Power Meters (Why?)
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John
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If you're the type of person who likes to quantify and measure things, buy one.
If you're the type of person who could not care less, don't buy one.
In either case, stay in your lane.
-Kedosto
If you're the type of person who could not care less, don't buy one.
In either case, stay in your lane.
-Kedosto
#53
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For that price, even if it broke, I still had the wheel to use.
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#54
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Self-install crank based Avios can be had for around $160 from various UK sellers. Avio states they only work with Shimano cranks, but with a bit of ingenuity I was able to mount one to my Campagnolo Potenza crank. It required disassembly of the Avio, and the application of heat to bend the case so that it followed the contour of the crank.
John
John
I would apply one to a Shimano HT crank and one to a Praxis Zayante crank, but all the other bikes are old cranks(from the 80s) that are almost certainly too thin to cover the meter. I could put a modern crank on one of those bikes, but ugh thats lame.
Anyways, this would take care of my gravel bike and perhaps my main road bike.
Time to do some reading!
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Where an issue occurs is where certain parties start to forward the notion that the collection/analysis of data somehow threatens the Zen of cycling as a pursuit. The tacit suggestion that anyone who dares take cycling away from it's origins in purity is doing it wrong.
These devices are tools, and if you find the tool useful to the type of riding you do, who the heck am I to question it? But I don't think it's bashing of anything or anyone for me to say I don't want one and don't need one for the kind of riding I do.
There's a bigger issue here, which is why I'm taking the chance of pushing back against a moderator--I'm a big believer that people need to find fitness regimens that suit their own needs, and that the biggest enemy of that is people convincing them that there's only one way to do things. If that one way doesn't work for them, then they're going to be thoroughly discouraged. A lot of this is psychological, some of us work better if we monitor and record lots of data, some of us find that turns it into an unpleasant chore to be avoided. Neither group is "wrong", they're only describing what's right for them. I try to be very careful to always say "this works for me" so people know there's an option out there they can think about and/or try that may not have occurred to them--it doesn't imply that they shouldn't try the other options, only that they shouldn't feel they have to because it's the only game in town.
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#57
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Self-install crank based Avios can be had for around $160 from various UK sellers. Avio states they only work with Shimano cranks, but with a bit of ingenuity I was able to mount one to my Campagnolo Potenza crank. It required disassembly of the Avio, and the application of heat to bend the case so that it followed the contour of the crank.
John
John
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I'm pretty sure I'm one of the posters you're talking about, and I think you're writing in a "tacit suggestion" no one is making. Saying that this kind of monitoring violates my philosophy of riding and how I best enjoy it implies absolutely nothing about whether "anyone who dares" viewing it differently is wrong. I just feel a need to state to the OP that the notion that you can't learn to ride fast without one of those devices or any other specific training regimen is nonsense, and he/she shouldn't feel as if there's something wrong if they don't desire one.
These devices are tools, and if you find the tool useful to the type of riding you do, who the heck am I to question it? But I don't think it's bashing of anything or anyone for me to say I don't want one and don't need one for the kind of riding I do.
There's a bigger issue here, which is why I'm taking the chance of pushing back against a moderator--I'm a big believer that people need to find fitness regimens that suit their own needs, and that the biggest enemy of that is people convincing them that there's only one way to do things. If that one way doesn't work for them, then they're going to be thoroughly discouraged. A lot of this is psychological, some of us work better if we monitor and record lots of data, some of us find that turns it into an unpleasant chore to be avoided. Neither group is "wrong", they're only describing what's right for them. I try to be very careful to always say "this works for me" so people know there's an option out there they can think about and/or try that may not have occurred to them--it doesn't imply that they shouldn't try the other options, only that they shouldn't feel they have to because it's the only game in town.
These devices are tools, and if you find the tool useful to the type of riding you do, who the heck am I to question it? But I don't think it's bashing of anything or anyone for me to say I don't want one and don't need one for the kind of riding I do.
