rosefarts

If anyone didn't see the other thread, the local cobbler fixed my shoes. Now I want to ride them.

I've got some most excellent Dura Ace 7400 toe clip pedals. I've got them mated with a pair of Nike TC shoes from the same years. They came with two pairs of Nike brand slotted cleats.

I'd like to ride the whole kit together, since that's what the original owner did, or planned to do, or thought about doing. The shoes are almost brand new, so maybe they didn't work in '86 either.

Trouble is, the only way I can get into the groove of the cleat is with two hands helping. The only way I can get out is by removing the shoe. This is with the strap let out as far as it goes.

I realize this pedal and cleat system will never be as safe or easy as clipless. I can accept that. Right now, it's not even functional.
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Sean Kelly didn't mind. There clearly must be a way to get it to work.

-I could get longer straps if they're available.
-I could grind down the cleat to create a better ramp to get in. The cleats are semi hollow though, so I might go through before getting it right. And I'd still be stuck in.
-I could totally remove the cleat and bolt some type of minimal interference creation to the bottom.

OR

These old shoes are threaded for slotted or 3 hole.

-I could install a brand new pair of cleats and put one of 3 pairs of pedals (including green titanium Speedplay) on that would fit.

-I could find a pair of era appropriate Delta's on eBay for like $25, and I have a pair of new red cleats in the garage.

Pics if you need them, but I think it's pretty self-explanatory.

What am I missing?
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Trakhak

Pics would indeed help, since your description doesn't clarify why the cleat slots are reluctant to fit over the pedal plates. Offhand, I can picture the toe clips being too short or too low to allow the shoe to reach the end of the toe clip, keeping the cleat slot from reaching the pedal plate.

Either that, or the slot is too narrow for the pedal plate, but that seems unlikely, since every Dura Ace toe clip pedal I can remember seeing had a steel plate and thus would not be particularly thick.

Last ride 76 

+1 can't picture how this is happening at both ends as it were.

Sorry to ask, but you are talking about road shoes, right... 'cause if not, there's your answer.

rosefarts

Sure thing


Example of one of the brand new Nike cleats

Profile of height relative to sole

The bottom, the strap is actually connected via one of the Look threads under the cleat. The strap is removable but I don't think it's the problem.

Once locked in, it's not going anywhere.

conspiratemus1

What happens if you unbuckle the toe strap and disengage it fully from the toe clip? Is there still interference between cleat and pedal with the strap out of the picture?

Edit: Just saw your pix. The strap over the forefoot of the shoe is bulking up the top of the shoe and fouling with its passage under the clip and toe strap. Then, once forced in it’s trapped there. You need a smooth lace-up upper.

rosefarts

It's difficult to remove since it attaches under the cleat. However, it really doesn't seem to be in the way. It hangs up a little but I can't budge with this setup.

conspiratemus1

See my edited post above.

Salamandrine 

For starters, you're not supposed to insert the loose end of the strap through the buckle.* Leave it flapping loose, that way they are easy to pull tight, and if you want to loosen them, just yank a little on the loose end of the buckle. Cleats are not practical if you don't set it up this way.

Secondly, that's an extreme ankles-in angle. Generally you'd try to set them up for your feet to be as straight and non duck foot as possible. If your heel is hitting the crank, it's not going to work. If this is just how your feet are, you're not a strong candidate for slot cleats. Get some modern floaty things or platforms or something.

If the issue is simply that the slot is too tight for the pedal, just sand it wider with a sanding stick or something. It should slip easily over the pedal cage. The plastic cleats could get squashed from walking around.

Also, that buckle is way to low. It should be about midway between the edge of the shoe and the top of the toe clip, IOW, move it up a couple inches.

A properly set up cleated shoe and toe clip/strap pedal system should function just as safely as a clipless. If you crash, even with tight straps, your foot is supposed to come out. You do have to learn to remember to reach down and loosen straps at stop signs, etc. We'd mostly just leave them loose in town BITD.


