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Not sure how to remove this cassette

Old 05-14-18, 08:46 PM
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RockiesDad
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Not sure how to remove this cassette

The bike is around a '93 Specialized 7 speed. I'm trying to remove this cassette but not sure how. The removal tool does not fully drop into the cassette due to a lip or something just beneath the locking ring. With only about a 2mm drop into the locking ring the tool is very loose. Do I need a different tool or is there another way to remove this cassette?

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Old 05-14-18, 09:31 PM
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Hold the tool on using the skewer. Once it's slightly loose, take the skewer out.
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Old 05-15-18, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by RockiesDad
The bike is around a '93 Specialized 7 speed. I'm trying to remove this cassette but not sure how. The removal tool does not fully drop into the cassette due to a lip or something just beneath the locking ring. With only about a 2mm drop into the locking ring the tool is very loose. Do I need a different tool or is there another way to remove this cassette?

Yes, you need a different tool. That's not a cassette lock ring tool you're using, it's a freewheel removal tool. The spline pattern is similar, but different enough not to be compatible. Get the right tool and you'll be in business.
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Old 05-15-18, 06:45 AM
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Yes, the right tool has a protruding rod that will insert into the quick release axle hole.
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Old 05-15-18, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by andrewclaus
Yes, the right tool has a protruding rod that will insert into the quick release axle hole.
Not necessarily. https://www.parktool.com/product/cas...ring-tool-fr-5
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Old 05-15-18, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ghrumpy
Yes, you need a different tool. That's not a cassette lock ring tool you're using, it's a freewheel removal tool. The spline pattern is similar, but different enough not to be compatible. Get the right tool and you'll be in business.
Dang, I need another tool???

Yeah they look the same but the diameters are slightly different. I wish they were all made the same...

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Old 05-15-18, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RockiesDad
Dang, I need another tool???

Yeah they look the same but the diameters are slightly different. I wish they were all made the same...
Be glad you don't work on vintage freewheel bikes.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-removers.html

FREEWHEEL REMOVERS
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Old 05-15-18, 03:01 PM
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Unless you are going to do it often, a bike shop might loosen it for you cheaper than getting a new tool or even free. Buy a pair of socks or something there to help them out.

You don't need a tool to put a freewheel on. The pedaling will tighten it plenty.
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Old 05-15-18, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Unless you are going to do it often, a bike shop might loosen it for you cheaper than getting a new tool or even free. Buy a pair of socks or something there to help them out.

You don't need a tool to put a freewheel on. The pedaling will tighten it plenty.
Just make darn sure the threads aren't crossed before you start torquing on it or you'll be back at the lbs.
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Old 05-15-18, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Unless you are going to do it often, a bike shop might loosen it for you cheaper than getting a new tool or even free. Buy a pair of socks or something there to help them out.

You don't need a tool to put a freewheel on. The pedaling will tighten it plenty.
OP has a cassette. It won't tighten itself on with riding.
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Old 05-15-18, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by RockiesDad
The bike is around a '93 Specialized 7 speed. I'm trying to remove this cassette but not sure how. The removal tool does not fully drop into the cassette due to a lip or something just beneath the locking ring. With only about a 2mm drop into the locking ring the tool is very loose. Do I need a different tool or is there another way to remove this cassette?

Lock ring tool only needs to go in far enough to engage the splines of the lock ring. What I can't tell if you have or not is a chain whip. Use a chain whip (basically a short length of chain attached to a pedal wrench or some other lever) to hold the cassette in place while you unscrew the lock ring using that tool and a pair of pliers. You can, if desperate enough, use something else to hold the cassette in place, but a chain whip is the proper tool and you may risk damaging teeth on the cogs with an improvised tool.
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Old 05-15-18, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
Originally Posted by Iride01
You don't need a tool to put a freewheel on. The pedaling will tighten it plenty.
OP has a cassette. It won't tighten itself on with riding.
Okay.....
Unless you are going to do it often, a bike shop might loosen it for you cheaper than getting a new tool or even free. Buy a pair of socks or something there to help them out.

