Americans Shouldn’t Have to Drive . . .
#1
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Americans Shouldn’t Have to Drive . . .
Didn't know much of this. Thought it was a good read.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...=pocket-newtab
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...=pocket-newtab
#2
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I just saw another extremely annoying Buick commercial. They ain’t gonna make me feel bad because I ain’t got no Buick Too much wide open space in much of the US I can see the congested metro areas having better public transport but other places?
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An even better fit in P&R or Foo where most of the LCF threads, which are mostly political, sociological and economic ranting/fantasizing, belong anyway.
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 07-10-19 at 10:19 AM.
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Not about alternatives to autos per se and crossposting is a cardinal sin (leave that to baseball players).
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#6
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I didn't read anything in the article about eliminating the car. The article describes how the overly-pro car culture has squeezed out public transit and bicycle useage.
#8
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It's mostly a social issue, here. From families, friends, even employers - people want you to drive, and you're in some ways going against the grain by not doing so.
That said, i'd always loved driving, and loved cars. I was the driver. I was mad on cars as a kid, and was driving as soon as the law allowed (at 17yo). I modified my cars and three years ago my little pocket rocket was the best thing i'd ever built.
In a fraction of a second i broke 13 bones. But worse still that night, my love of driving was broken. I wanted no other car (i couldn't physically get in one for a few weeks). That was near 3yrs ago now and people ask me when i'm getting a car. Why get one? The streets are so moody. And occasionally angry. Yet the cycle-ways are great. But i'm on my own with this. I'm out-voted. And partially outcast.
My world isn't gonna properly open up until i drive again. And that's not the law, it's the people. Still, i'm happy as i am. I actually feel like a correct minority. And i won't drive until i can enjoy it.
That said, i'd always loved driving, and loved cars. I was the driver. I was mad on cars as a kid, and was driving as soon as the law allowed (at 17yo). I modified my cars and three years ago my little pocket rocket was the best thing i'd ever built.
In a fraction of a second i broke 13 bones. But worse still that night, my love of driving was broken. I wanted no other car (i couldn't physically get in one for a few weeks). That was near 3yrs ago now and people ask me when i'm getting a car. Why get one? The streets are so moody. And occasionally angry. Yet the cycle-ways are great. But i'm on my own with this. I'm out-voted. And partially outcast.
My world isn't gonna properly open up until i drive again. And that's not the law, it's the people. Still, i'm happy as i am. I actually feel like a correct minority. And i won't drive until i can enjoy it.
#9
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It's mostly a social issue, here. From families, friends, even employers - people want you to drive, and you're in some ways going against the grain by not doing so.
That said, i'd always loved driving, and loved cars. I was the driver. I was mad on cars as a kid, and was driving as soon as the law allowed (at 17yo). I modified my cars and three years ago my little pocket rocket was the best thing i'd ever built.
In a fraction of a second i broke 13 bones. But worse still that night, my love of driving was broken. I wanted no other car (i couldn't physically get in one for a few weeks). That was near 3yrs ago now and people ask me when i'm getting a car. Why get one? The streets are so moody. And occasionally angry. Yet the cycle-ways are great. But i'm on my own with this. I'm out-voted. And partially outcast.
My world isn't gonna properly open up until i drive again. And that's not the law, it's the people. Still, i'm happy as i am. I actually feel like a correct minority. And i won't drive until i can enjoy it.
That said, i'd always loved driving, and loved cars. I was the driver. I was mad on cars as a kid, and was driving as soon as the law allowed (at 17yo). I modified my cars and three years ago my little pocket rocket was the best thing i'd ever built.
In a fraction of a second i broke 13 bones. But worse still that night, my love of driving was broken. I wanted no other car (i couldn't physically get in one for a few weeks). That was near 3yrs ago now and people ask me when i'm getting a car. Why get one? The streets are so moody. And occasionally angry. Yet the cycle-ways are great. But i'm on my own with this. I'm out-voted. And partially outcast.
My world isn't gonna properly open up until i drive again. And that's not the law, it's the people. Still, i'm happy as i am. I actually feel like a correct minority. And i won't drive until i can enjoy it.
#10
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Definitely LCF fodder. People never stop to think about the millions, yes millions, of people for whom driving is simply not possible. Forget the ubiquitous legal issues, consider blindness ... not the fuzzy (swidt?) legal definition, no the real deal, no getting around that. Epilepsy ... amputations or paralysis ... when you CAN'T drive, you don't. And somehow you survive, or not. But on LCF 95% of posts are by people who had no intractable physical condition that made driving impossible. So eventually they found their way back to a car. So will you. It's fine. I'm not here to judge you. This isn't LCF.
A shift in this mentality could mean tremendous leaps forward for the entire country. Something as simple as prioritizing cycling, and making cars "go around" while bike paths go "straight through" would be a huge change. Of course something like this won't happen overnight, or even within my lifetime. It took Copenhagen over 20 years just to get to where they are today... after making the decision that the automobile was causing more issues than solving them.
Fortunately, both nations started rebuilding their infrastructure in the 1970s and 1980s.
