darrencope

Hi all,

I don't see many 'technique' questions here, but figured this is the best place to ask. I've done eight 'cross races since I started racing last fall. I'm slowly improving, but still have some (ok, many) things that I'd like to improve. I thought I'd throw this out there for some help from folks in terms of drills and specific training, or any technique tips that may help out!

I'm mostly a roady, and find that my fitness isn't the limiting factor in 'cross races--I can easily go too fast for my technical ability and get myself into trouble. I've spent a fair bit of time on barriers/dismounts/remounts, and although there's much still room for improvement, that's not my weakest point. My weakness is the twisty/turny stuff, mostly on grass sections or gravel and anything off-camber at all. Can anyone suggest any specific drills or tips to short-cut the learning process?

In short; tips for turns and off-camber stuff?

Thanks in advance!

M_S

It's funny, I'm more of a mountain biker (at least that's how I think of myself) but I'm the same way. I feel at least as fit as most of the guys I race against, but not as good on the twisties. I'm fine on other sorts of technical sections (loose climbs, sand, gravel, descents, logs) as long as it's relatively straight.

In my case it's probably a racing versus riding thing. I guess trail riding I usually take it pretty easy on the tight corners, and I very rarely race mountain bikes.

What's helped me is watching the lines other guys take, especially the A racers. Lower PSI in the tires helps with confidence, and mostly, like anything else, just practice, practice...

donotpanic

i don't know any proper advice, but what really helped me last race for a tight U-turn going down a hill was a to unclip a pedal and just be comfortable taking it extremely sharp (using my unclipped foot to keep balance). I unclip whatever foot i'm taking the turn into (Left turn = unclip left foot)

i'm not sure if it's good technique, but it worked for me.

darrencope

Thanks guys,

M_S:
I agree that watching the faster riders is a good way to learn, but usually they're pretty far ahead of me Lower PSI might help, although I generally go fairly low (35-45 running clinchers), so not sure I could/should go much lower!

donotpanic: I've seen riders with the foot unclipped, and always wonder about that. It's not something that ever occurs to me when I'm riding... maybe I'll have to give it a try in a practice situation and see...? Comments on this from other riders? Is it to keep the centre of gravity down, or what is the theory behind this?

dougkran

FWIW My advice when cornering off camber or on slippery sections would be a little extra weight on the front wheel, and use more back brake than front and let your front wheel work its magic.

epicsunday

I'm a former A racer with best Nat's result 13th place, just to qualify my advice. No need to unclip inside foot unless you'll be dismounting. No need to weight your front end to let it work it's magic. The best advice I can give you is spend a few hours a week riding your cross bike on varied terrain so your mind/body learns how to do it faster. Going fast on a cross bike comes from a comfort level only gained with experience. I ride my road bike off-road alot which helps immensely with confidence. I'd recommend you ride your cross bike with your road wheels on dirt trails, leafy areas, and slippery patches to learn how to carress the cross bike gently, predictably, and comforatably. The feedback you'll get from this activity will advance your skills rapidly. Another tidbit of advice... don't ride in the drops, instead ride on the hoods in a balanced position where you feel ready to brake, shift, hop on/off quickly, stand out of the saddle, protect your personal space with your elbows, and recover from a brief slip.

Think fast. Think like an elite racer. Choose smooth, straight, fast lines. Enter corners in control and accelerate out using the whole trail. Anticipate your next move. Stick around and watch the elite men and women warm-up on the course and race. You'll see the better racers re-work difficult sections many times prior to racing.

I can be more specific with technique if you'd like but this will get our started.

carlfreddy

I can't emphasize this one enough.

Though I'm a n00b to racing 'cross, I come from a SCCA background (Sports Car Club of America). Been racing cars since I was 18. It blew my mind how many 'crossers had no concept of an apex, let alone corner entry/exit.

Learning the racing line is paramount, especially in the tight, technical switchback sections of a 'cross race.

nycphotography

First you have to learn to find the racing line. This is not always the worn in line that everyone follows. Often, the top few have different lines... and everyone else follows the worn in trail laid down in the first practice of the morning (hint, the wet, slick, no traction lines... squared off and S.L.O.W.) By the time you race, alternate lines may have developed... look for them because THEY are likely the race line of the leaders.

Then you have to focus on maintaining race pace through every section of the course. These two mental skills should get you to mid pack.

Then.... you have to learn to find alternate lines (as in maybe not ideal, but still fast if you approach them right). And you have to learn to deal when you end up not on the line you want either because you messed up, someone crashed on the good line, or you are *gasp* passing someone and have to take it where you can get it. You have to learn to make crappy lines work. At race pace. Without losing focus.