Likewise go back and let them tighten the new cassette...... maybe you need more socks or new cup holder.
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Old 05-15-18, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Okay.....
Unless you are going to do it often, a bike shop might loosen it for you cheaper than getting a new tool or even free. Buy a pair of socks or something there to help them out.

Likewise go back and let them tighten the new cassette...... maybe you need more socks or new cup holder.
Totally agree on supporting your LBS if they're cool.
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Old 05-16-18, 05:38 AM
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If your local bike store is not cool (or you don't need socks) a chain whip and cassette removal tool is about $13 shipped on ebay. Good tools to have in your collection as cassettes are still used on all bikes today.
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Old 05-16-18, 12:11 PM
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Here's an alternative to the chain whip that I find easier to use:

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Old 05-16-18, 08:16 PM
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One more quick question... can I use any of the new 7-speed cassettes? Are they all interchangeable on my hub? Its a tri-color Shimano 600 with 127mm spacing. Thanks again...
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Old 05-16-18, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RockiesDad
One more quick question... can I use any of the new 7-speed cassettes? Are they all interchangeable on my hub? Its a tri-color Shimano 600 with 127mm spacing. Thanks again...
Yes. You have a 7-speed "Hyperglide" cassette. Hyperglide has been the "standard" style since 1992 or so. Any new 7-speed cassette will interchange.

(There are several gotchas if you want to make other modifications, such as 8 or 9-speed. 7-speed to 7-speed is no problem.)
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Old 05-16-18, 10:57 PM
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RockiesDad,

Not sure, if you have managed to change out your cassette yet already. But, I encountered the exact issue the other day in the shop. In the end, to help the customer, I removed the axle from the non-drive side so that I could seat the removal tool deep enough. Your drive side cone/lock nut basically has a washer in place that is too large of a diameter to allow your cassette removal tool to sit deep enough. Once you have the axle out, you can swap out that over sized washer with one that has a smaller outer diameter that won't prevent the tool sitting at the correct depth.

You can kind of just see the edges of the washer that I am talking about in your second picture. It is a ring behind the edges of the lock nut. If you do replace that washer, just make sure the outer diameter is small enough for the edges of the removal tool to pass by freely and that the thickness of the replacement washer is the same.

You might have luck if you put in a quick release skewer to hold the cassette removal tool in place. My customer's lock ring had a lot of corrosion and was not budging at all with that trick. Had to use a liberal application of penetrating oil even after the removal of his axle and having the removal tool seated all the way.
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Old 05-16-18, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Ghrumpy
Yes, you need a different tool. That's not a cassette lock ring tool you're using, it's a freewheel removal tool. The spline pattern is similar, but different enough not to be compatible. Get the right tool and you'll be in business.
Originally Posted by andrewclaus
Yes, the right tool has a protruding rod that will insert into the quick release axle hole.
Hi Ghrumpy and andrewclaus,

In the shop, freewheel/cassette removal tools are one and the same. There are loads of different designs and types of interfaces. For example, what if a customer came into the shop with a lower end bike that has a freehub but solid axle, if I only had the removal tool that has the protrusion to fit into the hollow axle, it actually means I won't be able to help them, unless I take the axle out of the hub.
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Old 05-17-18, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by *Scuba
RockiesDad,

Not sure, if you have managed to change out your cassette yet already. But, I encountered the exact issue the other day in the shop. In the end, to help the customer, I removed the axle from the non-drive side so that I could seat the removal tool deep enough. Your drive side cone/lock nut basically has a washer in place that is too large of a diameter to allow your cassette removal tool to sit deep enough. Once you have the axle out, you can swap out that over sized washer with one that has a smaller outer diameter that won't prevent the tool sitting at the correct depth.

You can kind of just see the edges of the washer that I am talking about in your second picture. It is a ring behind the edges of the lock nut. If you do replace that washer, just make sure the outer diameter is small enough for the edges of the removal tool to pass by freely and that the thickness of the replacement washer is the same.
Thanks for this suggestion but I already tried removing the axle and had the same problem of the tool not dropping all the way in. It seems that the washer is sitting right under the locking ring and not part of the axle. Plus my tool seemed a bit smaller than the locking ring thus was a sloppy fit.

