Struggling with Hills
#76
Junior Member
Consider training legs with low rep range heavy as you can safely handle dead-lifts and squats to build strength and use hills to build endurance. Eat protein after each exercise session.
#77
Fossil
We are new riders and want advice as to weather we should consider lower gears or just a matter of not physically fit enough to do hills? I have counted the teeth on our bikes and hope to receive some advice.
George
Cassette 32 x 11. Rings. 48 x 36 x 26
Lois
Cassette 34 x 14 Rings 48 x 38 x 28
George
Cassette 32 x 11. Rings. 48 x 36 x 26
Lois
Cassette 34 x 14 Rings 48 x 38 x 28
#78
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So true!
The other thing is that maybe you aren’t always climbing. Don’t setup a bike with super low gearing because of the hills and find yourself unable to keep up on the flats.
The other thing is that maybe you aren’t always climbing. Don’t setup a bike with super low gearing because of the hills and find yourself unable to keep up on the flats.
#79
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How do people deal with false flats, by the way? I can generally handle short steep walls, but what kills me is extended drags at like a 2-3% grade. I'll happily bypass those for a short steep effort up an actual wall, but is there any kind of technique for longer slow drags like that?
#80
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We are new riders and want advice as to weather we should consider lower gears or just a matter of not physically fit enough to do hills? I have counted the teeth on our bikes and hope to receive some advice.
George
Cassette 32 x 11. Rings. 48 x 36 x 26
Lois
Cassette 34 x 14 Rings 48 x 38 x 28
George
Cassette 32 x 11. Rings. 48 x 36 x 26
Lois
Cassette 34 x 14 Rings 48 x 38 x 28
What works for you, mashing or spinning, is related to that. I suspect "spinners" may have a higher proportion of "fast twitch" cells, whereas "mashers" are the opposite. I suspect that those who ride at high cadences are toward the fast twitch end. If so, then if a rider feels more comfortable at a high cadence, then spinning might be a better choice. Note that this ignores the effect of aerobic conditioning (or lack of it.)
Also, take a look at the human leg. There is far more muscle mass in the back than in the front. There is a reason for this: when we walk or run, on the backstroke, the leg is moving the entire body forward, whereas bringing the leg forward for the next stride is only moving the mass of the leg. Mashing takes advantage of this.
Age and injury also play a role in which technique one uses. When I was young I was a "masher." Now, after serious injury to my spine, I wouldn't dare—mashing puts a lot of strain on the lower back.
Bottom line: just don't quit. Experiment with what works for you, both physically and mechanically. However, there is no "mechanical panacea," that will make hills easy (other than an electrical assist). Not knowing more about your specific situation, I'd try with technique and conditioning first, then look at lower gearing.
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#83
Just call me Carrie
My son is young and currently rides an 18" bike. We have a substantial hill on our road. He has ridden this hill, usually having to stop part way up to walk, pretty much every day for the past month. Last week, he finally made it up the hill, on his bike, without stopping. He just needed to practice and build muscle to be able to do it. (Because good golly are kids' bikes heavy.) There's no simple or quick fix for riding hills, you just need to practice.
#84
Junior Member
Your gear ratios sound fine for doing hills. In addition to doing more climbing on the bike to build fitness, doing strength training for your quadriceps and abdominal muscles will also make climbing hills easier. It's all about power to weight ratio.
#86
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We are new riders and want advice as to weather we should consider lower gears or just a matter of not physically fit enough to do hills? I have counted the teeth on our bikes and hope to receive some advice.
George
Cassette 32 x 11. Rings. 48 x 36 x 26
Lois
Cassette 34 x 14 Rings 48 x 38 x 28
George
Cassette 32 x 11. Rings. 48 x 36 x 26
Lois
Cassette 34 x 14 Rings 48 x 38 x 28
Someone wiser than me once said this.
Your gearing is very generous for hills. Just ride more up hills. You will get stronger over time.
#87
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How do people deal with false flats, by the way? I can generally handle short steep walls, but what kills me is extended drags at like a 2-3% grade. I'll happily bypass those for a short steep effort up an actual wall, but is there any kind of technique for longer slow drags like that?
#89
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I started riding last July at 68 years old. Gentle hills killed me and it was granny gear and 6 kilometers per hour. Had to stop and catch my breath at the top of hills. Maybe 3% grade and a quarter mile long. 1900 kilometers later, I climb those hills at 22 kilometer per hour without dropping speed. It's still hard, but it's amazing how much faster you become after a while, and how far you can go in a single ride.
If I may chime in I'm 61 and started riding last fall after a 30 or so year departure from the sport. I live in a fairly hilly area. When I first started I couldn't make it 1/4 of the way up the hill on my street, it is about a quarter mile long and over 10-12% grade, it's steep. I kept at it, failure , failure, failure then I started making some progress.
One day I made it half way up, the next try I want further then finally a week ago I told myself today is the day do or die time. I made it finally!!! Afterwards I thought it was luck but I have since repeated it twice and faster each time.