But... I think the first simple mental lesson in cross is... DON'T LOOK DOWN.

Look through the corner where you want to go, and don't look down. This applies to corners, roots, rocks, sand, barriers, pretty much everything. Just don't look down. Look ahead and let the bike follow the line you chose... or whatever line it ends up on instead... your attention should always be on the NEXT obstacle or landmark and how to get there the fastest, smoothest, most efficient way. Focus on the what's ahead and not on what you're in now.

For corners... weight forward and slightly to the inside. Unclipping the inside foot can help move the center of gravity w/o leaning, but it's really more about confidence, knowing you can dab a foot quickly if needed. That said, its also impossible to pedal a little if unclipped and you find you scubbed off too much speed... so unclipping should be a last resort.

For climbs, weight back, seated or hovering just off the seat. If you have to stand to climb, keep your butt back to keep weight on the real wheel to prevent slippage. Use an easier gear and spin up smooth if you can.

For slick mud and or sand, weight back, look ahead, and let the bike wallow or slide around if it wants to. By looking ahead, you reduce your tendency to over correct. And by repeating this looking forward drill, you body will learn to control the bike with less sliding and wallowing around, and you'll gain confidence in recovering when it does.

Starting out, smooth is generally better than fast. Work on being smooth and predictable everywhere. As you gain confidence, faster starts to be better than smooth... but faster will still be smooth because you worked up to it with lots of practice (cornering drills) while staying smooth and (almost) in control.

darrencope

Thanks guys! Lots of great tips here, and most of the things mentioned are things I know I need more work on.

I know for a fact I choose poor lines--I don't have a 'natural' instinct for it like some seem to (although perhaps nobody does, and it's all practice). I think this is one of the major things I need practice on. Obviously being smooth is a related factor, and also something I need help with. Again, practice practice practice I guess! Thanks for the 'clipping out as a last resort' point--that reinforces what I thought.

Not looking ahead enough is probably my biggest problem--makes it impossible to choose lines ahead of time, and thus ride smoothly... wow.. easy to say what needs work on, now I just need to do it!

Thanks, and keep the tips coming!

shapelike

I think beyond picking a good line is you have to trust your equipment and know how it feels to take a turn at the bike's limit and what it feels like to go slightly beyond that.

Find yourself a grassy hill and do figure eights across the slope it. That'll give you off-camber switchback turns up and downhill. Make sure to mark them off so you have a clear goal that you have to make each turn.

Also, find two poles 25' apart or so and do figure eights around them, sprinting between each pole. This will help your burst speed and your high-speed cornering. This one's good to do on grass as well as your typical loose gravel baseball diamond infield.

</$0.02>

M_S

These are all good tips. I've been working on cornering in parks and on singletrack the past few days and feel I've made some improvement. Probably won't be racing for another week and a half so I have lots of time to practice.

darrencope

Thanks all; great tips

Shapelike, I did some 'figure 8' practice today--some on a hill for the off-camber stuff, some between soccer goal posts (low speed, close together, and some out on the soccer field with water bottles as markers--further apart so I could get some speed up, and sprinting in between. I think I'm making some progress, although obviously much more practice is required.

The figure 8's on the hill were really tough initially. I was riding the brakes almost constantly, which is my 'default' reaction to that type of terrain... then I slowly started getting a feel for it, and increased the speed a bit at a time. By the end, I was riding with fingers off the brakes, and found this to actually be easier carrying my speed and just trusted the bike to make the turn. It was a bit of a 'lightbulb' moment--now I just have to keep at it, and then apply it in a race situation, which I'm sure is easier said than done!

Thanks for the tips, and keep 'em coming!

flargle

I disagree that unclipping a foot is a "last resort". Watch the pros, they often unclip for off camber turns. Putting a foot out moves your center of gravity farther than you could otherwise. This is especially important when running low pressure tubulars, if you lean into an offcamber you run the risk of folding the tire and skidding out. Again, simply watch some superprestige or world cup races and see where the pros choose to put a foot out.

shapelike

At the same time, there's still a huge variance in skill even at that level. Some guys can bunny hop barriers at will. Some will never do it, etc.

rOOster14

and dont unclip your foot.
you want your weight to stay on the bike, you are adding another variable when you unclip and its likely to push your rear end around, ala motocross racing etc.
best of luck.

flargle

And yet there are turns where just about every pro unclips and drops a foot. It allows you to move your center of gravity farther inward than otherwise, allowing you to ride faster. Being able to dab a foot is just a bonus. The very beginning of this clip is just one example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONGYDR7STA8

jfmckenna

I'm with flargle on this one too. I do the unclip sometimes. I am a fairly well seasoned cat two racer and I see pro's do this all the time. In most cases it's not necessary but in some tight corners I will unclip and sort of walk through the corner. On really tight corners when riding in a group and you cannot take the best line you can actually slide the rear wheel out and cut a corner short but this takes a lot of practice.

