Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Sidewalk/sidepath riding... a different view.

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Sidewalk/sidepath riding... a different view.

Old 07-25-19, 12:33 PM
  #51  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,780
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1631 Post(s)
Liked 130 Times in 113 Posts
Besides, it's a DZSW!

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 07-25-19, 12:38 PM
  #52  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 5,211

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked 1,029 Times in 633 Posts
Originally Posted by genec View Post


Sidewalks, sidepaths, bike paths and a divided road.
Folks, take a look at this and tell me it doesn't work...
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0153...!3m1!1e3?hl=en
I took a closer look at that side path, and it's really interesting--there's some angling at the intersections apparently to put you in a better position to deal with the right hook issue. It's not quite like anything I see around here--when a path is placed like that one next to the road but many feet over, and doesn't angle you into the corner like that, I feel much less safe riding through the intersection than if I was into the lane on the road.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-25-19, 02:00 PM
  #53  
bbbean 
Senior Member
 
bbbean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,172

Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by genec View Post
...NO 100% sure way ...
<snippage>
I just want to share this and dispel the myth that one should "never ride on a sidewalk/sidepath."
Gosh, thanks for sharing. We're all newbies and are so grateful a wizened old sage like you would take the time to enlighten us. God knows none of us have any experience or data to base our decisions on.

FWIW - I'm considering that one "myth" that has yet to be dispelled
__________________

Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton

bbbean is offline  
Old 07-25-19, 02:33 PM
  #54  
genec
genec
Thread Starter
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,389

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7083 Post(s)
Liked 236 Times in 168 Posts
Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Riding on a genuine sidewalk as opposed to a paved mup can be quite dangerous o the bicyclist. That's because parked cars between the bicyclist and the traffic lane(s) can hide the bicyclist from the view of any motor vehicle driver turning into a driveway of any sort. Also, most drivers when looking for traffic on a sidewalk are looking for SLOW MOVING pedestrians not a faster moving bicyclist. Plus, a motorist glancing at the sidewalk looking for PEDESTRIANS often will not accurately judge a bicyclist's speed if the motorist even realizes it's a bicyclist and not a pedestrian. Then there's the problem that many sidewalk bicyclists encounter at intersections of streets where both the bicyclist and the motorists have very poor sight-lines to see each other. When riding on a sidewalk it's highly recommended that the bicyclist DISMOUNT and WALK across the intersection. In most areas if a bicyclist on a bicycle hits a pedestrian with the bicycle it's considered to be a vehicle/pedestrian collision and is supposed to be reported to police as such. Another thing to consider is that many pedestrians upon leaving a store or otherwise moving across a sidewalk is NOT expecting a bicycle to be on the sidewalk and therefore said pedestrian is quite likely to step right into the path of the bicyclist.

Cheers
Nice generalization. See any parked cars in the picture I posted? No. So that condition and rule doesn't apply everywhere.

Maybe in a downtown core (which I have mentioned as NOT a good place to ride sidewalks)... but this condition does not exist everywhere. So why act like it does?
genec is offline  
Old 07-25-19, 02:39 PM
  #55  
genec
genec
Thread Starter
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,389

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7083 Post(s)
Liked 236 Times in 168 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
The paths look great. I wouldn't ride on those sidewalks on a bet. Way too many driveways.
Sidepath on one side, sidewalks on the other.

Hey, got news for you... driveways are dangerous when you ride in the street too. Don't think taking a lane makes YOU more visible to drivers... they are not looking for you.

Sure, you might see a driver pulling out a touch better... if you detect the sound or exhaust while you also watch your mirror.
genec is offline  
Old 07-25-19, 02:47 PM
  #56  
genec
genec
Thread Starter
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,389

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7083 Post(s)
Liked 236 Times in 168 Posts
Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
Gosh, thanks for sharing. We're all newbies and are so grateful a wizened old sage like you would take the time to enlighten us. God knows none of us have any experience or data to base our decisions on.

FWIW - I'm considering that one "myth" that has yet to be dispelled
Yeah... Apparently there are quite a few folks here that believe the world everywhere looks like their neighborhood.

Oulo Finland has great bikepaths. Davis California has a decent path network.

Oregon has totally different rules for motorists, Seattle has an adult helmet law.

Yeah... the same dogmatic rules DO NOT APPLY everywhere. Period.
genec is offline  
Old 07-25-19, 02:49 PM
  #57  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 5,211

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked 1,029 Times in 633 Posts
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Sidepath on one side, sidewalks on the other.