There's a bigger issue here, which is why I'm taking the chance of pushing back against a moderator--I'm a big believer that people need to find fitness regimens that suit their own needs, and that the biggest enemy of that is people convincing them that there's only one way to do things. If that one way doesn't work for them, then they're going to be thoroughly discouraged. A lot of this is psychological, some of us work better if we monitor and record lots of data, some of us find that turns it into an unpleasant chore to be avoided. Neither group is "wrong", they're only describing what's right for them. I try to be very careful to always say "this works for me" so people know there's an option out there they can think about and/or try that may not have occurred to them--it doesn't imply that they shouldn't try the other options, only that they shouldn't feel they have to because it's the only game in town.
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#59
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IMO, the number one reason to have power on the bike is to collect metrics that can be exported to remote third parties either instantaneously or post ride. I use 3rd party coaches to generate a training plan and provide feedback after my workouts. Having pedal force data in the form of torque or power provides a much better insight for the coach to make corrections to plans that support goals. And the coach can be remote versus with me at the time.
And there are the 3rd party software applications such as Zwift and Peloton that take advantage of instantaneous power metrics to enhance user experience.
I think it is more about goals and how to achieve the goals that determine the electronics, including power meters, that one selects.
And there are the 3rd party software applications such as Zwift and Peloton that take advantage of instantaneous power metrics to enhance user experience.
I think it is more about goals and how to achieve the goals that determine the electronics, including power meters, that one selects.
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#60
Destroyer of Worlds
IMO, the number one reason to have power on the bike is to collect metrics that can be exported to remote third parties either instantaneously or post ride. I use 3rd party coaches to generate a training plan and provide feedback after my workouts. Having pedal force data in the form of torque or power provides a much better insight for the coach to make corrections to plans that support goals. And the coach can be remote versus with me at the time.
And there are the 3rd party software applications such as Zwift and Peloton that take advantage of instantaneous power metrics to enhance user experience.
I think it is more about goals and how to achieve the goals that determine the electronics, including power meters, that one selects.
And there are the 3rd party software applications such as Zwift and Peloton that take advantage of instantaneous power metrics to enhance user experience.
I think it is more about goals and how to achieve the goals that determine the electronics, including power meters, that one selects.
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Does this manufacturer have a response curve for the Campy crank or is there a calibration technique used with some sort of weight being hung from the pedal? Just physically fitting the crank is really a small part of the equation. They also need to have their calculation for the dimensions of the Campy crank and how much strain the crank arm sees under a given load at the spot it is mounted. Different height and width of the cross-section of the crank arm will change the reading that the meter sees.
John
#62
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Self-install crank based Avios can be had for around $160 from various UK sellers. Avio states they only work with Shimano cranks, but with a bit of ingenuity I was able to mount one to my Campagnolo Potenza crank. It required disassembly of the Avio, and the application of heat to bend the case so that it followed the contour of the crank.
John
John
It's on the radar, but $260 per crank isnt in the cards right now.
Thanks again for the tip though as its something I'll track.
May need to search specific sites too, as google doesnt bring many up.
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I'm seeing prices that are $100 more than this, since the application products are sold separately from the power meter.
It's on the radar, but $260 per crank isnt in the cards right now.
Thanks again for the tip though as its something I'll track.
May need to search specific sites too, as google doesnt bring many up.
It's on the radar, but $260 per crank isnt in the cards right now.
Thanks again for the tip though as its something I'll track.
May need to search specific sites too, as google doesnt bring many up.
John
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GOLD12 coupon code will knock 12% of the price, too.
#65
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I bought a used Garmin single-pedal system off CL last summer to train for consistent power output for climbing. I wanted data in addition to HR to train with, rather than piling on junk miles. Then everything got derailed. Looking forward to starting over in the spring. If you’re curious, look for a used PM.
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#66
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Question for you since you have home installed it- could it be temporarily installed on a crank using something like 3m releasable tape?
Thinking about using it for the winter on the trainer bike then attaching it to one of my road bikes come spring for outdoor use.