Bicycles as transport are not culture specific. Like we’ve said, virtually every city in the world had respectable levels of bicycle traffic for decades. The modal share for bikes in Los Angeles a century ago? 20%
We know that not everyone is going to cycle everywhere all the time. The goal is simply well-designed bicycle infrastructure networks, smooth intermodality between modes of transport that include the bicycle and taking the bicycle seriously as transport once again. That's not so hard, is it?
Bicycles as transport are not culture specific. Like we’ve said, virtually every city in the world had respectable levels of bicycle traffic for decades. The modal share for bikes in Los Angeles a century ago? 20%
We know that not everyone is going to cycle everywhere all the time. The goal is simply well-designed bicycle infrastructure networks, smooth intermodality between modes of transport that include the bicycle and taking the bicycle seriously as transport once again. That's not so hard, is it?
Copenhagenize.com - Bicycle Urbanism by Design: Bicycle Culture Mythbusting - The Complete Guide
This isn't about living car free, it IS about living bicycle ENABLED.
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While all the above is true, the fact, as pointed out in the OP story is that America makes it difficult NOT to drive. America puts driving and cars first. Everything else (including walking) is secondary or worse. In some areas, there flat out are no sidewalks, or public transportation. In many areas, public transportation is a pain in the butt to use.
A shift in this mentality could mean tremendous leaps forward for the entire country. Something as simple as prioritizing cycling, and making cars "go around" while bike paths go "straight through" would be a huge change. Of course something like this won't happen overnight, or even within my lifetime. It took Copenhagen over 20 years just to get to where they are today... after making the decision that the automobile was causing more issues than solving them.
Check out this link discussing the myths of "why cycling won't work where I live."
Copenhagenize.com - Bicycle Urbanism by Design: Bicycle Culture Mythbusting - The Complete Guide
This isn't about living car free, it IS about living bicycle ENABLED.
A shift in this mentality could mean tremendous leaps forward for the entire country. Something as simple as prioritizing cycling, and making cars "go around" while bike paths go "straight through" would be a huge change. Of course something like this won't happen overnight, or even within my lifetime. It took Copenhagen over 20 years just to get to where they are today... after making the decision that the automobile was causing more issues than solving them.
Check out this link discussing the myths of "why cycling won't work where I live."
Copenhagenize.com - Bicycle Urbanism by Design: Bicycle Culture Mythbusting - The Complete Guide
This isn't about living car free, it IS about living bicycle ENABLED.
#12
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Oh GAWD, you went right to one of the very myths the site tries to debunk... "cultural influences..."
Go to the site... and really read it.
Copenhagenize.com - Bicycle Urbanism by Design: Bicycle Culture Mythbusting - The Complete Guide
Go to the site... and really read it.
Copenhagenize.com - Bicycle Urbanism by Design: Bicycle Culture Mythbusting - The Complete Guide
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Oh GAWD, you went right to one of the very myths the site tries to debunk... "cultural influences..."
Go to the site... and really read it.
Copenhagenize.com - Bicycle Urbanism by Design: Bicycle Culture Mythbusting - The Complete Guide
Go to the site... and really read it.
Copenhagenize.com - Bicycle Urbanism by Design: Bicycle Culture Mythbusting - The Complete Guide
#14
Senior Member
I was referring to the article, not the LCF forum. There wasn't anything in the article the OP posted suggesting anything about living car free.
So you tell me, or the rest of us, where in the article does it mention or suggest living car free?
So you tell me, or the rest of us, where in the article does it mention or suggest living car free?
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What is the point of writing an article like that if not to make the reader THINK about the LCF connection? OMG they're coming for my car! Could you read a lengthy article about healthy eating of natural foods complete with recipes and menu suggestions and not see the indictment of the Fast Food culture of Lower and Middle Class America? Only if explicitly stated by the author(s)? At which point they are labeled and ridiculed as crackpots by 95% of readers and the status quo continues on. I called it right, as usual, that article is wasted here. Since it does not explicity threaten your (over)use of automobiles for most of your transportation needs it is harmless entertainment.
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#16
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What is the point of writing an article like that if not to make the reader THINK about the LCF connection? OMG they're coming for my car! Could you read a lengthy article about healthy eating of natural foods complete with recipes and menu suggestions and not see the indictment of the Fast Food culture of Lower and Middle Class America? Only if explicitly stated by the author(s)? At which point they are labeled and ridiculed as crackpots by 95% of readers and the status quo continues on. I called it right, as usual, that article is wasted here. Since it does not explicity threaten your (over)use of automobiles for most of your transportation needs it is harmless entertainment.
#17
Non omnino gravis
It's an article without point, unless viewed as an editorial on history. SoCal is the home of urban sprawl-- everything is miles away-- and while that may indeed be due to the actions of persons and institutions pushing for the automobile... so what? It happened 70+ years ago. Regardless of who's responsible, I live 7 miles from my favorite Chinese food place, and my wife's office is 28 miles away. There are no other options because here, there have never been any options.