Hey, got news for you... driveways are dangerous when you ride in the street too. Don't think taking a lane makes YOU more visible to drivers... they are not looking for you.

Sure, you might see a driver pulling out a touch better... if you detect the sound or exhaust while you also watch your mirror.


I got that--the paths look like something I'd ride on, the sidewalks definitely not. And I am absolutely safer from driveways in the streets as I can say from about 50 years of riding experience because I have more reaction time before the miscreant driver could actually hit me. It's usually not a I need to see them in a mirror situation, it's the backing out without looking right towards my side situation--I need time to swerve out of the way. Plus, there are frequently shrubs and the like on the side of driveways that end at the sidewalk.

I'm generally cruising around at 20+ mph, so sidewalks would generally be a really poor default choice for me. I could ride like that happily on that side path. Really very different.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-25-19, 02:55 PM
  #58  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 5,211

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked 1,029 Times in 633 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Besides, it's a DZSW!

-mr. bill
I probably shouldn't ask, but what's that?
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-25-19, 03:42 PM
  #59  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,434

Bikes: Miele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno SL, Miele MTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times in 80 Posts
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Nice generalization. See any parked cars in the picture I posted? No. So that condition and rule doesn't apply everywhere.

Maybe in a downtown core (which I have mentioned as NOT a good place to ride sidewalks)... but this condition does not exist everywhere. So why act like it does?
Because it DOES EXIST in a LOT of areas where people do ride their bicycles on the sidewalks. Some bicyclists are idiots and will ride heir bicycles at speed on sidewalks where here are pedestrians or where pedestrians are liable to exit a building. the bicyclist zooming along the sidewalk can NOT see thos people! There have been instances where a bicyclist riding on the sidewalk has struck and KILLED a pedestrian. There have been such cases in Toronto Canada where a bicyclist riding their bicycle on a sidewalk struck and killed someone.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...nd_killed.html

In British Columbia Canada.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle1315137/

Further reading.

https://nowtoronto.com/news/make-bik...n-the-suburbs/

Quote from that article: "Cycling on sidewalks can be less safe than riding on the road. Outside of the downtown, where getting doored is the biggest danger, sidewalk riding is the top cause of collisions with cars.

To understand why riding on sidewalks in the suburbs isn't as safe as it feels, you have to dig a bit deeper.

True, you won't get sideswiped or pushed into the curb by car traffic. So far so good until you meet cross-traffic.

This happens not just at intersections, but at people's private driveways, shopping malls and industrial spaces. There, bike riders meet turning vehicles, and the risk of collision is high because drivers are more likely to miss cyclists scooting along the sidewalk than those on the road.

Cyclists are fast faster than pedestrians and thus surprise drivers by "appearing out of nowhere." Drivers turning at intersections are often too busy sorting out whether it's safe to turn to catch cyclists whizzing into the road from the sidewalk.

In fact, cycling on the sidewalk is a contributing factor in 30 per cent of car-bike collisions in Toronto, when cyclists cross a roadway or motorists exit a laneway or driveway.

Toronto's own collision statistics show that the danger is higher at intersections, where nearly twice as many collisions occur (52.8 per cent) than in the stretches between intersections (31.9 per cent). On the other hand, though, the report notes that "collisions in which cyclists were riding on the roadway tended to result in slightly more severe injuries than those in which the cyclists were riding on the sidewalk or within the crosswalk."

Cheers
Miele Man is online now  
Old 07-25-19, 03:50 PM
  #60  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,434

Bikes: Miele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno SL, Miele MTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times in 80 Posts
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Sidepath on one side, sidewalks on the other.

Hey, got news for you... driveways are dangerous when you ride in the street too. Don't think taking a lane makes YOU more visible to drivers... they are not looking for you.

Sure, you might see a driver pulling out a touch better... if you detect the sound or exhaust while you also watch your mirror.
Sorry but that is a crock of El Toro Poo Poo! Taking the lane or riding away from the edge of the road most certainly makes you more visible to automobile drivers than does riding on a sidewalk where drivers are NOT LOOKING. At intersections drivers most often GLANCE at a sidewalk to see if anyone is approaching at WALKING speed. They are not looking for a faster moving bicyclist. To make it even worse, if a driver does see a bicyclist riding on the sidewalk and that bicyclist is approaching the intersect the BICYCLE IS OFTEN INVISIBLE due to its narrow frontal area and thus the driver thinks what he/she sees is a pedestrian and thus often turns or pulls out in front of that bicyclist. Even in an area where there are no obstructions between the sidewalk and the traffic lane the drivers are concentrating on what's in front of them on the road NOT what's on the sidewalk. To many drivers bicyclists who ride on the sidewalk and then onto the road simply appear to come out of nowhere!

