sdn40

Been thinking a bit about a touring build. Watching some Youtube stuff etc. I already know the disclaimer is that there are a million ways to set a bike up, but was hoping for a head start from you guys. Mainly just the bare bones basics so I don't build a dinasaur. Yea, my head is swimming a bit.

Are the Blackburn racks still considered a go to ? I ask because of the amount of clip in, made to fit, brand specific stuff that is out there. Are the days of Blackburn and bungee cords on the way out ? I ask the same of Panniers with regard to being brand specific. Also, with the advances in weight saving gear, it seems like the cantilever seatpost bags are becoming very popular. Collapsable and roll-up seems to be a theme and maybe racks in general are on their way out ?

For example, I can pick up this Ibera rack dirt cheap. Does it lock me in to certain things and lock me out of others ? Will the same bag that clips into this rack all nice and tidy also clip into a Blackburn ? Saving $20 on a rack up front could pale in comparison to what it may cost in the long run is a fear. Being a gadget guy, "clip ins" and "made fors" are cool and missing the boat due to lack of foresight and buying 50 bungee cords is not cool.



I hope you get the idea of my worries and hoping you guys can give me the ABC's of this stuff so I have a better idea.

seedsbelize 

My touring rack is steel with some kind of coating on it. I fasten it to the stays with p clips. If you can get that rack for cheap, do it.

Dfrost 

Your questions seem straightforward, but there’s lots more information needed for good answers. Have you looked at the Touring Forum on Bike Forums?

What sort of touring do you realistically expect to do? Camping or hotels?

What bike are you using? Does it have eyelets at the dropouts, and any rack attachment points near the brake bridge? What’s your budget?

That rack you included looks very stout and consequently heavy? Do you need something like that?

Blackburn racks were quite good, but being aluminum, they don’t have any infinite life. There are several brands that use steel tubing. I’m a fan of the Tubus brand, and like their racks made from stainless tube - no paint or powder coat to get scratched off, although they’re more expensive.

Cantilever seatpost racks aren’t all that solid in their mounting (they can swivel around the seat post) and farther heavy, as well as often being way above the rear wheel. They are often surprisingly heavy, compared to a rack that attaches at dropout eyelets.

Two brands of panniers that are most frequently seen are Ortlieb and Arkel. There are lots of others but those are well-proven.

Here s a great source for racks and bags of all sorts (as well as just about anything else bike-related):

Racks:
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...?category=3536

Panniers:
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...?category=1807

Is there a used bike parts emporium near you in Green Bay? That would be a much cheaper way to get started. And there must be plenty of bike shops in that area. Check to see if any of them are touring oriented.

clubman 

If you want to do serious loaded touring, try not to burden yourself with unnecessary weight and that includes some of these overbuilt racks. Buy the best frame you can afford with lowrider braze-ons, 3 water bottles and lots of clearance. I'd go with new Blackburn style racks in a second. Waterproof bags are great but standard dernier bags are just fine if you keep everything in secondary waterproof bags inside, which I like to do. Helps you to keep organized. I'm a big fan of the Cannondale bags from the 90's. Their bikes too.

mississippimud

Since you have posted in the C&V section are you looking to stay true to the old school ways ? If so,vintage Bruce Gordon,Merz,DiNucci,Jim Blackburn etc. are the racks to look for . Good Luck !

John E

I use a period-correct aluminum Pletscher mousetrap rack with Rudy Project panniers on the Peugeot. I don't do heavy touring, but routinely carry 20 to 30 lbs of groceries.

The Golden Boy 

Look at the rack on that one!

That looks like one of the really really early "jim blackburn" racks.

Salamandrine 

The cantilevered bike packing bags were originally developed for trail riding. As you might imagine, wide and low bags can sometimes get snagged if you plan to ride off road on single track. I understand they are also used for ultra light touring and credit card touring. The advantage there is better aerodynamics.

I used Blackburn racks BITD and they worked fine. Nowadays if there's a standard I'd say it's Tubus followed by Topeak. Whatever you pick, they are generally interchangeable. Panniers simply clip to the rails, using various methods. I use Nitto myself. Simple and strong, and unlike Tubus they don't look like a cheap 70's lawn chair. I am willing to pay a bit more for aesthetics.

