agmetal

Hey guys, I've recently built up an upright-ish 3-speed on an old Panasonic 10-speed frame. I generally like the way it's set up, but the seat tube angle is a bit more slack than on my Volpe, and I've been feeling like I'm not getting as much power into the pedals as I'd like. I generally like the setup I have in terms of the saddle to bar relationship...the bars are a little below the saddle, approximately the same amount of drop as I have on the Volpe, but the reach is significantly shorter and I'm using the VO Milano bars instead of drop bars.

I'm wondering if it would make sense to get a longer stem, and move the saddle forward on the seatpost by the same amount (which may involve going to a zero-offset seatpost). I'm hoping to get more power for hills and riding against the wind, get some weight off the saddle (without also putting too much on my hands), and maybe get more typical road bike handling characteristics, while maintaining the basic riding position I have. Thoughts?

Igualmente

While you may be adapted to the forward position of your saddle, I don't think that having your saddle forward on a road bike generally delivers more power. It may just be what feels right to you and what your muscles have adapted to. Saddle setbacks of 6 to 10 cm are pretty common on road bikes.

A couple of articles on setback are:

How to Fit a Bicycle (see heading "The Fore-Aft Saddle Position")

and

SEAT SET BACK: for road bikes » Bike Fit » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website

Carbonfiberboy 

Thoughts . . . On the Panasonic, it looks like your saddle is all the way back on its rails. Try moving it forward. And leveling it. Unless there's something odd about the scaling of these photos, it looks like you should also raise it.

'Bent riders can pedal quite well from a nearly prone position. The difference is clipless pedals. Suggest you put them, or at least rattraps with toe clips, on the Panasonic. Those changes will make a huge difference.

agmetal

All the way back, yes, but it's a function of the stem/bar combination. Any farther forward with the saddle, and the whole thing feels very cramped. The distance from the nose of the saddle to the point where my thumb and index finger wrap around the bars is pretty much the same as if I was riding on the tops on the Bianchi. It's set with the nose up because that's how it's comfortable for the upright upper body position. If anything, the saddle is actually slightly higher on the Panasonic than on the Volpe, but your perspective might be thrown by the sloping top tube on the Volpe.

No foot retention for me, ever. Period.

agmetal

Oh, worth mentioning - I took some measurements yesterday...the nose of the saddle on the Panasonic is about 3" behind the center of the BB, while on the Volpe the nose of the saddle is almost directly above the center of the BB. As mentioned in the previous post, the saddle to bar relationship on the Panasonic is very similar to riding on the tops of the bars on the Volpe, except that the whole saddle/bar position is shifted back by about 3".

fietsbob

I set up My Trekking Bars higher than the saddle , on my Bike . You can do as you wish.


Saddle behind the BB axis is Setback .. that takes weight off my hands, riding..

roadbuzz

The low point of your saddle on the P'sonic is almost over your rear brake, vs. the almost level saddle on the Volpe. Raising the rear of the saddle would put you forward, but also increase weight on your hands, and just plain might not be comfortable. You might try a different, flatter, saddle and see what that does to things.

79pmooney

Those two bikes look very different. The Bianchi has a steep seattube, shallwer head tube and a seatpost with very little offfset. This makes for a seat that is forward relative to the bottom bracket. The Panasonic has a very laid back seatyube and an seatpost with normal setback, placing the seat much further back. You could get a seatpost with no setback like a Thomas, then push the seat rails forward and I bet you could get a position close to the Bianchi. I"ll guess however that if you do that, yo may end up with a bike that handles less than ideally because it was clearly designed for a more laidback riding style.

(I am just looking at the photos. Seeing the bikes set up square to the camera and with the background vertical would tell me more. So take this wit a grain of salt.)

Ben

79pmooney

I haven't heard of setback being the distance behind the BB. I've heard it in terms of the distance the center of the seat clamp is behind the seatpost centerline. NOt saying you are wrong. You just moight find some puzzled looks from folks who have heard the definition I've heard.

Ben

jyl

I think it would be difficult to duplicate the Bianchi position on the Panasonic. You'd have a reversed seatpost, super long stem . . . weird.

You could get partway there with a zero offset seatpost and bars that don't put your hands so far back, like moustache bars.

fietsbob

you have now.

Reference: the classic Coaching Book [English translation from what was probably 1st in Italian]

C.O.N.I 'Cycling', circa 1972 for Rome Olympiad .. My copy is Paper, here is the PDF Sand Creek Sports - Mountain bike racing in Colorado

page 128, 2nd Pg in chapter 5.


you could say seat post choice options is part of setback as a total .
If the frame's seat tube angle is steeper, that may be what you must find.
if it's slacker then the choices may be to reduce the seat post and saddle rail adjustment options

agmetal

This isn't the best picture, but it's the most current. Origin 8 ProFit zero offset seatpost + Nitto Dynamic II 120mm stem got me most of what I was after.

dwmckee

good luck

ThermionicScott 

Certainly looks better now. How long are your cranks on the Panasonic, @agmetal? They look sort of long relative to the frame size, so if you switched to shorter ones, your feet wouldn't have to extend as far forward when applying power.

Of course, that would involve a whole package of adjustments afterward: raise saddle slightly to maintain proper leg extension, moving the saddle forward a tiny bit to maintain foot position. Raise the handlebars slightly to go along with saddle and keep weight off the hands, perhaps use a slightly longer stem or longer-reach bars to compensate for that adjustment. Since you're already using a long stem, you may think about switching to a mustache-type bar for more reach.

Just for what it may be worth...

- Scott

agmetal

170mm, same as on the Volpe

agmetal

After a couple weeks of riding without touching the saddle or bar positions/angles, I've finally decided I'm happy with the way I have the fit dialed in on this bike, and took some better pics yesterday.

LesterOfPuppets

Looks much better. Hand position with old stem seemed way too close to headtube for me. Hands closer to front axle is usually better.

agmetal

Yeah, it feels pretty close to riding on the tops of my Volpe's drop bars, too, which is pretty much what I was after.