Cheers
Miele Man is online now  
Old 07-25-19, 05:24 PM
  #61  
Bandera 
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,936
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times in 93 Posts
I'm still sticking with:

Sidewalks are for pedestrians, bicycles being vehicles belong in the roadway or on a MUP.

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh Internat'l. '77 Trek TX900 FG. '90 Vitus 979. '10 Merckx EMX3. '13 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline  
Likes For Bandera:
Old 07-25-19, 06:03 PM
  #62  
genec
genec
Thread Starter
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,389

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7083 Post(s)
Liked 236 Times in 168 Posts
Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Because it DOES EXIST in a LOT of areas where people do ride their bicycles on the sidewalks. Some bicyclists are idiots and will ride heir bicycles at speed on sidewalks where here are pedestrians or where pedestrians are liable to exit a building. the bicyclist zooming along the sidewalk can NOT see thos people! There have been instances where a bicyclist riding on the sidewalk has struck and KILLED a pedestrian. There have been such cases in Toronto Canada where a bicyclist riding their bicycle on a sidewalk struck and killed someone.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...nd_killed.html

In British Columbia Canada.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle1315137/

Further reading.

https://nowtoronto.com/news/make-bik...n-the-suburbs/

Quote from that article: "Cycling on sidewalks can be less safe than riding on the road. Outside of the downtown, where getting doored is the biggest danger, sidewalk riding is the top cause of collisions with cars.

To understand why riding on sidewalks in the suburbs isn't as safe as it feels, you have to dig a bit deeper.

True, you won't get sideswiped or pushed into the curb by car traffic. So far so good until you meet cross-traffic.

This happens not just at intersections, but at people's private driveways, shopping malls and industrial spaces. There, bike riders meet turning vehicles, and the risk of collision is high because drivers are more likely to miss cyclists scooting along the sidewalk than those on the road.

Cyclists are fast faster than pedestrians and thus surprise drivers by "appearing out of nowhere." Drivers turning at intersections are often too busy sorting out whether it's safe to turn to catch cyclists whizzing into the road from the sidewalk.

In fact, cycling on the sidewalk is a contributing factor in 30 per cent of car-bike collisions in Toronto, when cyclists cross a roadway or motorists exit a laneway or driveway.

Toronto's own collision statistics show that the danger is higher at intersections, where nearly twice as many collisions occur (52.8 per cent) than in the stretches between intersections (31.9 per cent). On the other hand, though, the report notes that "collisions in which cyclists were riding on the roadway tended to result in slightly more severe injuries than those in which the cyclists were riding on the sidewalk or within the crosswalk."

Cheers
Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Sorry but that is a crock of El Toro Poo Poo! Taking the lane or riding away from the edge of the road most certainly makes you more visible to automobile drivers than does riding on a sidewalk where drivers are NOT LOOKING. At intersections drivers most often GLANCE at a sidewalk to see if anyone is approaching at WALKING speed. They are not looking for a faster moving bicyclist. To make it even worse, if a driver does see a bicyclist riding on the sidewalk and that bicyclist is approaching the intersect the BICYCLE IS OFTEN INVISIBLE due to its narrow frontal area and thus the driver thinks what he/she sees is a pedestrian and thus often turns or pulls out in front of that bicyclist. Even in an area where there are no obstructions between the sidewalk and the traffic lane the drivers are concentrating on what's in front of them on the road NOT what's on the sidewalk. To many drivers bicyclists who ride on the sidewalk and then onto the road simply appear to come out of nowhere!

Cheers
Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
I'm still sticking with:

Sidewalks are for pedestrians, bicycles being vehicles belong in the roadway or on a MUP.

-Bandera
And the DOGMA continues unabated. Well thanks folks for proving the point. Keep riding.
genec is offline  
Old 07-25-19, 09:16 PM
  #63  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 5,211

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked 1,029 Times in 633 Posts
Am I wrong, or do the vast majority of these sidewalk riding guys come from Florida?

I think there was someone from Texas as well, but I think the general rule in the US is that grownups don't do much sidewalk riding.

