High performance townie build with 5 speed Sturmey Archer.
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High performance townie build with 5 speed Sturmey Archer.
I'm building this up for a friend, I'm totally in love with this bike even though it's nowhere close to being done!
Early 70's Raleigh Super Course frame and fork, not in very good shape cosmetically, but it is straight and the chrome socks cleaned up pretty well with some steel wool, the chrome on the fork crown is in fairly bad shape though. I plan on getting the frame and fork powder coated. I'm not sure on color yet, couple options so far, all tan and then paint the lugs dark brown, or get the original color matched as well as they can...
It's getting a 700c wheelset (not the one on it), a NOS Sturmey S5 5 speed hub from 1969, some velo orange bits and pieces, some FSA gimondi cranks, 35c pasela's, etc...
I will be adding some cable stop braze ons to get the 2 shifter cables and rear brake run in a clean manner, I have never messed with brazing before, but it seems pretty easy, just like soldering plumbing but at a notably higher temp!
I will need to crimp the chain stays a bit to get a little more tire clearance for the 35c tires, I found a neat way to modify a C clamp to do that in a controlled accurate manner.
Here is somewhat of a before pic,
Early 70's Raleigh Super Course frame and fork, not in very good shape cosmetically, but it is straight and the chrome socks cleaned up pretty well with some steel wool, the chrome on the fork crown is in fairly bad shape though. I plan on getting the frame and fork powder coated. I'm not sure on color yet, couple options so far, all tan and then paint the lugs dark brown, or get the original color matched as well as they can...
It's getting a 700c wheelset (not the one on it), a NOS Sturmey S5 5 speed hub from 1969, some velo orange bits and pieces, some FSA gimondi cranks, 35c pasela's, etc...
I will be adding some cable stop braze ons to get the 2 shifter cables and rear brake run in a clean manner, I have never messed with brazing before, but it seems pretty easy, just like soldering plumbing but at a notably higher temp!
I will need to crimp the chain stays a bit to get a little more tire clearance for the 35c tires, I found a neat way to modify a C clamp to do that in a controlled accurate manner.
Here is somewhat of a before pic,
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Cool! I ran my last SuperCourse as a 5-speed IGH. I preferred right side trigger on the bars and left side on the downtube.
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https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...er-set-up.html This is how I plan on setting up the 2 shifters.
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I am getting ready to put an S5 in another bike. I am considering shifting the left cable with a Sturmey trigger shifter, but wonder whether the shift performance and cable adjustment will be more finicky than the bar end. Any thoughts from your experience?
-Carl
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Just adjust the cable tension so that when you move the shifter to second you feel the travel of the bellcrank bottom out, then back the adjuster off just a tiny bit.
I've found that you do need to be applying some pressure to the pedals while pedalling for the shift to 1st and the shift to 5th to work reliably, if you are just spinning the cranks but not applying any pressure to the pedals shifting to 1 and 5 only happens about %60 of the time.
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Cool build! My current city bike is a similar setup, but with an old AW3 hub.
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Cool build! My current city bike is a similar setup, but with an old AW3 hub.
This was originally going to have a resto-mod Raleigh sports with an AW, but my buddy had more money to spend on it than I had guessed so it got a fair bit nicer with the super course frame and S5 hub. This will have a set of VO "tourist" bars on it instead of drop bars.
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That is a very nice build!
This was originally going to have a resto-mod Raleigh sports with an AW, but my buddy had more money to spend on it than I had guessed so it got a fair bit nicer with the super course frame and S5 hub. This will have a set of VO "tourist" bars on it instead of drop bars.
This was originally going to have a resto-mod Raleigh sports with an AW, but my buddy had more money to spend on it than I had guessed so it got a fair bit nicer with the super course frame and S5 hub. This will have a set of VO "tourist" bars on it instead of drop bars.
Actually, I can't recall if this is the 2X 3X Dyhohub. I built another with a 32h hub and this one may be 3X both sides. I think J Thomson suggested at the time using match stick to keep the spokes from exiting the keyholes
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Another S5 SC
My '71 SC had a 1950s alloy-shell FW (wide-range four-speed) for many years until I got tired of the 4-sp triggers wearing out. I went through maybe 4 or 5 of them, getting maybe 5 to 8 years of use before they started slipping out of Low. The 3-sp trigger is so much more reliable.
