12strings

Here it is.

I moved around a bit, from relaxed to aggressive, in both hood and drop positions.
Let me know if anything jumps out at you, then I'll tell you what I was thinking, but I don't want to bias anyone ahead of time.
-Thanks!

https://youtu.be/m_h-qIlF6Gc

Cyclist75354986865

I'm far from an expert, but your saddle looks a high. It looks like you are rocking quite a bit, having to pedal toe down, and still reaching at the bottom of the pedal stroke.

AnthonyG

Well I don't think you saddle is too high. Your position looks OK to me although I'm a little concerned that the bike isn't level on the trainer. It may be an optical allusion but it looks like the front is high. Make sure its dead flat.

Anthony

12strings

Thanks, It is nigh impossible to tell if the bike is level on that trainer, and it wasn't quite in the same part of the uneven garage floor as I normally have it for winter workouts...but I can tell you that I had the saddle, set to level with the bike on the ground, then tried to adjust the trainer so the saddle showed level again, so it's pretty close...the bike has a sloping top tube, so there's no other obvious visual Que.

As to saddle, I do sometimes notice myself bouncing at very high cadence, but part of this video is me simply moving around on the saddle to adjust position.

I naturally pedal toes down, no matter where the saddle is, so I tend to want it high to get comfortable...the saddle here is set basically to the "unclippped heel touching the pedal at bottom stroke" method.

AnthonyG

Try measuring from the ground to the axle front and rear. See if there is a difference.

Anthony

Wildwood 

Looks pretty good to me as well.
The position of the trainer is strange and may affect my perspective.
When you went to the drops the back was almost flat but the body position did not seem very low. If more aero is something you might desire (without sacrificing power), the question is: Are you comfortable with your chin closer to the stem? I find that lifting my butt 1mm off the saddle and sliding ever so slightly rearward, allows me to extend the arms and maintain the center of gravity while getting a lower profile. You are young - try it.
Also, rounded shoulders catch less wind. Not sure about your saddle, so I won't go into the whole rotate-your-hips-forward-for-a lower-position.

Last time I was fitted, the guy asked me about how long my typical ride was and I told him = maybe 2 hours, longer on weekends. He made me ride a trainer for 30 minutes, before he came back to check my fit. How you tire on the bike is an important aspect of fitting as well as the static measurements and initial look at position.

edit: How long have you been riding a roadie?

12strings

Thanks for all the tips, a few things:

1. I did check the angle of the trainer, and the front is about a half-inch higher than the back...So out on the road my front would be a bit lower. The trainer was given free to me by someone who never used it, and is so old and somewhat broken that it is no longer height adjustable...so this will have to do for now...I figure there's no need to get low and aero in a garage anyway.

2. I will sometime hover over the saddle on fast descents, but I will try to think of sliding back a bit when on the drops and see what happens. I do sometimes try to get more aero, but usually not on the trainer...the bars could definitely go lower, and I think my flexibility could handle it (gymnastics background), though I suspect having 2+ inches of steerer above the stem would look silly...and I've even considered raising the saddle a bit more, I feel like I might be able to get more power that way.

3. I have been "seriouslY" riding a road bike since this past September when I purchased the bike you see here...before that I rode a Schwinn Varsity 1200 walmart Flat-bar road bike for 2 years commuting and riding some group rides with the roadies. Before that I had a 30 year old Motobecane road bike for about 5 years that I commuted on occasionally, but I have no idea what size it was or how it fit...it only had one brake and the rear derrailer didn't work. I rode it more in the drops mostly because that's the only position that those old brakes really worked effectively.

FYI, I'm 5'9" 162 lbs, 35 years old, and the bike is a size 54 Jamis Quest Comp (Steel frame, Carbon fork).

Carbonfiberboy 

Saddle too high, reach too short. Your position should look like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z04uoO7U_SA
Here's another look at elite positions and pedaling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSXyg6dn0Kk
Notice subtle differences in fit and pedaling, but they're all doing it "right." You betcha.

ESTrainSmart

You're bouncing because the muscles of the ankle either aren't functioning properly (motor control) or lacks range of motion. The ankle is responsible for smoothing out the pedal stroke. At the top of the pedal stroke, you need to have dorsiflexion which I can see at 0:12 seconds, but as your cadence increases, you lose dorsiflexion. The lack of dorsiflexion is the reason why you start to rock side to side as soon as you get lower @ 0:32-0:33 seconds. Since the ankle isn't dorsiflexing adequately, it's causing your hips to flex excessively and throw your thigh to your trunk. The problem may be due to motor control deficits where the muscles of the ankle aren't coordinating properly or the gastrocnemius and/ or soleus are tight. If these corrective exercises don't help, a shorter crank (likely just 2.5mm) will allow you to get lower without the discomfort.

