Crack near bottom bracket shell - don't buy?
08-26-20, 01:18 PM
#1
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Crack near bottom bracket shell - don't buy?
I have the opportunity to buy an Alan Carbonio frame. It has a tiny crack here:
How worrying is that? Deal-breaker? Leg-breaker?
Guidance appreciated!
How worrying is that? Deal-breaker? Leg-breaker?
Guidance appreciated!
08-26-20, 02:26 PM
#2
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08-26-20, 02:30 PM
#3
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You're sure it is a crack and not a scratch?
For a display bike/frame... sure.
If you're planning on riding the bike more than around the block at a show... don't do it.
For a display bike/frame... sure.
If you're planning on riding the bike more than around the block at a show... don't do it.
08-26-20, 02:35 PM
#4
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@Funktopus - Call around and try to find someone who can repair one of these frames. I had a similar opportunity on one with the crack at the top. I couldn't find anyone who would/could replace one (ALAN with "screw and glue" lugs??). I was told I could mail it to Italy and there might have been someone in the USA who could do it. Either way, if you find that person and get a quote, add it to the price of the frame and see if it's worth it. I walked from the one I saw at $50 Canadian.
08-26-20, 02:43 PM
#5
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I think there were companies specializing in Alan or Vitus Aluminum repairs. But, start with say a $100 frame... invest a few hundred bucks in the repair, and you have an expensive frame. Might as well start with the one you want.
The only way I'd personally touch that one is if I had FREE access to a 4 or 5 axis CNC, or perhaps wanted to try lost wax casting.
Student Project?
But, then again, who knows.
The only way I'd personally touch that one is if I had FREE access to a 4 or 5 axis CNC, or perhaps wanted to try lost wax casting.
Student Project?
But, then again, who knows.
08-26-20, 02:44 PM
#6
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She's dead, Jim.
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08-26-20, 02:48 PM
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It's likely irreparable and will likely grow. That said, if it were $free, I'd probably put some components on it and ride it a few times just for kicks (with routine inspection at every traffic light; electric blue sharpie on the cracked area to reveal any growth).
Likely irreparable: the lugs are cast aluminum, which (depending on the alloy) ranges from "can't be welded; falls apart in crumbly mess when you try" to "likely weldable but only by an expert". Regardless, you'd have to get the other tubes out for a repair, because the epoxy bonding can't take the heat that welding would bring, even if you were to use an extensive heat sink or submerge the rest of the frame underwater (which no sane welder would agree to do).
Likely will grow: just my intuition. It is a crack in a casting that is under tension due to the tapered threads on the chainstay ends which are screwed into that lug and likely force that crack open. That's why I think Vitus frames are better designed. They put the castings under compression and the tubes under tension at the joints.
Likely irreparable: the lugs are cast aluminum, which (depending on the alloy) ranges from "can't be welded; falls apart in crumbly mess when you try" to "likely weldable but only by an expert". Regardless, you'd have to get the other tubes out for a repair, because the epoxy bonding can't take the heat that welding would bring, even if you were to use an extensive heat sink or submerge the rest of the frame underwater (which no sane welder would agree to do).
Likely will grow: just my intuition. It is a crack in a casting that is under tension due to the tapered threads on the chainstay ends which are screwed into that lug and likely force that crack open. That's why I think Vitus frames are better designed. They put the castings under compression and the tubes under tension at the joints.
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08-26-20, 03:26 PM
#8
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It's likely irreparable and will likely grow. That said, if it were $free, I'd probably put some components on it and ride it a few times just for kicks (with routine inspection at every traffic light; electric blue sharpie on the cracked area to reveal any growth).
Likely irreparable: the lugs are cast aluminum, which (depending on the alloy) ranges from "can't be welded; falls apart in crumbly mess when you try" to "likely weldable but only by an expert". Regardless, you'd have to get the other tubes out for a repair, because the epoxy bonding can't take the heat that welding would bring, even if you were to use an extensive heat sink or submerge the rest of the frame underwater (which no sane welder would agree to do).
Likely will grow: just my intuition. It is a crack in a casting that is under tension due to the tapered threads on the chainstay ends which are screwed into that lug and likely force that crack open. That's why I think Vitus frames are better designed. They put the castings under compression and the tubes under tension at the joints.
Likely irreparable: the lugs are cast aluminum, which (depending on the alloy) ranges from "can't be welded; falls apart in crumbly mess when you try" to "likely weldable but only by an expert". Regardless, you'd have to get the other tubes out for a repair, because the epoxy bonding can't take the heat that welding would bring, even if you were to use an extensive heat sink or submerge the rest of the frame underwater (which no sane welder would agree to do).
Likely will grow: just my intuition. It is a crack in a casting that is under tension due to the tapered threads on the chainstay ends which are screwed into that lug and likely force that crack open. That's why I think Vitus frames are better designed. They put the castings under compression and the tubes under tension at the joints.
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08-26-20, 03:40 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
As usual, thanks for the excellent advice from all of you guys. Not what I was hoping to hear, but definitely what I needed to hear!
Including postage this frame is going for £80, and the Carbonio ticks a lot of boxes for me. I love my Vitus 787 and want more like it, I've been looking for an early example of a carbon frame for a while, and I've been meaning to try a slightly larger frame with a longer top tube. But it was all too good to be true. There's another sweet deal out there waiting to be found.
Including postage this frame is going for £80, and the Carbonio ticks a lot of boxes for me. I love my Vitus 787 and want more like it, I've been looking for an early example of a carbon frame for a while, and I've been meaning to try a slightly larger frame with a longer top tube. But it was all too good to be true. There's another sweet deal out there waiting to be found.
08-26-20, 03:46 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
@Funktopus - Call around and try to find someone who can repair one of these frames. I had a similar opportunity on one with the crack at the top. I couldn't find anyone who would/could replace one (ALAN with "screw and glue" lugs??). I was told I could mail it to Italy and there might have been someone in the USA who could do it. Either way, if you find that person and get a quote, add it to the price of the frame and see if it's worth it. I walked from the one I saw at $50 Canadian.
Would also love to take the frame to Italy for a repair, but even from the UK that's a trek. France is only a few hours from where I live though, if this were a Vitus it might have all been a different story!
08-26-20, 07:18 PM
#11
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I believe Alan has transitioned to all welded frames. I doubt taking it to the factory would help. Just speciality restoration shops.
08-27-20, 02:54 AM
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That is a crack and not all that uncommon on glued frame sets. Even the glued and screwed ones lean towards failure. That frame is toast and should not be trusted, particularly in the bottom bracket area.
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