So a few years back, I converted my FW to be a 5-sp, which only requires replacing a couple of parts inside. The hub shell still says FW Alloy.
I use a regular trigger for the right, and a '40s or '50s British Cyclo top-tube shifter for the left. Not saying that's better than both shifters on the handlebar, I just thought it was a cute way to use that Cyclo toptube shifter.
As you can see I use a 26t sprocket, because I am old and slow. Be careful about gearing them too low though -- if you're strong, you can twist the axle. So, not really suitable for MTB use!
Hard to see, but the word after "CYCLO" is B'HAM, meaning Birmingham England. There was a French Cyclo also, not sure what the relationship between them was (if any).
I brazed a second pivot point onto the pulley clamp, to have pulleys on both sides. Not historically accurate, but sort of in keeping with the spirit.
The '50s Campagnolo decal is not very historically accurate either. It started out as a joke, because the only Campy thing on the bike was the decal. Since then the bike got Campy clamp-on pump pegs on the downtube, so it's not a "Campy-free zone".
Mark B in Seattle
So a few years back, I converted my FW to be a 5-sp, which only requires replacing a couple of parts inside. The hub shell still says FW Alloy.
I use a regular trigger for the right, and a '40s or '50s British Cyclo top-tube shifter for the left. Not saying that's better than both shifters on the handlebar, I just thought it was a cute way to use that Cyclo toptube shifter.
As you can see I use a 26t sprocket, because I am old and slow. Be careful about gearing them too low though -- if you're strong, you can twist the axle. So, not really suitable for MTB use!
Hard to see, but the word after "CYCLO" is B'HAM, meaning Birmingham England. There was a French Cyclo also, not sure what the relationship between them was (if any).
I brazed a second pivot point onto the pulley clamp, to have pulleys on both sides. Not historically accurate, but sort of in keeping with the spirit.
The '50s Campagnolo decal is not very historically accurate either. It started out as a joke, because the only Campy thing on the bike was the decal. Since then the bike got Campy clamp-on pump pegs on the downtube, so it's not a "Campy-free zone".
Mark B in Seattle
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I have a PDF of the owner's manual for the Sturmey S5, I just checked it out, it states you can use up to a 22 tooth cog, but it doesn't mention the front chain ring size, Depending on the year I think they were all 46 or 48 tooth, so this bike will be geared a bit lower than that, I was planning on 44/24, but maybe I'll deliver the bike with 44/22 and see how that works for him, but I'll have a 24 tooth sprocket if he really wants it geared lower.
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Looks like a fantastic townie you have there!
I have a PDF of the owner's manual for the Sturmey S5, I just checked it out, it states you can use up to a 22 tooth cog, but it doesn't mention the front chain ring size, Depending on the year I think they were all 46 or 48 tooth, so this bike will be geared a bit lower than that, I was planning on 44/24, but maybe I'll deliver the bike with 44/22 and see how that works for him, but I'll have a 24 tooth sprocket if he really wants it geared lower.
I have a PDF of the owner's manual for the Sturmey S5, I just checked it out, it states you can use up to a 22 tooth cog, but it doesn't mention the front chain ring size, Depending on the year I think they were all 46 or 48 tooth, so this bike will be geared a bit lower than that, I was planning on 44/24, but maybe I'll deliver the bike with 44/22 and see how that works for him, but I'll have a 24 tooth sprocket if he really wants it geared lower.
Replacement axles are getting harder to find though, and besides twisted axles there are a few other things that can go wrong under really hard pedaling. So you might remind him not to unleash his most awesome burst of power on it. It's intended more for normal non-sprinty riding. Depending on his weight and strength, "spirited" riding is probably OK -- he doesn't have to keep it down in the "sedate" range. But consider walking if the grade is super steep
-Mark
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%95+ of his time on a bike is transportation, so he's reasonably fit, but he's never on the bike to see just how fast he can make it go, he weighs about 180.
That is the perfect storm! Lots of power, heavy load, and very steep grade.
So the axle itself gets a twist in it? I've heard of axles rotating in the dropouts, and it makes sense that the axle could get twisted with enough torque, especially with an S5 where 1st and 5th put more torque on the axle than 1st and 3rd do on an AW.
I have another bike with an S5 that I take on some real rides, I've never hesitated to put everything I have into the cranks on that bike generally in 2 3 or 4, but I have it geared much taller, 53/24, it has 700c wheels and 25c tires, and I'm 160-165 pounds so I think I'm pretty safe there.
