wolfchild

I've read about the benefits of eating beets and drinking beetroot juice which I can believe....But eating potassium nitrate by itself to increase performance must be some kind of a joke. This stuff is used as food preservative and for making gunpowder and fireworks.

Carbonfiberboy 

Ah, well looking at it from only the health perspective . . .

Cal/Mag softgels with D3 333mg/167mg/200IU 1 X day
D3 2000 IU 1 X
Multi vitamin, no iron 1 X
Fish Oil 1g 4 X
CoQ-10 100mg 2 X
Alpha Lipoic Acid 250mg 2 X
Iron 18mg 3 X week
Glucosamine Sulfate/MSM 550mg/300mg 1 X
Lutein/Zeaxanthin 25mg/5mg 1 X
B-12 dots 500mg 1 X

Carbonfiberboy 

Well, let's see . . . Potassium is a much-desired electrolyte among athletes. Nitrate is found in beets among other vegetables. If you'd read the studies I've posted, you'd have seen that KNO3 has been well-studied as an athletic performance supplement. The problem with beets or beet juice or beet juice concentrate is that the amount of nitrate contained is unknown without assaying each individual batch, plus these supplements also contain other chemicals which would be confounding elements in an RCT. KNO3 is the preferred study chemical in analyzing the effect of nitrate on athletic performance. We know for sure that it's 61% NO3 by weight. The fact that NaCl is a frequently used food preservative doesn't seem to prevent us from using it quite indiscriminately. Oh . . . and of course KNO3 (saltpeter) is always added to food in the Army and in boys' schools to prevent sexual behavior. Not.

wolfchild

I much rather prefer to eat spinach, arugula and beets ( 3 vegetables highest in nitrites) than take nitrite supplements. I am just not convinced that taking highly concentrated nitrite supplements is healthy...I was looking at the cost of beetroot juice at one of the supplement stores in my city and the price was $ 25 dollars for a 945 ml bottle, that's outrageous !!.

Carbonfiberboy 

Beets, you have to eat 1/2 kilo before a ride. Like every day or every other day? I don't think so. OTOH, 500g of KNO3 costs $27 and takes me months to go through it. You either want the benefit or you don't. Yeah, the cost of beetroot supplements is understandable but not something I'm willing to shell out for. Cost/benefit analysis. Yeah, I like spinach and beets too, but I like them in quantities which are not even close to clinical.

jsk

I'm curious what specifically you're taking. Maybe I'm using the wrong search terms, but I can't find anything on Amazon that looks like it would be a good idea to ingest. The closest thing was "The Science Company, NC-8794, Potassium Nitrate, (Saltpeter), Food Grade, 100g", but even that has the following warning on the label: "May be harmful if swallowed. Causes skin irritation".

OBoile

The research is quite clear on the performance enhancing effects of creatine (although whether it benefits longer duration cycling is another matter). Taking Baking Soda, if you can stomach it will improve performance. https://www.bicycling.com/training/f...at-muscle-burn

Lots of things enhance performance and many (I'd say most) are not banned. A healthy diet will enhance performance. Things aren't banned just because they improve performance. They also have to either be a health risk or against the spirit of the competition.

TimothyH

You are the Millenstein Man of supplements!

By the way, I wasn't asking about your parents sex drive. Sorry about that. By virility I meant strength and vigor in old age. My friend's father builds retaining walls and lays sod in his 80's. That sort of thing.


-Tim-

donhaller 

I take a multivit and B12 but my most obvious and working supplement is MAGNESIUM. I take a pill form in the evening before bed and if I develop cramps from riding or extra workout, a liquid ionic form of Magnesium knocks out the cramps within a minute or two of taking it. Amazing stuff. I have tapered it down quite a bit and I feel like my cramps are now only occasional where they used to be any night after a long hard ride.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes, Science Company is my vendor through Amazon. Of couse it could be harmful if swallowed. I think ingesting a large quantity would not be good for you at all. I don't know about the skin irritation. I don't use it on my skin. It's a major component of gunpowder because it's a strong oxidizer (NO3, right?). Personally, I wouldn't take over 1/4 t. of it per day, less is better. Also, for sure don't snort it. OTOH, I'm not sure about eating 2 kilos of beets, either. . . No, I'm sure. Don't do it.

