Cycle Tourist

I converted a perfectly nice vintage Trek triple crank bike to brifters. The shifts are nice and clean on the 7 speed freewheel. The only fly in the ointment is the shift from granny to the middle chainring. I have to double shift to the big ring and go down to the middle. All other shifts are perfect and once on the middle ring there's no chain rub. It's a 110mm bolt pattern diameter for all rings. The chain just grinds against the big ring which keeps it from going to the middle.
My thoughts are to get a bigger middle chainring to allow it to catch on the middle without hitting the big ring. The alternative is a decent triple with all the ramps and pins. I'm trying to resell and I want it to work properly without spending a lot of money.

Bill Kapaun

SunTour FDER with Shimano shifters?

Cycle Tourist

Yup. The alignment seems perfect once the chain is in the chainring and the shifting is fine from the big to the middle and back. The crank is a Maxy.

Bill Kapaun

And you expect the cable pull ratio to be correct between 2 different brands?
Don't.
SunTour was probably friction only.
Shimano "road" & "mountain" FDER's aren't even compatible with each other.

Darth Lefty 

...and it's a double not triple FD?

79pmooney

I've been using double FDs for triples for decades.

Have you considered simply buying a modern ramped middle chainring? 110 BCD is a very common standard. Finding a 7, 8 or 9 speed ring should be easy and I'd bet all would work just fine with no other changes. You could also lower the FD on the seatpost a tad. 2mm over the big chainring at the outer FD cage's closest point is all you need.

I'd try the above before spending any big bucks. It was said many years ago that FDs are like bumblebees, in theory they shouldn't fly. They work, but often creative tweaking is needed. In this case, the exact rotation in the seat tube might be the secret. I've also been known to remove the bushing at the bottom of the cage and replace it with fewer tiny washers to narrow the bottom of the cage. (You will get more cage rub which may not be livable for you with brifters.)

Ben

dsbrantjr

Another alternative would be to put back the original shifting mechanism. Never Fix A Running Piece.

HillRider

That crank and front derailleur were never expected to be used with indexed shifting and the fact it shifts well between the two larger chainrings is mostly good luck. As recommended above do one or more of the following: 1) switch to ramped/pinned chainrings (particularly the middle ring), 2) switch to a proper triple compatible front derailleur 3) switch to friction front shifting or 4) learn to live with dodgy shifting from the granny to the middle.

I have four bikes all with current Shimano triple cranks and matching front derailleurs. However, I've replaced the OEM 30T granny rings on two of them with a 26T chainrings and the granny to middle shift is a bit reluctant even with all else matching.

Mad Honk 

Cycle Tourist,
What I am looking at in your picture is a deraileur that is just a bit high on the rings of the crankset, if you can drop it down about 1/8th of an inch it will likely perform better. As many like Bill here advise correct settings of the parts will make them work better. JMHO, MH

tomtomtom123

Also swinging the tail of the FD cage a little more outward will help to press the chain against the middle chainring when shifting from the small.

you could try measuring the spacing center to center of the rings, which is typically 7.5 to 8mm. If the small ring is spaced then you could remove the spacers to bring it closer to the middle. Or add spacers to the middle ring to move it closer to the small. Din 988 washers of 0.1 or 0.2mm are $2-4 for a pack of 100.

You could also try adding a little bit more cable pull by a couple turns of the barrel adjuster to get the chain closer to the middle ring when upshifting from the then small, and then add a little more high limit screw to push the FD back to its original position when on the big ring.

79pmooney

"Or add spacers to the middle ring to move it closer to the small." The inner chainring and the middle are on the same bolt. So adding a washer outside the middle pushes both in the same distance. A narrower spacer between the inner and middle is what is needed.

Ben

Cycle Tourist

I've never had an issue before but you make a good point. I will try a fd or two before moving on. That certainly would be a easy fix. It doesn't seem to be a problem related to alignment but I'm willing to try something easy for a change.😒😁

JacobLee 

I love dumb ideas, so here’s one: Friction Brifters! Some cottage industry folks could probably cook something up.

Cycle Tourist

Yes I have a ramped and pinned crankset which may work but it's an awful chunk of steel. If that's the solution, I may shop around.
I've tried adjusting the FD so near it got jammed trying to get to the big ring and various other distances and angles. I haven't tried the washer trick but it seems more than a little reluctant to make that particular shift and gentle tweaking doesn't feel like the answer.

Cycle Tourist

Ha. I love it.. You are so right.

It seemed like a good choice... Maybe
retro and modern just don't work together. It's my first attempt at brifters and not a good start. I still think they're kinda neat.

Cycle Tourist

That actually gives me hope. The FD is a triple type and presumably worked just fine in friction mode. If all else fails I can always go back. There have been some outstanding ideas here that are worth pursuing.

79pmooney

The tweaking I'm talking about is just loosening the bolt to the seat tube clamp on the FD and rotating the whole derailleur. (Loosen the cable clamp completely and put a piece of tape on the seat tube touching the FR clamp to maintain the height.) Note where the end of the cage lies above the chain (in low gear) first.

Ben

dsbrantjr

Such a thing already exists: https://www.gevenalle.com/product/audax/

mpetry912 

Find a suitably sized middle ring with ramps and pins. It will be a mountain bike part.

That will make the shift out of the granny ring much easier. Your FD should be able to shift a ratio like that which you have installed.

I did a setup like that on my Alex Singer touring bike and what a different it made.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA USA

Eggman84

I was having a similar problem when I was attempting to use Brifters with an older Shimano FD-M900. To overcome the hesitancy to shift to teh next larger ring, I slightly bent the inside cage plate at the front of the derailleur slightly "outward", towards the outer cage plate. I probably closed the gap between the inner and outer plates by a 1/16". This did not effect trim, just pushed the chain onto the next larger ring better. Good luck.

JacobLee 

Oh yeah, I saw a pair of those on Craigslist recently. Anybody used them? They look a little bit like a shifter bolted to a brake lever; not really worthy of combining the two words. Maybe they're great?

dsbrantjr

They are exactly shifter bosses attached to a brake lever. Several folks on this forum use them and apparently like them. No ratchet/pawl mechanism to break or jam like brifters, and simple (and cheap) to repair so great reliability for touring. If you change to a different-speed cassette you just have to swap out the shifter part, or do nothing if you have the friction type.

JohnDThompson 

The SunTour Cyclone front derailleur works fine with a triple. But if the OP is trying to make it work with an indexed shifter, that may be the problem. The Cyclone pre-dates indexed shifting by many years, so if ther cable pull matches that of the shifter it would be sheer coincidence.

My advice would be either to use a friction shifter for the front derailleur or replace the front derailleur with a modern unit that matches the shift lever.

Bill Kapaun

As pointed out 6 days ago in posts 2 & 4. But.......

Road Fan

I like these suggestions!

I was thinking possibly he could tweak teh cage a bit (maybe you can tell I'm not a professional!). on the bottom edge of teh inner cage plate where the cage presses on the chain to effect an upshift to middle, bend that area to narrow the cage just 1/32 inch. This mimics the effect of some of the multiconyour cages now made by Campy and others to get good shifting on 50/34's and wide-range triples, in 10 and 11 speed systems. Why shouldn't it help with a 3x7?

But this is not a formulaic repair (i.e. get the correct part to match cable pull ratios, et cetera). This needs to be finessed and likely your nice FD will not be desirable except in situ as a tuned element of your excellent shifting system!