Vintage downtube shifters
#1
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Vintage downtube shifters
Sorry if this is the wrong forum but my question pertains to vintage DT shifters. If I am in the wrong forum please move this thread. Anyone know if 80s production Shimano silver arrow DT friction shifters perform well with a modern 10 speed cassette and a Sram mtb clutch derailleur? I want the ability to switch back and forth from SS on my Soma Wolverine (already has brazed on DT bosses) to a 1x10 for certain group rides etc. Not sure if the friction shifter will be able to hold the heavier spring tension especially if I hit bumps in the road. FWIW this bike was previously using this setup with a Sram double tap right shifter but the shifter broke so I went SS. I have several cassettes and 2 sets of vintage DT shifters hanging on the wall. Figured it would be super simple and quick to throw this on without messing with bar tape and buying a new shifter. Also super quick to switch back to SS.
Last edited by trail_monkey; 04-03-20 at 07:25 AM.
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These are made for 8, 9, 10 cassettes:
ENE DOWN TUBE SHIFTER | DIA-COMPE
I dunno if they work with your clutch derailleur. Maybe if you write dia compe, they will let you know? It's a darn good shifter.
ENE DOWN TUBE SHIFTER | DIA-COMPE
I dunno if they work with your clutch derailleur. Maybe if you write dia compe, they will let you know? It's a darn good shifter.
#3
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These are made for 8, 9, 10 cassettes:
ENE DOWN TUBE SHIFTER | DIA-COMPE
I dunno if they work with your clutch derailleur. Maybe if you write dia compe, they will let you know? It's a darn good shifter.
ENE DOWN TUBE SHIFTER | DIA-COMPE
I dunno if they work with your clutch derailleur. Maybe if you write dia compe, they will let you know? It's a darn good shifter.
#4
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Yes, they have enough travel to traverse an 8-9-10 speed cassette. They'll have to move quite a long way, but will do it.
Larger issue is whether they are the more common 4.5mm fixing bolts as I'm going to assume that the mounts on your frame are 5.0mm.
If so, you'll have to find some compatible 5mm bolts.
Larger issue is whether they are the more common 4.5mm fixing bolts as I'm going to assume that the mounts on your frame are 5.0mm.
If so, you'll have to find some compatible 5mm bolts.
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#5
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Yes, they have enough travel to traverse an 8-9-10 speed cassette. They'll have to move quite a long way, but will do it.
Larger issue is whether they are the more common 4.5mm fixing bolts as I'm going to assume that the mounts on your frame are 5.0mm.
If so, you'll have to find some compatible 5mm bolts.
Larger issue is whether they are the more common 4.5mm fixing bolts as I'm going to assume that the mounts on your frame are 5.0mm.
If so, you'll have to find some compatible 5mm bolts.
#6
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I thought I would end this thread with some results from some experimentation today. I got off work early due to the pandemic and I've been in my garage playing around with my old frame this afternoon. The friction shifters work just fine with everything from my modern Sram GX 10 speed clutch derailleur as well as my Shimano dyna-sys 10-speed derailleur. And just for the heck of it I tried them on and old-school mid-90s Deore 8 speed derailleur. It gets the job done with all of them through all 10 gears. And it has zero problem holding with the clutch derailleurs. It works better with the Sram GX derailleur as it requires less shifter movement for a given amount of travel. The Shimano dyna-sys derailleur took the most shifter travel to get the job done. All in all I'm satisfied.
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Very Cool!
For me, the limit of friction shifting is 8 speed. Beyond that and it got fussy (for me). A lot of folks happily friction shift 9 or 10. So, if on the bike in the real world, 10 speed requires too much attention, an 8 speed cassette might be perfect.
For me, the limit of friction shifting is 8 speed. Beyond that and it got fussy (for me). A lot of folks happily friction shift 9 or 10. So, if on the bike in the real world, 10 speed requires too much attention, an 8 speed cassette might be perfect.
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#8
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Something to consider.... The derailleur that moves the least amount per shifter travel should be the least finicky. Meaning subtle movements to the friction shifters mean less movement to the derailleur therefore more forgiving. For me that would have meant the Shimano dyna-sys but the Sram didn't require a 180 movement to get the job done and it still felt easy to maneuver
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Something to consider.... The derailleur that moves the least amount per shifter travel should be the least finicky. Meaning subtle movements to the friction shifters mean less movement to the derailleur therefore more forgiving. For me that would have meant the Shimano dyna-sys but the Sram didn't require a 180 movement to get the job done and it still felt easy to maneuver
Last edited by Kilroy1988; 04-03-20 at 04:35 PM.