It seems this applies most with 1st and 5th gears, yea? Thats is when the torque on the axle is greatest? It seems with 3rd gear there is nothing to fail really as it is direct drive.
Thanks for the info!
The only time I twisted an axle was attacking a short intensely steep ramp, a board that I laid on one side of my porch stairs, to be able to ride up onto the porch. I had a full load of groceries aboard, so I had to really punch it. I was a decent Cat.3 sprinter in those days and pretty heavy for a racer (prolly 180 lb).
So the axle itself gets a twist in it? I've heard of axles rotating in the dropouts, and it makes sense that the axle could get twisted with enough torque, especially with an S5 where 1st and 5th put more torque on the axle than 1st and 3rd do on an AW.
Thanks for the info!
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This might sound snobbish but there's a yawning gulf between most any actual racer and a "reasonably fit" transpo rider. There are exceptions of course, like when Bob Roll was discovered just out for a ride and dropped the 7-Eleven team. But most non-racers have an eye-opening experience (or more like a slap in the face) in their first race -- they can't believe how much harder it is than a regular "hard ride". Well, maybe not so much the case anymore with Cat.6 (or whatever they're up to!) and one-day beginner's licenses, gran fondos etc. But in my day beginners were thrown in with some very fast people.
Exactly, the axle stays put in the dropouts but the center section with the sun gear twists relative to the ends. The twist mostly occurs where the axle is relieved (slotted) for the clutch key. A 3-sp axle is harder to twist because it only has one clutch key slot, to the right of the sun. 4- and 5-sp hubs have slots on both sides of the sun. Like you said, twisting never happens in Normal (2nd gear on a 3-sp, 3rd gear on a 5-sp.)
Yes I agree, with that ratio and your weight, I'd expect it to be safe.
I have another bike with an S5 that I take on some real rides, I've never hesitated to put everything I have into the cranks on that bike generally in 2 3 or 4, but I have it geared much taller, 53/24, it has 700c wheels and 25c tires, and I'm 160-165 pounds so I think I'm pretty safe there.
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This might sound snobbish but there's a yawning gulf between most any actual racer and a "reasonably fit" transpo rider. There are exceptions of course, like when Bob Roll was discovered just out for a ride and dropped the 7-Eleven team. But most non-racers have an eye-opening experience (or more like a slap in the face) in their first race -- they can't believe how much harder it is than a regular "hard ride". Well, maybe not so much the case anymore with Cat.6 (or whatever they're up to!) and one-day beginner's licenses, gran fondos etc. But in my day beginners were thrown in with some very fast people.
Exactly, the axle stays put in the dropouts but the center section with the sun gear twists relative to the ends. The twist mostly occurs where the axle is relieved (slotted) for the clutch key. A 3-sp axle is harder to twist because it only has one clutch key slot, to the right of the sun. 4- and 5-sp hubs have slots on both sides of the sun. Like you said, twisting never happens in Normal (2nd gear on a 3-sp, 3rd gear on a 5-sp.)
I think I'll deliver the bike with 44/22 gearing, if he really wants it lower I'll bring a 24 with me...
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Le Cyclo started off as a French company, but when the Great Depression caused high import duties in the UK, Cyclo and the importer started up production in Birmingham for the UK market. Eventually they diverged, with Le Cyclo faltering in France, and UK Cyclo producing their own Benelux derailers before going out of business.
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As the paint on this bike is in pretty bad shape it is going to get powder coated to be ready for city duty, so I removed all the factory braze-ons and added ones specific to this build. I went with some triple cable stops under the top tube for the rear brake and 2 shifter cables for the Sturmey S5 along with a cable stop on the bottom side of each seat stay to complete the shifter cable system and I also added some rack mount braze-ons on the seat stays as this bike will have a rack. Not a lot of standover height on this bike which is why I went with the bottom mount for the triple cable stops, I also don't think they look all that good on top of top tubes, but somehow I'm digging this setup with them on the bottom, the cable routing will actually be super nice for the shifter cables with it bottom mounted and will be quite nice for the rear brake to.
With the exception of MIG welding braze-ons to frame (yea I know its gross) this was my first time sticking braze-ons to a bike, it all went pretty well. I've sweated a lot of copper pipe, and this is similar, BUT steel does not conduct heat nearly as well as copper which I wasn't quite expecting, next time I'll make sure I have "good" access to all side of the braze-on with the torch before I start getting things hot.