Carbonfiberboy 

Redden wir an Millenstein Landrath von Stuttgart or a Millenstein wheelset, or? Ah, an easy mistake to make. It has seemed to me that they're the same thing.

I refer you to my tag line.

TimothyH

LoL

canklecat

Baking soda sounds like a great way to enhance sprints between porta-potties. It combines the best of both increased physical capacity and mental motivation to reach the next toilet ASAP.

Sounds like an amusing event for popular sprint zones along our local MUP. I can think of a few segments where porta-potties are 1-7 minutes apart, just enough to test whether white cycling shorts should ever be a thing.

EricT80

Yeah, consuming mushrooms which have been shown to improve endurance certainly is a placebo.


Let me guess: Caffeine is a placebo too.

rubiksoval

That doesn't follow.

rubiksoval

Sort of an important matter on a cycling forum.

Baking soda? What is this, the 80s? Good luck with that one.

A healthy diet is not an ergogenic aid that improves performance. Keep with the context of the thread.

Things that actually do improve performance are banned. There's dozens of pages listing them.

OBoile

Track cycling is still cycling last time I checked. Creatine helps with many events there. Yet it isn't banned.

Baking soda still improves performance today. Still not banned. You're statement is incorrect regardless of what decade you want to pretend it is.

A great many supplements are derived from food. Where do you draw the line? If whey protein improves recovery (and thus, improves performance) will WADA ban milk, or just the powder? How will a test know the difference?

I don't think you understand the criteria that WADA uses when determining if a substance should be legal or not.
https://www.usada.org/substances/prohibited-list/

Performance enhancers are fine as long as they are safe and don't violate the spirit of the sport.

rubiksoval

Both baking soda and creatine aren't used because of the adverse physical side effects.

I draw the line at something that's an actual performance-enhancing ergogenic aid, as just about anyone else being intellectually honest does.

Oh, I understand it just fine. And I understand the difference between performance-enhancing and not.

Which is sort of the point all along. Anything worth taking for performance-enhancement outside of 2-3 substances isn't going to be legal to take. Everything else, eh.

OBoile

Sigh, you're clearly not interested in an honest discussion. If you spent like 10 seconds actually doing research on this topic, you'd see that there are more than "2-3".
https://www.bicycling.com/training/l...eloton/slide/3

rubiksoval

Sigh, bicycling.com.

Good call on the three that have already been discussed. And the two that aren't used because they give you the **** or make you bloat up like the michelin man.

Some protein and minerals to round out the mix. Except they're not ergogenic at all.

You're not saying anything new here. And that certainly wouldn't constitute the "lots" that you claimed.

Seattle Forrest

What do you mean "aren't used?" By whom?

Carbonfiberboy 

For some reason, this thread has drifted away from science and over into religion and supposition. Just the scientific studies, or personal anecdotes, please. Like, "I drank so much Polish beetroot juice that I barfed." Honest, there seems to be a video.

wolfchild

Ok I just bought a jar of creatine today and took my first dose... I'll be pre-loading for the next 7 days and then just do the 5 gram maintenance. Lets hope for the best.

wolfchild

Polish people supplement with Vodka, beetroot juice is not potent enough for them... How do I know ??, because I was born there.

Carbonfiberboy 

I was raised by wolves too, just in Alaska. I was about 8, sitting on a big pile of dirt out on the homestead when a pack of wolves came through the clearing, nose to tail. Didn't even look at me - they could tell.

I wouldn't bother with the preload. I've always thought they just want to sell you more of the stuff. I tried that and cramped on a century. Probably no connection, but . . .