#10
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It also means less play available on the shifter/derailleur position to stay in gear. On my five of six speeds I can have the shifter set within a few degrees of being perfectly aligned with the derailleur, and still be just fine. With more cogs and a slender chain you need to be precise.
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Thanks for coming back and closing the loop so the rest of us can benefit from your experience.
Brent
Brent
#12
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#13
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I shifted a Shimano 10 speed derailleur and cassette with Suntour friction down tube shifters on a SOMA Double Cross Disc. It took most all the available travel of the shifter, but it did shift. The problem I had was sometimes pedaling out of the saddle the frame flex would auto shift to a higher snugging up on the friction adjustment did not help hold the gear. I switched to indexed dura ace 10 speed down tube shifters and this bike shifts and holds great. Possibly the best shift performing bike I’ve ever ridden.
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Another data point - SunTour Superbe top mounted DT friction and Campy 9-speed and Campy Mirage RD works very well. Nearly 180 degrees used but shifting (for this lifelong DT guy) is sublime. I would have died for it 40 years ago!
And like the OP, I love the really quick setup and tear down. I go fix gear to gravel and back. Now I don't have shifter bosses but the clamp-on is pretty easy (and I love havnng a clean DT to brush when I am riding fix gear).
Ben
And like the OP, I love the really quick setup and tear down. I go fix gear to gravel and back. Now I don't have shifter bosses but the clamp-on is pretty easy (and I love havnng a clean DT to brush when I am riding fix gear).
Ben
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UH UM..... What is a 'clutch rear derailleur'? Any pics? Pics of your setup in general? 10 is way too many cogs for me, most of bikes are 7spd I don't live in the mountains or go super fast that is more than enough for me. Although the 8spd IGH with a triple for 24 gears is pretty cool.
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Bianchigirll - A clutch-type rear derailleur has a mechanism at the top of the cage that adds some resistance to the cage moving. This acts to keep better tension on the chain over rough terrain or when suspension movement results in chain growth or shrinkage. The clutch is engaged using a lever at the bottom knuckle.
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Bianchigirll - A clutch-type rear derailleur has a mechanism at the top of the cage that adds some resistance to the cage moving. This acts to keep better tension on the chain over rough terrain or when suspension movement results in chain growth or shrinkage. The clutch is engaged using a lever at the bottom knuckle.
#18
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I shifted a Shimano 10 speed derailleur and cassette with Suntour friction down tube shifters on a SOMA Double Cross Disc. It took most all the available travel of the shifter, but it did shift. The problem I had was sometimes pedaling out of the saddle the frame flex would auto shift to a higher snugging up on the friction adjustment did not help hold the gear. I switched to indexed dura ace 10 speed down tube shifters and this bike shifts and holds great. Possibly the best shift performing bike I’ve ever ridden.
As far as the travel, using the Shimano Dyna-sys clutch derailleur, it took all of 180 degrees and a little beyond. The shifter was actually a few degrees negative, or below the downtube in 10th gear. Using the Sram GX 10 speed clutch derailleur AND the vintage Shimano Deore mid 90s derailleur (came off a 1997 Mongoose MTB), I was able to do the full shift with the lever maybe 10-20 degrees "positive" or above the downtube if that makes sense. So maybe around 160 degrees movement?
Another data point - SunTour Superbe top mounted DT friction and Campy 9-speed and Campy Mirage RD works very well. Nearly 180 degrees used but shifting (for this lifelong DT guy) is sublime. I would have died for it 40 years ago!
And like the OP, I love the really quick setup and tear down. I go fix gear to gravel and back. Now I don't have shifter bosses but the clamp-on is pretty easy (and I love havnng a clean DT to brush when I am riding fix gear).
Ben
And like the OP, I love the really quick setup and tear down. I go fix gear to gravel and back. Now I don't have shifter bosses but the clamp-on is pretty easy (and I love havnng a clean DT to brush when I am riding fix gear).
Ben
UH UM..... What is a 'clutch rear derailleur'? Any pics? Pics of your setup in general? 10 is way too many cogs for me, most of bikes are 7spd I don't live in the mountains or go super fast that is more than enough for me. Although the 8spd IGH with a triple for 24 gears is pretty cool.
Last edited by trail_monkey; 04-04-20 at 06:57 AM.
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OH it's a drag like a fishing reel.
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
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Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk