Are Drop bars just an illusion for most?
#701
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,190
Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 527 Times
in
349 Posts
I agree with you on both 1 and 2, but I don't see any difference in weight distribution and I don't see any physical justification for including leverage in the control input as a factor of more control. Moreover, I don't see any greater leverage in the drops either - the distance to the pivot point are essentially the same either way.
#702
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280
Bikes: Nashbar Road
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
228 Posts
Maybe the drops facilitate large body movements for you. Maybe something else. I'm not advocating or claiming any best practice either - but I am saying that physically the weight and control are the same, and that there are no particular advantages in grip and braking as well.
Of course if you're in a drops position that you can't attain on the hoods, or which is uncomfortable or unaccustomed, that's a different story.
#703
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,190
Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 527 Times
in
349 Posts
I do it interchangeably, and with my shoulders in the same location either way there is literally no difference in weight distribution. With the same weight (at the hands) at the same distance from the pivot point, there is literally no difference in leverage. These aren't subjective factors.
Maybe the drops facilitate large body movements for you. Maybe something else. I'm not advocating or claiming any best practice either - but I am saying that physically the weight and control are the same, and that there are no particular advantages in grip and braking as well.
Of course if you're in a drops position that you can't attain on the hoods, or which is uncomfortable or unaccustomed, that's a different story.
Maybe the drops facilitate large body movements for you. Maybe something else. I'm not advocating or claiming any best practice either - but I am saying that physically the weight and control are the same, and that there are no particular advantages in grip and braking as well.
Of course if you're in a drops position that you can't attain on the hoods, or which is uncomfortable or unaccustomed, that's a different story.
#705
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,190
Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 527 Times
in
349 Posts
I rotate my hips in the drops which lowers my center of gravity. I'm also not letting the bike take me for a ride around the corner. I'm leaning into it with my weight also shifted slightly forward. Hands in the drops gives me greater leverage for counter pressure in addition to my outside foot.
Likes For jadocs:
#706
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280
Bikes: Nashbar Road
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
228 Posts
I rotate my hips in the drops which lowers my center of gravity. I'm also not letting the bike take me for a ride around the corner. I'm leaning into it with my weight also shifted slightly forward. Hands in the drops gives me greater leverage for counter pressure in addition to my outside foot.
#707
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,190
Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 527 Times
in
349 Posts
I'm not sure what you are getting at. You said your shoulders are in the same position on the hoods and drops. I was just answering your questions and provided answers on why "I" do what I do.
#709
Senior Member
It takes a minuscule amount of effort to steer a bicycle. Any extra leverage, even if it existed, would be completely unnecessary.
#710
Banned
Other times, it can take a significant amount of effort to steer and the extra leverage from being in the drops is completely necessary.
Likes For ab_antiquo:
#711
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,314 Times
in
707 Posts
It depends. If I'm being a MUPpet or taking it easy on the road, steering effort is minimal and the difference between being on the hoods or in the drops is miniscule.
Other times, it can take a significant amount of effort to steer and the extra leverage from being in the drops is completely necessary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu_htzzg08g
Nice video.
But if drops are so important, explain how the guy you were following did it with flat bars?
This use of video's to try to prove something rarely works well. Here's one that shows the exact opposite supposition. In this case the rider seems to go to the drops for sprinting but switches to the hoods for maneuverability. What does it really prove? Nothing much other than he prefers that.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 10-21-19 at 11:21 PM.
#712
Banned
It would be helpful if you read, and understood, the post that I was replying to before replying.
Here is what I was responding to:
”It takes a minuscule amount of effort to steer a bicycle. Any extra leverage, even if it existed, would be completely unnecessary.”
Good luck in your search for understanding.
Likes For ab_antiquo:
#713
BF's Resident Dumbass
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1,566
Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer (size 21"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9; 2020 Dahon Hemingway D9
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 792 Post(s)
Liked 1,494 Times
in
496 Posts
#715
BF's Resident Dumbass
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1,566
Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer (size 21"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9; 2020 Dahon Hemingway D9
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 792 Post(s)
Liked 1,494 Times
in
496 Posts
^ You don't say!
#716
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
This thread got so diverted into ridiculous arcane technical distinctions that I totally don't feel bad about this diversion --how are you doing? Are you doing any more riding these days? And just to stay on topic, do you ever reach for the drops and regret they're not there?
Likes For livedarklions:
#717
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,935
Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2614 Post(s)
Liked 1,958 Times
in
1,227 Posts
Likes For pdlamb:
#718
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,314 Times
in
707 Posts
This is a nonsensical response and a straw man argument. I have not claimed that drop bars on are superior to flat bars.
It would be helpful if you read, and understood, the post that I was replying to before replying.
Here is what I was responding to:
”It takes a minuscule amount of effort to steer a bicycle. Any extra leverage, even if it existed, would be completely unnecessary.”
Good luck in your search for understanding.
It would be helpful if you read, and understood, the post that I was replying to before replying.
Here is what I was responding to:
”It takes a minuscule amount of effort to steer a bicycle. Any extra leverage, even if it existed, would be completely unnecessary.”
Good luck in your search for understanding.
Unless you just parachuted into this thread to make that one post you'd understand the whole context of my reply. It's been a mud fest of trying to suggest one position on the bars are superior or neccessary to the other for this reason or that. Safety, braking, maneuverability. Take your pick. You posted a video (again, I enjoyed it) seeming to suggest riding in the drops was needed, in some situations. I was simply struck that the guy you were following used flats in the same conditions.
In my response video I linked to a guy who switched to the hoods every time he wanted more maneuverability. Not to discredit your POV but to show that simply linking videos really doesn't prove a point. In this thread several videos have been used in that way and all of them seem to show half a picture or a picture out of context (like a guy teaching how to do a front wheelie as evidence about an endo).