Wasnt sure if a thin layer like the releasable tape somehow messes with power readings?
If this is isnt possible, I will end up attaching the PM to a crank on one of my outdoor bikes, then moving that crank and bottom bracket to the trainer bike. Just hoping to reduce work.
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If you are going down the Power Meter route I would recommend going with an accurate supported unit. An inaccurate or unreliable unit will serve little or no purpose. DC Rainmaker as mentioned earlier is the sports tech guru in this space and I would strongly recommend going with his recommendations.
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If you are looking for a cheap power meter option, I have a PowerTap PowerCal that if I remember correctly was around $100. While not considered a true (it uses an algorithm based on heartbeat) power meter. I have been using it for a couple of years and I like it. While definitely not as accurate as a true power meter it works well for what I do. When I do my usual rides the results are pretty consistent. Below is a quote from DC Rainmaker on it.
"PowerCal isn't marketed as a 100% accurate power meter. Nor as a tool for elite athletes (or any advanced athlete) to use as a hard core pacing device in a race or even day to day training. Instead, what it does offer is a low-cost method of getting a rough order of magnitude of your power level on a given ride."
"PowerCal isn't marketed as a 100% accurate power meter. Nor as a tool for elite athletes (or any advanced athlete) to use as a hard core pacing device in a race or even day to day training. Instead, what it does offer is a low-cost method of getting a rough order of magnitude of your power level on a given ride."
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If you are looking for a cheap power meter option, I have a PowerTap PowerCal that if I remember correctly was around $100. While not considered a true (it uses an algorithm based on heartbeat) power meter. I have been using it for a couple of years and I like it. While definitely not as accurate as a true power meter it works well for what I do.
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#70
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A.) Why not?
B.) The best objective training metric.
C.) Power meters never lie.
B.) The best objective training metric.
C.) Power meters never lie.
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I have only used Garmin so I don't know about the others. I could be wrong, but I don't think that Garmin provides power stats via "guesstimate". I think it requires a sensor providing data.
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Most of the guys I ride with have PMs. Most of them also tell me they don't do anything with the data. They just come out to ride with the group, just like me. I don't have one, but they are always sending me ads and specials about this and that, enticing me. If they were a lot cheaper than maybe I might consider it. I wouldn't do anything with the data either as I don't train; I just ride, and I am fast enough to keep up with the guys I ride with. I've no interest in training. I'm sure that if I were training that I'd get one. If I rode indoors I'd get one.
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You need a power meter if you want to objectively measure your efforts in a repeatable, precise manner. Less commonly, if you need to relate your efforts to some measure of speed.
If you're training seriously but not racing (and if someone has to ask "why" they'll never understand), it just depends on how precise you want that data to be.
If you're training seriously but not racing (and if someone has to ask "why" they'll never understand), it just depends on how precise you want that data to be.
I have not seen the power training folks go faster than those that don't.
Cameron Wurf - 2X Kona record breaker - no PM
Taylor Phinney - no PM
(those are public with videos)
Many racers have them. Our current USA kids do too. USAC coaches get all excited about power too.
If you want to go faster, measuring speed is more results oriented.
Last edited by Doge; 11-14-19 at 12:20 AM.
#74
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#75
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Except that other that between the green and checkered flags, speed is a meaningless metric. I could draft a van all day and do a century at a 30mph average. Or I could just ride downhill. Or one day the wind is in my face and the other is at my back.
Speed is in not always indicative of effort. A power meter shows work done and ignores speed altogether. Anyone who has ever ridden up a hill knows it can take every bit as much work to climb a hill at 7mph as to cruise on flat ground at +20mph.
A power meter is one way to eliminate a lot of variables.
Speed is in not always indicative of effort. A power meter shows work done and ignores speed altogether. Anyone who has ever ridden up a hill knows it can take every bit as much work to climb a hill at 7mph as to cruise on flat ground at +20mph.
A power meter is one way to eliminate a lot of variables.
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