A couple pics, rear triple cable stop and seat stay cable stops along with the seat stay rack mounts,
And an out of focus pic of the front cable stop,
Next up, crimping the chain stays for more tire clearance, from what I've read the brazing for the chain stay bridge will likely crack a bit when the stays get crimped so I'm expecting to spot sand blast that and rebraze it once the chain stays are crimped...
With the exception of MIG welding braze-ons to frame (yea I know its gross) this was my first time sticking braze-ons to a bike, it all went pretty well. I've sweated a lot of copper pipe, and this is similar, BUT steel does not conduct heat nearly as well as copper which I wasn't quite expecting, next time I'll make sure I have "good" access to all side of the braze-on with the torch before I start getting things hot.
A couple pics, rear triple cable stop and seat stay cable stops along with the seat stay rack mounts,
And an out of focus pic of the front cable stop,
Next up, crimping the chain stays for more tire clearance, from what I've read the brazing for the chain stay bridge will likely crack a bit when the stays get crimped so I'm expecting to spot sand blast that and rebraze it once the chain stays are crimped...
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I've totally changed my mind on powder coat color, I'm currently thinking of going with silver. My buddy who will be the owner of the bike once its done says he's fine with anything and wants me to choose, THIS IS A LOT OF PRESSURE!!!!
Thoughts on silver? I will have the powder coater leave the chrome socks on the fork and stays....
Thoughts on silver? I will have the powder coater leave the chrome socks on the fork and stays....
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Great!
I have a 1971 Super Course in the same color. I just switched to 700c wheels, and it gives me lots of clearance. I have 38mm tires in there now. I haven't installed fenders yet, but I think I can do it without crimping the stays.
I have a 1971 Super Course in the same color. I just switched to 700c wheels, and it gives me lots of clearance. I have 38mm tires in there now. I haven't installed fenders yet, but I think I can do it without crimping the stays.
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With the wheel centered in the dropouts I have reasonable space up front, a fully inflated 35c tires doesn't quite make it into the dropouts though, but once its in place its fine, I will likely trim just a little off the bottom front corners of the rear fender to eliminate that issue.
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Not on mine. I have two 1971 Super Courses (well, one bike and one F&F only). Neither one could fit a true 32 mm wide tire in back "comfortably" as-delivered. I indented one (the bare frame) and it's got lots of room now, see here: https://flic.kr/s/aHskyV5FPK
The bike that I ride is still waiting to get that treatment. It's got a tire that's about 30 mm wide and it's still less clearance than I'd like. Gotta get that bike in the stand one of these days for indenting, been back-burnered for a long time.
The one I ride did have 38 mm tires for a while -- when I converted it to 650b, in the late '70s I think (maybe early '80s). These frames are not really perfect candidates for 650b conversion because the brake reach is already so long. On mine, I used drum brakes F&R so the reach to the crown or brake bridge was irrelevant, but the huge clearances under the crown/bridge sure did look funny. Eventually I got tired of the drum brakes and converted it back to 27" with the original rims, where it stands today.
Mark B
The bike that I ride is still waiting to get that treatment. It's got a tire that's about 30 mm wide and it's still less clearance than I'd like. Gotta get that bike in the stand one of these days for indenting, been back-burnered for a long time.
The one I ride did have 38 mm tires for a while -- when I converted it to 650b, in the late '70s I think (maybe early '80s). These frames are not really perfect candidates for 650b conversion because the brake reach is already so long. On mine, I used drum brakes F&R so the reach to the crown or brake bridge was irrelevant, but the huge clearances under the crown/bridge sure did look funny. Eventually I got tired of the drum brakes and converted it back to 27" with the original rims, where it stands today.
Mark B
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Not on mine. I have two 1971 Super Courses (well, one bike and one F&F only). Neither one could fit a true 32 mm wide tire in back "comfortably" as-delivered. I indented one (the bare frame) and it's got lots of room now, see here: https://flic.kr/s/aHskyV5FPK
Maybe noglider has some skinnier 700c rims which make the 38c tires fit?
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I guess I better look again and take pictures.
bulgie, any chance you'd rent that indenter out? Or make more for a fee?
bulgie, any chance you'd rent that indenter out? Or make more for a fee?
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Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.