Bungee cords, yeah, still needed, but there are some better quality ones around now. I put my sleeping bag and tent in a dry bag and bungee that to the top of the rack.

The ultra hipsters will carry everything else in front bags on a low trail bike. I'm not that cool quite yet, so I carry stuff in normal panniers and a big handlebar bag. I pack very light, like 20lbs.

Many ways to go about this. Use what works for you.

sdn40

Thanks for all the info thus far guys. I did post in the touring forum as well.
I come at this from a camping background and interestingly enough, in a day where 20 pound Coleman camp stoves are being replaced by thumb sized $8 stoves, I find myself looking to build a bike to replace what I built 10 years ago from a pile of junk purchased from Rawhide Boys Ranch. It was a mouse infested mess with a caved in rear panel and front panel. I told them I wouldn't buy it unless they removed what was left of the canvas. I think it's even C&V. I probably shouldn't say replace as I don't think I could ever sell it. An awesomely rewarding project after I got passed the "what the hell have I gotten myself into" when it was all tore apart. IIRC it was a 1985 Coleman Columbia when I started. Gone is anything beige, cream, or woodgrain, inside and out. I didn't care to preserve that history. I do have the 20 pound stove and old lanterns. Camping wouldn't be the same without the hiss and smell of white gas burning in some way, shape, or form.

jonwvara 

I have a nice Jandd handlebar bag that I stopped using a few years ago, once I realized that I was using a two-pound bag and holder to carry five pounds of stuff. After trying a bunch of things, I've finally pared it down to a pair of medium-sized front panniers (old Cannondales that belonged to my dad) and a Carradice Camper saddlebag--no rear rack or panniers. I can't seem to get my load below 30 pounds for a camping tour, but that setup carries it fine. All the touring bikes I've had seem to handle a lot better with front panniers only, once you get the side-to-side weight distribution dialed in.

Bad Lag

sdn40, have you ever gone bike camping, even once?

If not, I suggest you ask around and see if you can borrow a rear rack, some panniers, and handlebar bag, and a small, light weight tent. Heck, even if the gear is a bit heavier than desired, borrow it anyway and go. Just go.

Go out for a weekend or a few days more. Try it out.

Really, IMO, there is no other way and certainly no better way to figure it all out before spending (potentially) big bucks.

If your mental model of camping centers on 40 pound stoves and trailers, you will find that trip to be an epiphany.

sdn40

Not yet no, but I have a pretty good idea. For me, the two versions of camping would be the same - yet different - if that makes any sense. My main issue is learning about compatibilities, but I'm slowly learning and in no rush. I want to keep my options as open as possible.

gugie 

I didn't know I was a hipster. I thought trial and error led me to this conclusion.

Bad Lag

So, borrow some gear and go. Buy nothing,... or as little as possible. That keeps your options as open as they can be.

You're going to make mistakes. Accept that now. Perhaps, you might think of them as changes of mind. They were right at the time but your needs have evolved.

The key, IMO, is to go; to actually do it. You will learn so much and know it at a visceral level. You can come here and tell us what worked for you. That is so much better than us telling you what worked for us, for our needs, for our desires.

Bad Lag

There's another aspect to asking for advice without personal experience/knowledge to filter the responses.

We live in a VERY different climate than you. What I need to tour Pacific Coast Highway or what I take for a run up and over Tioga Pass will likely be very different than what you need in Wisconsin.

Also, have you answered the question about credit card touring versus full-up camping?

One more question - is this a solo outing or with a group? Put another way, do you have to carry it all?

sdn40

All good points - and I do have a decent handle on a lot of it, and do expect a learning curve. My most major concern was bag vs rack compatibilites, but have since learned it's not as big a deal as I thought. My personality would be to want clip ins and perfect matches, clean and as void as possible of 20 bungee cords holding everything together. I think I was making a mountain out of a mole hill. As much versatility out of the gate is what I am going to shoot for. I don't forsee anything longer than a weekend at this point, so I don't need to overthink things too much.