I believe everyone who has ever studied this has shown you're statistically more likely to get hit riding on the sidewalk.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-25-19, 09:30 PM
  #64  
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 3,807
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 80 Times in 51 Posts
Must be down south. Up here in the panhandle we scarcely have sidewalks.
jon c. is offline  
Old 07-26-19, 01:43 AM
  #65  
KraneXL
 
KraneXL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La-la Land, CA
Posts: 3,590

Bikes: Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3341 Post(s)
Liked 200 Times in 160 Posts
Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Must be down south. Up here in the panhandle we scarcely have sidewalks.
Sounds like not much has changed in that city since I used to visit there as a kid.
KraneXL is offline  
Old 07-26-19, 02:06 AM
  #66  
Chris0516
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by genec View Post
OK, for so so long so many here have declared this as a No No. Well folks... I think your reasoning is full of poop. ("motorists won't look for you on the sidewalk") Got news for you... motorists won't look for you ANYWHERE. Oh they might see you out in traffic, in front of them, but there is NO guarantee, NO 100% sure way to know that you actually register as "something" to their feeble minds.
Spare me your Aristotle-like thinking. Riding on the sidewalk is dangerous. As is, riding on the road.

But, Riding on the sidewalk while crossing a business entrance/exit. Is a definite invitation to a pine box and six feet under. WHY, Because if a vehicle suddenly approaches. You only have the width of the sidewalk. To get out of the way. On the road, a travel lane can be as much as, three times the width of the sidewalk. So you have a lot more room to avoid a collision. Without even leaving the travel lane.
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 07-26-19, 03:10 AM
  #67  
genec
genec
Thread Starter
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,389

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7083 Post(s)
Liked 236 Times in 168 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Am I wrong, or do the vast majority of these sidewalk riding guys come from Florida?

I think there was someone from Texas as well, but I think the general rule in the US is that grownups don't do much sidewalk riding.

I believe everyone who has ever studied this has shown you're statistically more likely to get hit riding on the sidewalk.
Go back to the opening post and read about my lifelong cycling experience, then actually understand where I "came from."
genec is offline  
Old 07-26-19, 03:24 AM
  #68  
genec
genec
Thread Starter
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,389

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7083 Post(s)
Liked 236 Times in 168 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I probably shouldn't ask, but what's that?
He found the one car, parked off the road, near a sidepath, with a door open... thus a Door Zone Side Walk.

Of course since one is not busy staring at a mirror, it is quite easy to observe the car and door up ahead.

Of course if one were riding on the street, and encountered a Door Zone, and was flung out into the car or bus behind you... you'd be dead. In a DZSW you get flung onto an empty sidewalk or grass area.

Thanks mr bill for showing the other advantage of encountering the errant motorist on a sidepath vice busy street.
genec is offline  
Old 07-26-19, 03:29 AM
  #69  
genec
genec
Thread Starter
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,389

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7083 Post(s)
Liked 236 Times in 168 Posts
Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Sorry but that is a crock of El Toro Poo Poo! Taking the lane or riding away from the edge of the road most certainly makes you more visible to automobile drivers than does riding on a sidewalk where drivers are NOT LOOKING. At intersections drivers most often GLANCE at a sidewalk to see if anyone is approaching at WALKING speed. They are not looking for a faster moving bicyclist. To make it even worse, if a driver does see a bicyclist riding on the sidewalk and that bicyclist is approaching the intersect the BICYCLE IS OFTEN INVISIBLE due to its narrow frontal area and thus the driver thinks what he/she sees is a pedestrian and thus often turns or pulls out in front of that bicyclist. Even in an area where there are no obstructions between the sidewalk and the traffic lane the drivers are concentrating on what's in front of them on the road NOT what's on the sidewalk. To many drivers bicyclists who ride on the sidewalk and then onto the road simply appear to come out of nowhere!

Cheers
Take your poo poo right here... where would YOU ride.



https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0128...4!8i8192?hl=en
genec is offline  
Old 07-26-19, 04:53 AM
  #70  
genec
genec
Thread Starter
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,389

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7083 Post(s)
Liked 236 Times in 168 Posts
Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
Spare me your Aristotle-like thinking. Riding on the sidewalk is dangerous. As is, riding on the road.

But, Riding on the sidewalk while crossing a business entrance/exit. Is a definite invitation to a pine box and six feet under. WHY, Because if a vehicle suddenly approaches. You only have the width of the sidewalk. To get out of the way. On the road, a travel lane can be as much as, three times the width of the sidewalk. So you have a lot more room to avoid a collision. Without even leaving the travel lane.
Oh, so being a few feet further out will help you when "a vehicle suddenly approaches..." and you swerve out of the way right into that motorist passing you on the left... Yeah! So much safer!

Bottom line, cycling can be dangerous anywhere you are on two wheels. I fall about every time I go on rough off road trails. Not a car in sight. Ohhhh the danger. I have fallen on well built bike paths... hit a bunch of small, dark jewelry beads... they were like ball bearings. Any cyclist on the road has to maintain 360 degree situational awareness... what's happening in front of you, at the next intersection, at the left oncoming lane, the parked car next to you, and in front of you... any any approaching traffic behind you, in your lane AND the lane next to that lane.

HOWEVER... ride on a sidepath, and all the action is in front of you... until you come to an intersection... as you approach, you look around. Of course if there is a driveway every 100 feet, well you may as well be on the road. But if you have a mile or more of sidepath... that's a mile of not staring at a mirror. Even a 1/4 mile of not watching for overtaking traffic is relaxing.

I have done plenty of long trips on long isolated country roads (of course no sidepath, and often little shoulder) and the indication of approaching traffic was being able to hear those tires from a long way back... but between those rare vehicle approaches... there were wonderful long gaps of stress free cycling. Cycling that is like heaven. You just glide along care free... seriously "Just Riding Along." I get small similar JRA "shots" when riding on good paths and some local, available sidepaths. JRA. (sorry, city folks.)

Being vehicular, on the typical non-country road, requires constant focus and vigilance. It is a totally different feeling. Sure, you get good, you stay alert, and you live.
But it isn't JRA!

Truth be told, I'll take the long, quiet, isolated, country journey anytime. (spinning for hours, up and down hill and dale ) But you gotta get to the country to have such a ride.

Last edited by genec; 07-26-19 at 04:57 AM.
genec is offline  
Old 07-26-19, 05:01 AM
  #71  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 5,211

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked 1,029 Times in 633 Posts
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Go back to the opening post and read about my lifelong cycling experience, then actually understand where I "came from."
So according to that, you only started riding sidewalks in Florida. So?

I have news for you, I've been a bike commuter in several states including the California Bay Area, my riding has been in several regions of the country. Nowhere I've been is it normal for adults to do much riding on sidewalks. My experience riding is at least as extensive as yours, and I think most of the assertions you're making are really quite ridiculous. See below.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-26-19, 05:13 AM
  #72  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 5,211

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked 1,029 Times in 633 Posts
Originally Posted by genec View Post
He found the one car, parked off the road, near a sidepath, with a door open... thus a Door Zone Side Walk.

Of course since one is not busy staring at a mirror, it is quite easy to observe the car and door up ahead.

Of course if one were riding on the street, and encountered a Door Zone, and was flung out into the car or bus behind you... you'd be dead. In a DZSW you get flung onto an empty sidewalk or grass area.

Thanks mr bill for showing the other advantage of encountering the errant motorist on a sidepath vice busy street.
You keep lumping in paths with sidewalks, which is absurd, and is basically a strawman argument. I said above I wouldn't ride that sidewalk on a bet, and I would definitely be safer riding on that street. The path on the other side looks wonderful, and I would take that over the street, but that's a totally different calculation.

Here's another view of that sidewalk: https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0189...C8T-12J0uQ!2e0

If you ride on that sidewalk and feel safer than on the street, I don't think much of your ability to calculate probabilities.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-26-19, 05:17 AM
  #73  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 5,211

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked 1,029 Times in 633 Posts
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Take your poo poo right here... where would YOU ride.



https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0128...4!8i8192?hl=en
That's a side path, not just a sidewalk. You're arguing a strawman. No one here is arguing against path riding. At this point, you're just trolling.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 07-26-19, 06:00 AM
  #74  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,434

Bikes: Miele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno SL, Miele MTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times in 80 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
That's a side path, not just a sidewalk. You're arguing a strawman. No one here is arguing against path riding. At this point, you're just trolling.
That's an excellent road to ride on. It looks to me that one could ride on that road or on the side path. I would have no problem riding on that road. I OFTEN ride roads around here that do NOT have such a side path and where the speeds are also 55mph. Then again it's a side path way out in the country and not a sidewalk with pedestrians.

I agree that Generac is trolling now.

Cheers
Miele Man is online now  
Old 07-26-19, 06:25 AM
  #75  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,780
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1631 Post(s)
Liked 130 Times in 113 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
That's a side path, not just a sidewalk. You're arguing a strawman. No one here is arguing against path riding. At this point, you're just trolling.
That's a sidewalk, not a sidepath. Florida has minimum requirements for bicycle paths - that doesn't meet them, not even close.

(At least the sidewalk is not in the door zone.)

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.