Looking more into different tools I think there might be two different diameters for these locking rings. One size is Park Tool FR-5.2 which is 23.4mm and FR-1.3 which is 22.6mm. Both sizes are for Shimano. Got figure...

https://www.parktool.com/product/cas...ng-tool-fr-5-2
https://www.parktool.com/product/fre...remover-fr-1-3

I'm liking my LBS more and more. There is an old-school shop around here that might have this particular size tool. I might just go there and see what he says. I'll ever get the new cassette from him if he as one...
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Old 05-17-18, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by *Scuba
Hi Ghrumpy and andrewclaus,

In the shop, freewheel/cassette removal tools are one and the same. There are loads of different designs and types of interfaces. For example, what if a customer came into the shop with a lower end bike that has a freehub but solid axle, if I only had the removal tool that has the protrusion to fit into the hollow axle, it actually means I won't be able to help them, unless I take the axle out of the hub.
Thanks for that, but I'm more than familiar with freewheel removers. I've spent most of the last 25 years working in bike shops. My personal collection of freewheel removers is probably at least two dozen. I've modified removers to fit freewheels for which no remover can be readily found. And in all that time I can't think of any freewheel remover that works on any cassette lock ring.
There are two cassette lock ring "standards" of which I'm familiar. Shimano's and Campagnolo's. Shimano's cassette lock ring pattern is also used for some of their brake disc lock rings. Campagnolo's lock ring tool is also used to install and remover some of their square taper bottom brackets.

The lock ring tool with the hollow axle guide pin (Park FR-5.2G) has the same spline pattern as the one without (Park FR-5.2). I have both, and any decent shop should too. They only cost a few bucks. That being said, IME there are precious few solid axle hubs that use a freehub/cassette.

@RockiesDad , you need the Park FR-5.2, which as it says in the product description, is for cassette lock rings. It will not fit freewheels. As previously noted, you will also need a chain whip to hold the freehub from turning while you remove the lock ring.

The Park FR-1.3, as it says in the product description, is for freewheels. It will not fit cassette lock rings. You do not need that for this situation. Ignore the fact that they are both Shimano. Shimano have used three different multiple-freewheel removal interfaces over the years, and a different one for single-cog freewheels. None of them are compatible with their cassette lock ring interface.
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Old 05-17-18, 01:58 PM
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The axle has nothing to do with it @*Scuba. OP was trying to use the freewheel tool on a cassette lockring, and they're not compatible with each other. The FR-5 is the correct one for cassettes.
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Old 05-17-18, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
The axle has nothing to do with it @*Scuba. OP was trying to use the freewheel tool on a cassette lockring, and they're not compatible with each other. The FR-5 is the correct one for cassettes.
I've always used my Park FR-1 freewheel tool on my Shimano cassette lockrings. As above, it works fine if it's held on by the QR skewer. FWIW: the Campy cassette lockring tool also fits their cartridge bottom brackets.
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Old 05-17-18, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills
I've always used my Park FR-1 freewheel tool on my Shimano cassette lockrings. As above, it works fine if it's held on by the QR skewer. FWIW: the Campy cassette lockring tool also fits their cartridge bottom brackets.
Hmm, I went down into the basement to double-check my statement. I can't get my FR-5 into the splines of an MF-Z012 or MZ-TZ20 freewheel, nor can I get the FR-1 into any of my HG50 or HG70 (7-speed in all cases) lockrings. Did Park used to make these tools a little looser fit in the past or something?
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Old 05-18-18, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills
I've always used my Park FR-1 freewheel tool on my Shimano cassette lockrings. As above, it works fine if it's held on by the QR skewer.
Yikes. I would never recommend that; the spline width and diameter are different enough that something is likely to give when torquing down the lock ring. Why not just buy a lock ring tool? They're only like $5.

Originally Posted by Jeff Wills
FWIW: the Campy cassette lockring tool also fits their cartridge bottom brackets.
True! But not compatible with Shimano's freewheels or cassette lock rings. Might look like it, but you might end up sorry you tried it. They're easy to distinguish: The Campagnolo tool has a hole big enough to go over a BB spindle. The Shimano does not.
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