Carbon Wheels with Rim Brakes - Obsolete?
04-24-24, 10:40 PM
#26
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Haven't used CF wheels in the 'wet' (we don;t normally get much of that out here, except these past 2 years...), but have heard from riders I trust, that wet braking is affected, on CF rims...
To the OP...
If you really want CF because you sense some real world advantage from them, for your riding, then do get them... Especially if the current wheels on the bike are holding you back.
But it's not a money-making 'investment'; it's purely for your own best felt use.
There are also good options for some very nice alloy wheels. For example, a set of HED Ardennes can now be bought (in the US) for $700 at full price - given some discount at some time, prolly a nice bit lower cost. They're Fast, Light, Highest Quality, durable, long lasting and really light... Ride incredibly well.
on the other hand...
IF you're buying with the idea of getting a higher 'resell' price on the bike - very likely it's not gonna happen...
Fact is if you can recoup 75% of the additional cost of new wheels - on a resell - then you're doing good....
People who buy 'Used' and especially if accepting to buy 'rim brake' old tech bikes, are doing so because they want a good deal, low cost.
A 2018 Emonda ALR is NOT a classic or vintage bike. It is a good bike, but not the latest.... SO if you add a cheap set of Carbon wheels to your 600 euro ALR, you'd still need to get 1000 euro to get close to break-even. Not a money maker, possibly a bigger money loser.
Ride On
Yuri
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04-24-24, 10:42 PM
#27
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These are prices delivered to your door too.
And for $550, you can get 35mm deep handbuilt rim brake wheels that weigh 1440g.
It's actually pretty cool to see.
04-25-24, 12:51 AM
#28
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I have one bike left with rim brakes which I bought in 2016, my Emonda ALR and I run carbon rims in a 50mm, but I live in Florida, so flat, wind, and rain. If I know rain is a guaranty at some point during the ride, I generally would take one of the disc brake bikes, but these days, I try to avoid riding in the rain as much as possible, that is what my trainer is for. I went with the deeper section wheels to deal with the wind as uber shallow climbing wheels were wasted on me, having no climbing to do here. I personally like the aesthetic look of the deeper wheels on the bike, and since I don't have hills, the brakes over heating is also a non concern. I use the Black Prince pads and if you do get caught in the rain or ride through any deep puddles, just make sure to check your wheels and pads after the ride for excessive dirt and grime so you are not grinding the brake surface off.
I run the Bontrager Aeolus Pro 5's with Pirelli P Zero Race TLR tubeless and with these rims, they measure right at 28mm. Had them for a couple of years, and they have been great wheels. I do not get pushed around in the wind or by trucks when they blow by me. They are 19.5 internal, 27 external. With Trek trying to clear out some inventory, they are also on sale, get a set of the Pro 5's or Pro's 3's (30mm I think), for $1200 and they have a lifetime warranty. I know they have the hub body for both Shimano and SRAM, I want to say, you can get a Campy one, but you'd have to inquire.
I personally think if you like the bike, why not get what makes you happy and makes your ride more enjoyable. I put SRAM Force AXS 12 speed with a spider based power meter on it at the beginning of 2023. Was there anything wrong with the 11 speed Ultegra I had on it? Nope, worked like a champ, but I figured as a present to myself for surviving another year, why not and have enjoyed riding that bike even more.
I run the Bontrager Aeolus Pro 5's with Pirelli P Zero Race TLR tubeless and with these rims, they measure right at 28mm. Had them for a couple of years, and they have been great wheels. I do not get pushed around in the wind or by trucks when they blow by me. They are 19.5 internal, 27 external. With Trek trying to clear out some inventory, they are also on sale, get a set of the Pro 5's or Pro's 3's (30mm I think), for $1200 and they have a lifetime warranty. I know they have the hub body for both Shimano and SRAM, I want to say, you can get a Campy one, but you'd have to inquire.
I personally think if you like the bike, why not get what makes you happy and makes your ride more enjoyable. I put SRAM Force AXS 12 speed with a spider based power meter on it at the beginning of 2023. Was there anything wrong with the 11 speed Ultegra I had on it? Nope, worked like a champ, but I figured as a present to myself for surviving another year, why not and have enjoyed riding that bike even more.
I'm undecided, but here are some potential candidates who I've already negotiated a reasonable price for:
Roval Rapid CLX 60 Ceramicspeed - 450€:
- 5000km
- Ceramicspeed
- Schwalbe One 25mm Tires
- MSRP: 2500€
- https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-...ze-2043676245/
Oval-Conepts Carbon - 350€
- 1000km
- MSRP: 1000€ ?