And I've absolutely no desire whatsoever to live where a car isn't necessary-- I've spent my entire life in some kind of suburban environment, and could not stand living in a "proper city." As such, I guess I don't demonize cars. I love cycling-- but sometimes I need to bring home a dishwasher or 60 linear feet of cedar fencing. Or just pick up Chinese food in a reasonable amount of time.
And I've absolutely no desire whatsoever to live where a car isn't necessary-- I've spent my entire life in some kind of suburban environment, and could not stand living in a "proper city." As such, I guess I don't demonize cars. I love cycling-- but sometimes I need to bring home a dishwasher or 60 linear feet of cedar fencing. Or just pick up Chinese food in a reasonable amount of time.
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#18
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It's an article without point, unless viewed as an editorial on history. SoCal is the home of urban sprawl-- everything is miles away-- and while that may indeed be due to the actions of persons and institutions pushing for the automobile... so what? It happened 70+ years ago. Regardless of who's responsible, I live 7 miles from my favorite Chinese food place, and my wife's office is 28 miles away. There are no other options because here, there have never been any options.
And I've absolutely no desire whatsoever to live where a car isn't necessary-- I've spent my entire life in some kind of suburban environment, and could not stand living in a "proper city." As such, I guess I don't demonize cars. I love cycling-- but sometimes I need to bring home a dishwasher or 60 linear feet of cedar fencing. Or just pick up Chinese food in a reasonable amount of time.
And I've absolutely no desire whatsoever to live where a car isn't necessary-- I've spent my entire life in some kind of suburban environment, and could not stand living in a "proper city." As such, I guess I don't demonize cars. I love cycling-- but sometimes I need to bring home a dishwasher or 60 linear feet of cedar fencing. Or just pick up Chinese food in a reasonable amount of time.
The article isn't about living car free... it is about laws unfairly encouraging driving over over cycling.
The article is about "enabing cycling," by not eliminating the choice, by design, of the use of bicycles in a community, or by the use of prohibitive laws.
Last edited by genec; 07-16-19 at 06:50 AM.
#19
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You are entirely missing the point.
The article isn't about living car free... it is about laws unfairly encouraging driving over over cycling.
The article is about "enabing cycling," by not eliminating the choice, by design, of the use of bicycles in a community, or by the use of prohibitive laws.
The article isn't about living car free... it is about laws unfairly encouraging driving over over cycling.
The article is about "enabing cycling," by not eliminating the choice, by design, of the use of bicycles in a community, or by the use of prohibitive laws.
The automobile has been let loose upon society and society as a whole loves the automobile. Hard to go back to before that happened.
The future of the privately owned automobile will be different than it is now, but we got a long way to go before the common man won't be able own one anymore.
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saw a guy getting loaded onto a stretcher this morning on the highway, when I drove up to the accident. he looked mostly OK. backed up the highway for miles. all the cars, including mine, had only one person in it, the driver. so stupid cuz we were all going the same direction. there's got to be a better way
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#21
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Which is why I generously allowed that it might legitimately fit in both LCF and A&S. But, if it really must go in only one then it should be LCF. A&S needs to stop or at least reduce the amount of impotent handwringing about the state of car culture in America and how it negatively impacts the interests and safety of cyclists and begin to equip cyclists with real skills tools to take to the road with. An accident is, more often than not, a failure of two parties. The open and shut 100% guilt of the motorist vehicular manslaughter incidents are rare. In most interactions if the cyclist had not panicked or used evasive action of had had more situational awareness (nod to earbud users) going into the accident the outcome might have been different. Do I need to remind us that the cyclist usually has more to lose? I am not for A&S to be nothing more than a newswire, bringing an endless stream of horror stories about the many faults of drivers and American road culture.
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saw a guy getting loaded onto a stretcher this morning on the highway, when I drove up to the accident. he looked mostly OK. backed up the highway for miles. all the cars, including mine, had only one person in it, the driver. so stupid cuz we were all going the same direction. there's got to be a better way
#23
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There is seldom anything posted on the LCF list about the subject of living car free as most people would interpret the term "living car free." Certainly nothing like the volume of P&R ranting and fantasizing and associated P&R discussions, and non P&R blog-like posts about what a poster or two did last weekend, last month or on their last vacation.
The content of the article referenced in the OP was right up the alley for discussion on BF's LCF list as it currently exists.
#24
Non omnino gravis
You are entirely missing the point.
The article isn't about living car free... it is about laws unfairly encouraging driving over over cycling.
The article is about "enabing cycling," by not eliminating the choice, by design, of the use of bicycles in a community, or by the use of prohibitive laws.
The article isn't about living car free... it is about laws unfairly encouraging driving over over cycling.
The article is about "enabing cycling," by not eliminating the choice, by design, of the use of bicycles in a community, or by the use of prohibitive laws.
#25
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saw a guy getting loaded onto a stretcher this morning on the highway, when I drove up to the accident. he looked mostly OK. backed up the highway for miles. all the cars, including mine, had only one person in it, the driver. so stupid cuz we were all going the same direction. there's got to be a better way
Last edited by rumrunn6; 07-17-19 at 07:43 AM.