Now I have to all more hills and longer rides. My point being that I thought I couldn't do it but persistence has it's rewards and so I say keep at it.
My low gearing is 52-42-30, 12-26 So the OP has granny gears much lower than mine, I agree with others it is fitness that matters most.
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#90
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It is similar to "running efficiency" which helps tremendously in improving your sustainable running pace.
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You're not that special. You're not riding anywhere close to your VO2Max. There's a reason those who care about performance don't pedal at 60RPM even though it may be more efficient.
#93
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Maybe, but I'm going a bit faster for much longer at 70 rpm in a high gear than the fast pedalers I see on the streets and the paths. It's really stupid to assume leg muscles, hearts and lungs are standard issue, and that one method is going to be optimum for everyone.
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#94
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How is that remotely relevant? Froome passes everyone riding at a high cadence. Neither statement provides any information on the most effective cadence for an individual.
#95
Newbie
Cycling involves two types of muscles: slow twitch and fast twitch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myocyte#Fiber_types).
Fast twitch muscles develop quickly from exercise and are what you use for quick bursts of speed and what cyclists call "power".
Slow twitch muscles require a lot of blood supply and growing new blood vessels takes time. You need to be patient with climbing as you are literally growing new blood vessels to supply your fatigue-resistant muscle fibers.
I would give it a year of steady improvement myself. You will get there.
Or you could get lower gears and do like me: realize that your purpose in life is to give everyone else someone to pass.
Fast twitch muscles develop quickly from exercise and are what you use for quick bursts of speed and what cyclists call "power".
Slow twitch muscles require a lot of blood supply and growing new blood vessels takes time. You need to be patient with climbing as you are literally growing new blood vessels to supply your fatigue-resistant muscle fibers.
I would give it a year of steady improvement myself. You will get there.
Or you could get lower gears and do like me: realize that your purpose in life is to give everyone else someone to pass.
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#96
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Regardless, I assure you that I know far more about my capabilities and weaknesses than you do. I also know far better at what effort I'm riding, and how close it is to FTP max, than you do.
And I even know a few reasons why people might pedal at higher than 60 rpm. *I* ride at about 90, and running step rate at 180 even though it is less efficient - and it IS less efficient - for reasons which have nothing to do with FTP. And my easy pace will win local 5K's in my age group, so it's a little bit special.
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Which should suggest logically to you, that the assertion that "most people" (rather vague IMO) are at only 75% of their oxygen capacity at FTP is suspect.
Regardless, I assure you that I know far more about my capabilities and weaknesses than you do. I also know far better at what effort I'm riding, and how close it is to FTP max, than you do.
And I even know a few reasons why people might pedal at higher than 60 rpm. *I* ride at about 90, and running step rate at 180 even though it is less efficient - and it IS less efficient - for reasons which have nothing to do with FTP. And my easy pace will win local 5K's in my age group, so it's a little bit special.
Regardless, I assure you that I know far more about my capabilities and weaknesses than you do. I also know far better at what effort I'm riding, and how close it is to FTP max, than you do.
And I even know a few reasons why people might pedal at higher than 60 rpm. *I* ride at about 90, and running step rate at 180 even though it is less efficient - and it IS less efficient - for reasons which have nothing to do with FTP. And my easy pace will win local 5K's in my age group, so it's a little bit special.
Regarding O2 consumption of 75% that's just a ballpark. With plenty of training you might get that up to 80% of VO2Max but it's still a long way from VO2Max.
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And BTW if you're at 85% uptake capacity it absolutely helps to train that up to 90%. It's the holy grail of endurance training in fact, and to me it's ludicrous to claim that it's irrelevant because we use less than VO2max at FTP. A completely irrelevant point, and even less relevant if your hour performance is limited by getting winded. Less relevant still if you don't care at all about your hour performance but you like to ride fast. Or stronger up hills, like the topical question.
If you can gain that 5% by increasing your oxygen uptake, or by increasing your efficiency, it's still 5%.
One big reason you don't ride around - or race as someone inevitably brings up - at 60 rpm is after training at higher RPM the efficiency differences diminish. Training specificity. Regardless of one's maximal oxygen uptake we prefer the higher cadence because among other things we find velocity changes to be less fatiguing.
If you can gain that 5% by increasing your oxygen uptake, or by increasing your efficiency, it's still 5%.
One big reason you don't ride around - or race as someone inevitably brings up - at 60 rpm is after training at higher RPM the efficiency differences diminish. Training specificity. Regardless of one's maximal oxygen uptake we prefer the higher cadence because among other things we find velocity changes to be less fatiguing.
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I did some today, and yeah, that was pretty much it. Key was not succumbing to the psychological effect that you "should" be going faster on what looks like a flat (which made me attempt to up the pace previously)
#100
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I'm playing to my strengths. I don't fatigue putting out a lot of torque. Reducing torque and increasing repetitions is much less effective and more inefficient for me.