- 28mm Tires
- https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-...er-1401173170/
Zipp Carbon 808 - 470€
- 3000km
- MSRP: 1300€
- 28mm Tires
- https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-...08-1667535038/
EDCO Gesero Light - 520€
- 900km
- MSRP: 1400€
- 28mm Tires
- https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-...ar-1488908248/
Xentis Mark 1 - 570€
- 1000km
- MSRP: 2000€
- 28mm Tires
- https://hosteagle.club/iad/kaufen-un...lsbGhhYmVuLmF0
If you really want CF because you sense some real world advantage from them, for your riding, then do get them... Especially if the current wheels on the bike are holding you back.
But it's not a money-making 'investment'; it's purely for your own best felt use.
There are also good options for some very nice alloy wheels. For example, a set of HED Ardennes can now be bought (in the US) for $700 at full price - given some discount at some time, prolly a nice bit lower cost. They're Fast, Light, Highest Quality, durable, long lasting and really light... Ride incredibly well.
on the other hand...
IF you're buying with the idea of getting a higher 'resell' price on the bike - very likely it's not gonna happen...
Fact is if you can recoup 75% of the additional cost of new wheels - on a resell - then you're doing good....
People who buy 'Used' and especially if accepting to buy 'rim brake' old tech bikes, are doing so because they want a good deal, low cost.
A 2018 Emonda ALR is NOT a classic or vintage bike. It is a good bike, but not the latest.... SO if you add a cheap set of Carbon wheels to your 600 euro ALR, you'd still need to get 1000 euro to get close to break-even. Not a money maker, possibly a bigger money loser.
Ride On
Yuri
But it's not a money-making 'investment'; it's purely for your own best felt use.
There are also good options for some very nice alloy wheels. For example, a set of HED Ardennes can now be bought (in the US) for $700 at full price - given some discount at some time, prolly a nice bit lower cost. They're Fast, Light, Highest Quality, durable, long lasting and really light... Ride incredibly well.
on the other hand...
IF you're buying with the idea of getting a higher 'resell' price on the bike - very likely it's not gonna happen...
Fact is if you can recoup 75% of the additional cost of new wheels - on a resell - then you're doing good....
People who buy 'Used' and especially if accepting to buy 'rim brake' old tech bikes, are doing so because they want a good deal, low cost.
A 2018 Emonda ALR is NOT a classic or vintage bike. It is a good bike, but not the latest.... SO if you add a cheap set of Carbon wheels to your 600 euro ALR, you'd still need to get 1000 euro to get close to break-even. Not a money maker, possibly a bigger money loser.
Ride On
Yuri
Compared to other used Alu/Carbon bike listings in the 1.300 - 1.500€ range, which offer frames with similar weight, identical or similar groupsets but inferior wheelsets, I believe it could do alright. I should also mention that the bike itself looks brand new with almost no signs of use.
Last edited by 2muchroad; 04-25-24 at 04:37 AM.
04-25-24, 02:44 AM
#29
Newbie
Carbon rim brake wheels without the newer textured braking surface are bad in dry and horrible in wet.
I would get a new Chinese rim brake wheel set (light bicycle, Btlos, etc) with the textured braking surface. 21mm internal and 28mm external is probably as wide as you can go. 28mm tire. Get a 45 or 55 depth wheel. Bitex hubs. Probably $700 total.
the problem with rim brakes is you can’t run 32mm tires, which are faster and more comfortable than skinner tires.
I would get a new Chinese rim brake wheel set (light bicycle, Btlos, etc) with the textured braking surface. 21mm internal and 28mm external is probably as wide as you can go. 28mm tire. Get a 45 or 55 depth wheel. Bitex hubs. Probably $700 total.
the problem with rim brakes is you can’t run 32mm tires, which are faster and more comfortable than skinner tires.
04-25-24, 04:18 AM
#30
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Here's a CON for you (from someone who had rim brake CF wheels with the correct pads) - They don't stop in the rain. Heck, they don't stop that well in the dry.