*(Before someone busts me, I realize some people tuck them in, and leave them mostly loose all the time. I'm simply talking about how 99% of the people who used slotted cleats would have done it)

Salamandrine 

Just generally speaking, those transitional period shoes with both slot cleats and velcro straps aren't ideal for toe clips. The straps are really going to get in the way and make getting in and out difficult. It would drive me nuts. I'd repurpose them for clipless, and get some traditional shoes with laces or shoes with some sort of flap to cover up that mess instead.

That's what I'm thinkin...

rosefarts

Salamander,

I'll try the buckle trick, that should give me 3/4" extra length.

It's actually a fairly ankles out position. Having nothing to do with my anatomy, the shoe rubs the cranks if it's more than a few degrees in from that.

I'm happy to remove the forefoot strap since it's optional. Like I said though, I don't think it's hanging up.

top506

IIRC, 7400 pedals used a proprietary Shimano cleat.

Top

conspiratemus1

By “toe strap” I meant the narrow leather strap that’s threaded thru the pedal and toe clip, not the wide strap that is part of your shoe. In any event i think the two straps are interfering with each other. Maybe this is why the shoes didn’t work back in 1986 as you suspected.

rosefarts

I've seen a slotted cleat that not only slots into the back plate but has a triangular interface for the more forward area. Extremely cool, impossible to get.

Salamandrine 

Yeah, I remember those weird cleats. I think there was an ultegra version too at some point. Or maybe they used the same one. (??)

A standard cleat should work too, but it's possible some filing or grinding will be needed if it's hanging up on the pedal body somewhere.

rosefarts

7401 Clipless pedals are abundant on eBay.

I could buy 5 pairs for what I could get for my pedals + bearing wrench.

rosefarts

I bet you're right. Cycling is full of half ideas.

Look at the suspension of the early 90s, or bar ends, or softride, or really just about anything i used to really really want.

Miele Man

I find that the PD-64 (aka PD64) cleats work best with the Dura Ace 7400 pedals or the Shimano N600 pedals. Those cleats are still available online from various sources and for various prices.

Cheers

repechage

Just take a bloom'n file to the cleat slot. Note, when one walks on cleats for any amount of distance, they will close up.
The Shimano pedal does not have a large amount of depth to the pedal body from the back plate, observe the cleat /shoe assembly in the pedal, you might have to grind back part of the cleat to get it to clear the pedal body.
When these were popular due to the added cornering clearance for for a brief moment before Look wiped them to redundancy, this is what we did at the shop every week.

rosefarts

I'm still weighing my options.

I'm currently thinking about a vintage pair or Looks or some Shimano 7401 for most riding. Since clipless is so easy and it's what I know.

Also considering Keo cleats on the old shoes since I have a pair of black and white pedals that actually look the part pretty well. That would give me cross compatibility with my newer bike shoes too.

At least a few times though, I want to ride those toe clip pedals fully slotted in. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to do that, with what I have, without killing myself.

Ex Pres 

Try pulling up on the front of your clips to pop out of the slot. Leverage.

steelbikeguy

I'm still running a few pairs of shoes with plastic slotted cleats. While I don't use a file, I do periodically open up the slots with a dremel tool. The plastic does deform a bit when you walk on the cleats (which you should minimize, of course).

Steve in Peoria

steelbikeguy

Definitely a novel feature, but not important unless you are a sprinter or track person. It just fit into some features on the front of the pedal, apparently to keep the front of the foot from lifting up??

If you are looking for something "cool", have you considered the double straps used by track folks? When you have legs like tree trunks, you need an extra strap to avoid ripping your feet out of the pedals.
https://www.tracksupermarket.com/ped...traps-njs.html

Steve in Peoria
(with legs like saplings)

madpogue 

Get cleat covers.

jiangshi

I rode those pedals for years. Your problem is the shoes. You need shoes that lace only. The straps are your problem.

clubman 

Properly installed straps make a huge difference.. Get the buckles up high, don't double tuck the strap ends like a pants belt, let the end hang out there.. To release, reach down and one push of the sprung buckle should release tension.
I don't/can't use them so it's moot for me.