One bit of advice that has helped me a lot is to learn where the edge of your tires and balance are. Go out into a grassy field on wet and dry days and be prepared to fall, wear a helmet and some elbow pads. Vary your speeds and take corners sharper and sharper till you start to slide out. Know that tipping point right there and it makes a huge difference.

A lot of cross riders are strong roadies or mountain bikers and the engine of course is important but cross races are won in the corners.

Oh BTW I was looking at some red bull road rage videos today and some of these insane MTB downhillers unclip at 50 MPH around corners

https://www.redbullroadrage.com/action.php

flargle

So is Simon Burney.

fix

oh good lord

Fat Boy

I come from a car/kart racing background and I find _exactly_ the same thing. Sometimes I just want to yell at the guy ahead of me, "It's about exit speed!". Having said this, I find that those guys are fairly easy to set up on and pass on the exit of a technical corner. They generally repass me on the next straight early in the race, but they use up so much energy doing the easy stuff wrong that I can eventually wear them down.

Someone else mentioned, though, you have to ride where the grip is. Sat night there was a section that was gravelly and super dodgy to ride on, but it was the 'best' line. On the second lap I figured out that if you took the 'wrong' line you were on asphalt and hardpack dirt. You just had to slow down a little bit for the corner as opposed for rolling a bunch of speed through it. Turned out to be _much_ faster, safer and used less energy. I never had anyone follow me where I was riding even though I'd go a lot faster. It was weird.

nycphotography

On finding lines and riding the sand pit:

This Sunday's sand trap started out as wet packed sand (rained all night Sat night) that was kind of off to the left of an otherwise long straight (a volleyball pit next to a gravel path). Through practice, everyone stayed to the right and wallowed through the same churned up 5 ft wide path of deep churned up sand.

First lap, I decided to carry as much speed into the sand as possible, keep my weight back so the front wheel won't deflect, and hope to skim it.

I carried a lot of speed, and aimed for the clean untouched sand to the way out of the way far far left... and skimmed across it almost like it wasn't there. Holy cow what a line... passed like 5 to 7 guys there alone. When crap like that works it's awesome.... Plus, it's demoralizing to pass someone with that much speed. Even if they catch you back on fitness (and most did eventually) they remember that pass and usually settle in behind you, thinking you own the tempo.

Every lap I tried the same thing, looking for clean unbroken sand (it got harder to find any as the race went on) but even on the last lap it was enough to pass anyone who was in front of me when we got to the sand. I accelerated in, kept the weight back, and let the bike slow somewhat making sure I chugged through to the exit. It took a lot of energy and put a serious hurting on the legs, but I was able to recover a bit while the other guys were wallowing around, getting off, and remounting.

Anyone who ran through the sand just got passed. Period.

You have to learn to ride through the sand.

And yes, the weird part is knowing you just smoked past a handful of guys on a super fast line and at the end of the race seeing only your own tracks on that line. SMDH.

nycphotography

Ironically, this weekend at Northampton, the opposite was true... anyone who rode the sand, even if they made it through, got passed.

The difference this time was a turn right before the sand that took all your momentum, then a turn in the sand itself.

In later races a rideable line formed, but early on it was just a big deep bowl of fail.

So I guess you ALSO have to learn to run the sand as well.

flargle

Saturday
Sunday

darrencope

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the tips. I haven't been making huge gains in standings in my races, but am (slowly) getting more comfortable and somewhat faster on the tricky stuff. I think it'll just take practice and more practice! Today's race had a tricky off-camber left-hander that was getting pretty greasy by the end of the race, and I ended up dismounting and running it, which resulted in me passing a couple of people on at least two occasions. I guess it pays to know your limits, and run where it's faster than riding!

I'll keep working on it, and maybe one day I'll even be able to consider myself 'good' at this sport! In the mean time, I'm going to continue having a hell of a lot of fun!

Nickel

For an off-camber uphill section, is it possible to do it comfortably if you have slight toe overlap? I kept falling over and ended up running the section, which worked out as I ran as fast as people could do it but still...I'd like to have that skill!