Unless you have some degree of scoliosis, the saddle needs to be tilted nose down because it's currently causing you to compensate at the mid thoracic spine. From 0:05-0:06 seconds just before you put your weight on the saddle, you can see the kyphosis migrate inferiorly down the spine. Since the saddle is level, it's forcing your pelvis to tilt posteriorly and lose neutral, but with the nose down you'll be able to anteriorly tilt enough to maintain safe alignment of the spine.

If you don't have scoliosis, working on thoracic extension on a foam roller will be hugely beneficial to the health of your spine, and it will prevent your rib cage from restricting your breathing. However, if you correct the kyphosis, you'll need a longer stem because you'll gain over an inch of height at the trunk.

Do you mind if I use your video for my website? I'd like to use it for demonstrative purposes showing how ankle mobility affects crank length.

-------
Vincent Vergara
Personal Trainer/ Coach
B.S. Kinesiology (Indiana University Bloomington)
www.EatSleepTrainSmart.com
EatSleepTrainSmart@gmail.com

12strings

Thanks, I do know I have that hump in my back that other people don't have...I don't know what it is, and have never had it checked out. Perhaps those roller exercises will help.

I have also recently begun to think that shorter cranks might help me. I tend to pedal toes down naturally, and have for years, I don't know why.

I have also wondered about needing a longer stem.

Also, are you saying you disagree with the standard advice for a level saddle?

I have no objections to using my video.

ESTrainSmart

Thanks, I appreciate it!

The hump or kyphosis at the back is usually a result of how you've held your posture over the course of your lifetime. There's actually a lot of people that have it to some degree because good posture isn't common these days, especially with cell phones, tablets and laptops. It's important to check your spine for scoliosis before doing the thoracic extension exercises because it can do more harm than good in that case.

From what I could see in the video, the reason your heel isn't dropping is due to your quads dominating the pedal stroke which is causing the muscles of the ankle to not relax through the return phase. This is also a habitual thing that you've probably been doing naturally. Next time you ride, try relaxing the foot and entire leg, and try to produce the power from the hips (glutes), and only apply pressure downwards- don't pull back or up. If it's a motor control issue, this should get the ankle to move correctly and allow you to get lower with no rocking, but it will take a lot of focus. A shorter crank will definitely improve your technique, but I would still work on the things I described to prevent overuse injuries.

The level saddle advice is appropriate for conditions where seated aerodynamics aren't necessary (very long climbs) or for people with scoliosis. For all other conditions, the nose should be down just enough to allow the pelvis to tilt forward and achieve a more neutral spine. Too much nose down and sliding will occur or you'll feel too much pressure on the hands, especially if the core isn't strong. If you experience either of these symptoms, consider a noseless saddle. The only tradeoff is you'll experience is greater pressure on the ischial tuberosity (sit bones).

I would wait on the stem because you have the potential to be an inch or two taller as your posture improves. This would effectively improve your reach.


-------
Vincent Vergara
Personal Trainer/ Coach
B.S. Kinesiology (Indiana University Bloomington)
www.EatSleepTrainSmart.com
EatSleepTrainSmart@gmail.com

Wildwood 

I will agree with the above about saddle & tilt.
However some new saddles may work to allow you to rotate hips forward without forward tilt.
I have found this one helps me. Not sure yet if it is my 'distance' saddle.

Evolution
definitely not for people who want that classic vintage look and value 'look' highly.

woodcraft

What is the point of showing time trial riders as an example for road bike position?

Carbonfiberboy 

If you have to ask the question, you haven't looked at them with sufficient care. There's a lot more to look at than what kind of bars are being used.

woodcraft

I see riders on specialized bikes with no saddle setback & their weight resting on their elbows.

Do you ride like that? Is the OP interested in that?

I see this repeatedly (time trial position used as example for road bike fit) so more of a general gripe on my part.

Carbonfiberboy 

The OP might want to observe knee angle at bottom of stroke, knee to torso gap at top of stroke, foot motion during the stroke, elbow-knee gap in aero position, upper arm-torso angle, saddle angle, and many other things. This stuff is all the same no matter your saddle position in relation to BB or frame shape. You may not care about any of that, but I find those things to be the base elements for on-bike performance.

woodcraft

The slo-mo is cool,

but I think most road cyclists have multiple areas to work on

(flexibility, base conditioning, strength, aerobic capacity, equipment)

before getting to maximum aerodynamic position.

Carbonfiberboy 

^ No kidding.