How about a nice, lightweight set of inexpensive alloy wheels? Rouleur Alloy Rim Brake Wheelset – Boyd Cycling
How about a nice, lightweight set of inexpensive alloy wheels? Rouleur Alloy Rim Brake Wheelset – Boyd Cycling
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04-25-24, 04:37 AM
#31
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Hey that's awesome, thank you for sharing this. Does the 2016 ALR model use the same 300 Alpha Alu frame with similar measurments to the ALR 4 and ALR 5 models? I like those wheels and wonder if they could fit on my ALR 5. Current tires on mine are 28 - 226 / 700 x 28C
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04-25-24, 08:11 AM
#32
Full Member
Outdated in terms of braking performance and safety compared to disc brakes sure. Outdated in terms of what big brands names still produce rim brake carbon wheels unless you are going direct to consumer Chinese brands, 100%. However outdated in terms of use case and practicality, no and far from it
Rim brakes wouldn't be my first choice and carbon rim brakes IMO are a complete avoid, but they are far from dead I just think if you are still in that market you will need to be buying used wheels, Chinese wheels from places like Winspace, or places like Hunt which frankly are just Chinese wheels with a UK/US distributor
Rim brakes wouldn't be my first choice and carbon rim brakes IMO are a complete avoid, but they are far from dead I just think if you are still in that market you will need to be buying used wheels, Chinese wheels from places like Winspace, or places like Hunt which frankly are just Chinese wheels with a UK/US distributor
04-25-24, 09:47 AM
#33
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Geez, I'm a 240lbs Clyde who rides CF rim brakes in the rain down hills big enough to generate speeds close to 50mph and where modulation is a must, and have done it without problem. I haven't done rain-soaked, 30min descents where I'm bombing between switchbacks, but if that's the limitation, I'll take it, because that constitutes roughly 0% of my riding. For the rolling terrain of my home and the hillier areas I go to ride, the CF rim brakes are sufficient, even in the rain. My wheels, though, are the latest Winspace Hyper 2023, so older CF rims may not deliver the same kind of performance.
It probably takes some skill to get the best results from CF rim brake, too-- it seems simple, but some people really don't brake well and seem not to understand the physics of braking-- so from an ease-of-use perspective discs are better in that regard as well, being more tolerant and forgiving of poor technique.
The notion that CF rim brakes are unridable, though, is utterly ridiculous.
It probably takes some skill to get the best results from CF rim brake, too-- it seems simple, but some people really don't brake well and seem not to understand the physics of braking-- so from an ease-of-use perspective discs are better in that regard as well, being more tolerant and forgiving of poor technique.
The notion that CF rim brakes are unridable, though, is utterly ridiculous.
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04-25-24, 10:58 AM
#34
Junior Member
Yes, I've heard conflicting reports about reduced brake performance in rainy conditions, thanks for sharing.
Apparently, as already pointed by slow rollin, the pads need to be specifically rated for use with carbon. That "should" resolve the issue, however I myself cannot comment. Can you confirm?
I spent a lot of time finding the cheapest but lightest bike/frame possible, so I want to add the maximum amount of value/performance by getting CF wheels.
Apparently, as already pointed by slow rollin, the pads need to be specifically rated for use with carbon. That "should" resolve the issue, however I myself cannot comment. Can you confirm?
I spent a lot of time finding the cheapest but lightest bike/frame possible, so I want to add the maximum amount of value/performance by getting CF wheels.
04-25-24, 10:58 AM
#35
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Less expensive than HYPER wheels are the Routte models. The Winspace site shows their 45mm rim brake Routte wheels are in stock. The cyclisthub website includes a 10% discount code for Winspace wheels.
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04-25-24, 11:02 AM
#36
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Geez, I'm a 240lbs Clyde who rides CF rim brakes in the rain down hills big enough to generate speeds close to 50mph and where modulation is a must, and have done it without problem. I haven't done rain-soaked, 30min descents where I'm bombing between switchbacks, but if that's the limitation, I'll take it, because that constitutes roughly 0% of my riding. For the rolling terrain of my home and the hillier areas I go to ride, the CF rim brakes are sufficient, even in the rain. My wheels, though, are the latest Winspace Hyper 2023, so older CF rims may not deliver the same kind of performance.
It probably takes some skill to get the best results from CF rim brake, too-- it seems simple, but some people really don't brake well and seem not to understand the physics of braking-- so from an ease-of-use perspective discs are better in that regard as well, being more tolerant and forgiving of poor technique.
The notion that CF rim brakes are unridable, though, is utterly ridiculous.
It probably takes some skill to get the best results from CF rim brake, too-- it seems simple, but some people really don't brake well and seem not to understand the physics of braking-- so from an ease-of-use perspective discs are better in that regard as well, being more tolerant and forgiving of poor technique.
The notion that CF rim brakes are unridable, though, is utterly ridiculous.
Anyway, I'm most likely pulling the trigger on those Zipps for 470€.
To be perfectly honest, the added value and performance will be nice, but personally I just love how freaking awesome they look.
There is just something about that when a rider passes you with those sick looking CF wheels, I love it.
04-25-24, 12:03 PM
#37
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personally I'd go for those Rovals, much more versatile at that depth. the 1080's are deep enough to be cumbersome in some situations. what is the external width of the Rovals?