Sorry you got upset. In this context, my question wasn't a straw man but simply addressed the main (albeit admittedly silly at this point) thrust of the current debate.
You said: "it can take a significant amount of effort to steer and the extra leverage from being in the drops is completely necessary."
I asked: :what about the guy using the flats?"
I then linked a video showing that some go to the hoods, not the drops, for extra leverage.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 10-22-19 at 08:26 AM.
#719
Banned
You said: "it can take a significant amount of effort to steer and the extra leverage from being in the drops is completely necessary."
I asked: :what about the guy using the flats?"
I then linked a video showing that some go to the hoods, not the drops, for extra leverage.
I asked: :what about the guy using the flats?"
I then linked a video showing that some go to the hoods, not the drops, for extra leverage.
A valid comparison is the difference between the flats, the hoods and the drops on the gravel bike. That's why I replied with "it depends" when the other guy posted "It takes a minuscule amount of effort to steer a bicycle. Any extra leverage, even if it existed, would be completely unnecessary.."
Likes For ab_antiquo:
#720
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,314 Times
in
707 Posts
I get it. You ignored the post I replied to and apparently can't understand that comparing the flat bar on a mountain bike to riding the drops on a gravel bike is nonsensical ("if drops are so important, explain how the guy you were following did it with flat bars?")
A valid comparison is the difference between the flats, the hoods and the drops on the gravel bike. That's why I replied with "it depends" when the other guy posted "It takes a minuscule amount of effort to steer a bicycle. Any extra leverage, even if it existed, would be completely unnecessary.."
A valid comparison is the difference between the flats, the hoods and the drops on the gravel bike. That's why I replied with "it depends" when the other guy posted "It takes a minuscule amount of effort to steer a bicycle. Any extra leverage, even if it existed, would be completely unnecessary.."
It's a small point but I think what would have avoided 90% of the back and forth in this thread would be if people used the qualifier "For Me" in front of their position statement.
When you say this: "...it can take a significant amount of effort to steer and the extra leverage from being in the drops is completely necessary."
it's pretty easy to counter. As an absolute statement it's false. It's not completely necessary to be in "the drops" as another rider in the same video is on the flats. Even when limiting it to drop bars the other video linked shows the hoods being used for extra steering and leverage.
However, if you say this: "For me, it can take a significant amount of effort to steer and the extra leverage from being in the drops is completely necessary."
one cannot argue (other to insult ones abilities as a few have attempted). That is a 100% valid statement.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 10-22-19 at 09:50 AM.
#721
Version 7.0
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,138
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1349 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times
in
1,461 Posts
Moderators note: Okay. This has been an interesting thread with many view points debated but may be nearing the end of its useful life. We will leave it open as long as posts remains within forum rules. Please avoid unnecessary inflammatory remarks, trolling and etc.
Likes For Hermes:
#722
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,857
Bikes: Road bike, Hybrid, Gravel, Drop bar SS, hard tail MTB
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1218 Post(s)
Liked 298 Times
in
214 Posts
Common 'standard' widths for flat bars are 580 or 600mm (compared to 685mm for risers) but bars will feature graduated markings on the grip ends so they can be cut down to preference.
The average Drop bar width is? Common sizes are 38, 40, 42, and 44cm
Drops vs Flat bars are not even in the Same League. Calling riding a flat bar equal to riding the hoods is bat poop crazy!
The average Drop bar width is? Common sizes are 38, 40, 42, and 44cm
Drops vs Flat bars are not even in the Same League. Calling riding a flat bar equal to riding the hoods is bat poop crazy!
Likes For Metieval:
#723
Banned
How would the other rider, on a completely different bike (geometry, wheel size, tire size, stem size, handlebar size), be able to ride in the drops when his bike doesn’t have drops?
The hand position of the guy in front of me is ~400mm from the stem to the outside edge of his hand.
My hand position is ~220 from the stem in the drops and much less on MY flats and also less when I’m on the hoods.
Of course flat bar Bryan has more leverage on his flats.
You’re comparing apples and watermelons.
Likes For ab_antiquo:
#724
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,314 Times
in
707 Posts
This is very funny.
How would the other rider, on a completely different bike (geometry, wheel size, tire size, stem size, handlebar size), be able to ride in the drops when his bike doesn’t have drops?
The hand position of the guy in front of me is ~400mm from the stem to the outside edge of his hand.
My hand position is ~220 from the stem in the drops and much less on MY flats and also less when I’m on the hoods.
Of course flat bar Bryan has more leverage on his flats.
You’re comparing apples and watermelons.
How would the other rider, on a completely different bike (geometry, wheel size, tire size, stem size, handlebar size), be able to ride in the drops when his bike doesn’t have drops?
The hand position of the guy in front of me is ~400mm from the stem to the outside edge of his hand.
My hand position is ~220 from the stem in the drops and much less on MY flats and also less when I’m on the hoods.
Of course flat bar Bryan has more leverage on his flats.
You’re comparing apples and watermelons.
And on and on it goes... You address that but cut out this from the same quote:
and it's predictable to see the troll up to his usual tricks right after the mod says to limit inflammatory comments.
Drops vs Flat bars are not even in the Same League. Calling riding a flat bar equal to riding the hoods is bat poop crazy!
#725
Banned
As previously noted, I get more leverage when I'm in the drops vs. on the hoods. That's because my hands are further from the steering axis when I'm in the drops. That's not the sole reason of course, but that's what I brought up when replying to the other guy's erroneous claims about additional leverage being unnecessary.
Congrats on finally dropping the flat bar MTB vs. drop bar gravel bike nonsense.