for control.

Ashen

Is there likely to be any problem with me replacing the friction shifters with these?

If the answer is 'it depends' as it often is, what do I need to measure to be sure?

number6

The question is what mechanism are those SIS thumbshifters for? and what should be the space interval for the rear cogs? Maybe an old copy of Sutherland's Handbook would reference it 3rd or 4th edition perhaps?

meatwad

<<Is there likely to be any problem with me replacing the friction shifters with these?>>

Yes. Problems a plenty.

If it is like the one I had the indexing was done on the rear derailer and with a solid wire. The derailer has no return spring. It is push/ pull not pull/ return.

If you replaced the derailers it might work.

Ashen

Alright, one last question about this bike. Assuming it's in fair but not that good condition, how much should I ask for it? The original Positron shifting has been replaced with a basic standard friction setup, but the front freewheel setup is still in place. Can I get $50 for it? Is it worth more/less than that? Am I even going to be able to sell it? If you have a ballpark idea, let me know.

USAZorro

Maybe - a lot depends on where you live.

Ashen

Seattle area, lots of bikers around.

EricofAZ

I owned one of these when I was in high school in the mid 70's. Sold it to pay for flying lessons. Now, 30 years later, I'm kinda keeping one eye open to see if another turns up somewhere for sale.

The FFS, or Front Freewheel System, was pretty snazzy and from what I remember, pretty unique. I think there "might" have been another company experimenting with FFS, but the Nishiki FFS was pretty much the only one of its kind.

There was no problem coasting. It had a freewheel, but with friction, so the chain spun all the time, even when coasting. If a pantleg got caught, the chain stopped so there was no safety issue.

What I miss about that bike was the neat way that you could shift at very low speed and without pedaling. Those panic stops that leave us in high gear didn't happen with the FFS because all I had to do was shift while braking and bang, it went. Or, shift while stopped and just walk the bike forward a few feet.

What I don't miss is the frame resonance at speed. I recall riding back to Tucson from Ryan Field one weekend and I was on a downhill trying to keep up with the cars. 55 mph + I came up on a bend in the road and found that the front wheel had so much gyroscopic force that it was nearly impossible to steer and I went off the shoulder slightly and then got the bike back on the road. The thing started resonating. I didn't know at the time what it was, I just knew the top tube was shaking side to side pretty rapidly and was banging my knees. I thought the bike was going to blow apart. I squeezed my knees together on the top tube, not because I thought that was the correct procedure, but because my knees were hurting from the banging and I thought it to be the best way to avoid further injury. The bike stopped shaking and when I got it stopped I just sat by the side of the road and threw up from the fright of it all.

That was about 1978 or so. I stopped riding until 85 when I found out that there was such a thing as a mountain bike.

I did not go back to a roadie until 2004. I thought technology had changed. I bought a LeMond Versailles Spine. I was wrong. I don't take that bike over 40. Now I have a pure custom and all carbon bike that is good to much higher speeds. Looking forward to another Ryan Field trip this summer.

Still, I think I would enjoy having that FFS back (it was burgandy) and using it for a commuter.

EricofAZ

Oh, I meant to say also that I had the basic edition. I think it was a "Tourist" or something like that. But there was a version of the bike that had gold colored cogs and chainrings and that was a very beautiful thing to look at in the pictures.

RobbieTunes

The Panasonic Tourist 10 also came with FFS in a certain model year.

And I know where both an NOS complete set of chain rings with bearings and an NOS set of chainr ings, sans bearings, are hanging in an LBS. Just in case you need one.

Toddvideo

I still have my Nishiki FFS Tourist (small frame). I worked at a bike shop "The Bicycle Tree" when I was a kid. As a Bar Mitzvah "present" (in 1976), the owners of the store let have the bike at cost which was like $67.


I repainted it years ago, and it needs a major overhaul. But I haven't been willing to part with it because of that cool FFS system.

-Todd Marks

thumpism 

Panasonic also made a 5-speed Tourist. I gave one to my sister and installed a baby seat on it for my nephew to get some miles in. Every time I worked on one of them I said, "Nice little bike!" and this became a joke in the shop.

While I was no great fan of the FFS, every one I ever had in the stand was fairly solid, no matter which brand of bike. There were several versions of Positron and some were more fiddly than others but they all worked and for the customers who bought them they were probably ideal.

Just as an aside, that era Panasonic bike had killer steel rims. They were the best quality, the truest and strongest steel rims I found on the market.

joecode

I just inherited my father's Nishiki FFS Tourist just as he bought it 40 years ago from May's bicycle shop in Provo, UT. It does not have indexed shifting on it. Never did. Perhaps they had an upgrade?

thumpism 

Many FFS bikes had Shimano Positron derailleurs. On that shifting system, the forerunner of SIS, the "click" was in the derailleur and not in the shifter. The later SIS was much more precise and was, as we all know, revolutionary.

T-Mar

Welcome to the forums. Positron was typically paired with the Front Freewheel System and employed on entry level models. While; it's possible that the bicycle was spec'd only with FFS, it's more likely that the Positron was replaced, either at the LBS or later. The various forms of Positron were produced from 1976-1984, while FFS was introduced for the 1977 model year produced though at least 1981. However, Nishiki had dropped the Toursit by 1981, so your bicycle should be 1977-1980.


The serial number should tell us the year of manufacture. It should be on the bottom bracket shell but if it's completely numerical, there will also be a five character date code on the rear dropout. You should also post photos, particularly of the drivetrain. We may be able to tell if the derailleur models are era correct. Ignore the forum warnings that you cannot post pictures until you reach 10 posts. While they will not appear with the post, they will be stored on the forums, in a repository where I can access them.

Clarkbaker

Hi T-Mar

I just pulled the 1977 Nishiki FFS Tourist out of the barn (literally). All original with the FFS system and Serial KG02518.

Based on that US Model - 1977 Year of manufacture and was the 2,518th bike made that year.... I’m new to the forum - I was doing some research and found this discussion thread ....

im cleaning it up now - but it does appear to be in good working order so far...

clark