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04-25-24, 12:36 PM
#38
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Thread Starter
A lot of these sellers are practically giving away CF wheels that cost north of 2,000€ a year or two ago, for almost 60 - 70% off. That's kinda making me suspicious, tbh. Even if the outside of the wheels doesn't have any damage or tears, there is no real way for me to be certain with just a visual inspection. That's another downside with those and I don't wanna find out on a hill.
The Xentis seller just went down to 500€ now. So in total I'd spend 600 on the ALR 5 and 500 on wheels.
I have to do some research on those kind of wheels without spokes though. Anything in particular to be aware of?
04-25-24, 01:20 PM
#39
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Exactly.
04-25-24, 02:07 PM
#40
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The poor braking of cf rims with rim brakes is way overstated. I’ve descended the Gavia in the Snow and rain at race pace and live to tell the tail.
braking in the wet is the one place that discs really do have and advantage. But with good pads, well adjusted brakes, and good technique ( squeegy the brakes before you actually need to apply them) cf rim brakes will work fine.
That said, it’s pretty much academic at this point. The market has spoken and everything is going to disc. So I’m not rushing out to replace my 13lb Willier with a heavier bike with disc brakes, next time I buy a new road bike it will have discs.
Time marches on.
braking in the wet is the one place that discs really do have and advantage. But with good pads, well adjusted brakes, and good technique ( squeegy the brakes before you actually need to apply them) cf rim brakes will work fine.
That said, it’s pretty much academic at this point. The market has spoken and everything is going to disc. So I’m not rushing out to replace my 13lb Willier with a heavier bike with disc brakes, next time I buy a new road bike it will have discs.
Time marches on.
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04-25-24, 02:25 PM
#41
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That's the issue. 2muchroad appears to be looking at much older wheels.
But I've finally found two sets that I really like. Swiss Side and DT Swiss RRC, fits my frame's color scheme, 560€ (Side) and supposedly never touched the road. The RRCs have 2000km on them and go for 460€. I'm going over there tomorrow to check them out and make sure they'll fit my bike. Total weight is 1.3kg (Side) or 1.4kg (RRC), plus ALR 5 frame 2.4kg, plus 5.5kg rest. I'm extremely excited.
Gonna post pictures tomorrow.
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04-25-24, 02:45 PM
#42
Senior Member
By "obsolete," if you mean not sold much for high end use, then I would say yes. But if you mean don't work very well, then I would say no. My LightBicycle wheels have a special "graphene" (whatever that is) textured track and work just fine. However, I have not tried them in the wet, 'cause as a friend advised me, "being retired means never having to ride in the rain." I use the LB brake pads that I bought with the wheels.
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04-25-24, 03:10 PM
#43
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I am as impressed with those nice wheels as I am with the CYCLE plate. Nice. 
The blue accents look awesome, I want my wheels to fit the color scheme as well, but I can only go grey/black.
What frame is that btw?
The blue accents look awesome, I want my wheels to fit the color scheme as well, but I can only go grey/black.
What frame is that btw?
04-25-24, 05:06 PM
#44
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04-26-24, 01:34 AM
#46
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04-26-24, 01:48 AM
#47
Senior Member
$630 to $660 gets you Btlos wheels that are 35-40mm deep, have quality hubs and butted aero spokes, weigh 1300-1350g.
These are prices delivered to your door too.
And for $550, you can get 35mm deep handbuilt rim brake wheels that weigh 1440g.
It's actually pretty cool to see.
These are prices delivered to your door too.
And for $550, you can get 35mm deep handbuilt rim brake wheels that weigh 1440g.
It's actually pretty cool to see.
The last set of lightweight wheels I built was with Kinlin rims on some crazy light hubs from Poland, but that was years ago.
04-26-24, 01:52 AM
#48
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No not counterfeit. The seller told me this line is completely manufactured in China under a different brand and shipped over plain.
04-26-24, 02:36 AM
#49
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Sorry for all the questions, but I’ve never heard of this before, and my gut says it’s a bad, fishy deal for consumers, so I want to understand.
04-26-24, 02:53 AM
#50
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Thread Starter
I'm not an expert on this either, he just told me that the RRC line as a whole uses a manufacturing process and materials exclusively sourced from a major Chinese factory that supplies or re-distributes the exact same wheels under a different Chinese brand. So the wheels are the same, but Swiss allegedly just rebrands them. I didn't research this, but it sounds plausible tbh. Not saying that anything Chinese made is inherently bad quality though, that's kind of just a racist stereotype now.