SamSpade1941 

An interesting topic and one that has been on my mind. I’ve been pondering doing away with panniers and racks on my LHT in favor of buying bike-packing bags that can be used on any of my bikes ... it’s not that I don’t see the utility of my racks but when the bike is unloaded , it’s just that previously mentioned versatility. I get that a tourist can’t carry as much gear bike packing however as someone else said I never carry 100 pounds of gear to start with . When I use panniers they are usually loaded pretty lightly ..

sdn40

I like the idea of frame bags, but I gotta think no matter how careful you are, they gotta be hell on the paint

Bad Lag

Tent, sleeping bag, stove, pots, food, water, warm clothing,... it adds up fast.

Tent and sleeping bag are two places where money can reduce your load AND make your camping experience happier.

Super light, compact tents are out there but they tend to be expensive. Ditto for sleeping bags.

I mention these two items in particular because of where I've been and the adverse consequences I've suffered from having inappropriate gear. It is funny, though, those experiences are also some of my most vivid memories and make me laugh every time I think about them, like right now. LOLOLOL

Bad Lag

I did a little scouting around at REI. I'm not endorsing that brand or their prices, just using their info to make a comparison, to illustrate my point, in the post above.

They sell 1 person tents for $200. They weigh 4 pounds.

They also sell a tent meant for bicycle camping that is only 2 pounds but costs $400.

The bike camping tent is also physically smaller when stowed.

The price differential may be a lot but it is very difficult to shed a full two pounds from any other single item, or even a couple of items.

There are similar cost-weight trade-offs for sleeping bag, possibly the only other single item on which you could save two pounds.

BTW, a two pound reduction is noticeable.

Bad Lag

I did another quick comparison of sleeping bags, again using only REI info.

$100 gets you a bag that's 2 1/2lb. This is synthetic fill.

$330 gets a bag that's 1 1/2 lb, saving a pound. This is water -resistant down fill.

SamSpade1941 

I use the green patrol bag from the USGI modular sleeping system it is good down to around 40 f you can get down a bit colder assuming you use a bivvy and sleep fully clothed , you can buy the patrol bag online for for less than $30. I purchased the whole sleep system for less than $100 bivy included . I am not saying it works as good as a $300 to $400 bag but I'd wager it works as good as that $100 bag.

sdn40

And there are pros and cons to synthetic vs down
And don't get me started on tents. Luckily, there are a million ways to make sure you get something that fits your needs. And tents on the used market is where huge value can be had. Don't forget about condensation issues !
You can get a mini stove for $8 on Amazon and a stainless steel cup from Walmart for $5. Add some dehydrated meals from Mountain House or Packit Gourmet and you're off to a good start

Salamandrine 

I have several tents, including a quite expensive ultralight. Some high tech tents just frankly suck. I'd rather not name names, but they can be badly thought out. You might as well use a bivy bag. Before spending a fortune on something that looks impressive at REI, I'd recommend a relatively cheap Eureka Spitfire, or the similar Sierra Designs tent (whatever it is called today). Two hoops, a couple stakes, not much to go wrong. Price is much less, weight will be near comparable, and a stiff breeze won't collapse it. There are also some other options from smaller boutique makers if you want to spend a bit more.

Also, you don't always need a tent. If there's no mosquitos or scorpions or tarantulas around to bite you, no need. There's no law that says you can't sleep out cowboy style.

For sleeping bags, I think it's worth it to spend some money. I currently have a Western Mountaineering. My only regret is that I didn't get one earlier. Totally worth it. Don't get overzealous on temp rating. No point in a -20 bag if you are using it for fall and summer camping. It will just be annoying.

nlerner

A few weeks ago, I went on a 3-day bike camping trip with @-holiday76 and @ColonelJLloyd. They're experienced hammock campers, so I borrowed most of the gear I needed (hammock, fly, top and bottom quilt). It's all strapped to the front rack of my bike:



And the setup:



I enjoyed the experience a lot and look forward to doing it again. At this point in my life, sleeping on the ground just 'ain't cutting it (and I've done lots of backpacking, tent camping). The lightweight hammock alternative makes a lot of sense.