branko_76 

I just broke-down a pair of 1977 Normandy hubs from a Raleigh Grand Prix. The races are in perfect shape, no pitting, rust, etc. The cones on the other hand are deeply pitted from wear and probably impact. Are there any good quality replacement cones available?

The front axle is 11/32" diameter with 3/16" bearings and the rear axle is 3/8" diameter with 1/4" bearings.

verktyg 

Unless somebody replaced them with the wrong size inch dimensioned axles and cones, they're metric.

Normandy Sport Hubs from that era:
Quick Release Front - 9mm x 1.0mm
Quick Release Rear - 10mm x 1.0mm

Also the front hubs may be 96mm wide vs. the standard 100mm and the rear 122mm vs. 120mm. Those were the French bātard standard OLN (over lock nut) widths.



We used to import a lot of French stuff in the 1970's. We got the Normandy Sport cones in bags of 50. They cost us about $0.05 each. We'd inspect them all and throw at least a third away because of factory defects. We sold them for $0.50 retail and wholesale to cover our costs.



The cones were cheap, case hardened parts that were made on screw machines and then heat treated. The dark zone on these test samples shows the depth of the hardened area which can range from ~0.005" to 0.050" (0.13mm to 1.3mm). Cones with a shallow "case" wore out fast. Frequently those Normandy hubs came from the factory over tightened which resulted in damage to the ball tracks.


Occasionally you can find complete Normandy axles on eBay. That's sometimes the easiest way to get replacement cones.



Another source is old Schwinn dealers. Normandy hubs were used on Schwinns for years. You could also look for some donor wheels with Normandy hubs but the bearings may be shot on those too.

Wheels Manufacturing is another possibility... They don't make replacement cones for Normandy hubs but they may have something to fit. They are currently closed for the duration of the COVID-19 pandemic.

BITD, I rebuilt hundreds of Normandy hubs. A few months back I overhauled a set of wheels with those hubs, first time in maybe 40 years. I was able to find some front cones at a LBS. The cups on one side of the rear hub had some pitting along with the cones. It wasn't too bad so I just switched sides on the cones. New high quality bearings smoothed things out.

Good luck....

verktyg

branko_76 

Awesome! Thank you Chas for that informative post.

of course, metric. I should have known since I had to round out the measurements to the nearest fraction. That will help me source some replacements.

verktyg 

branko_76 If you don't find the correct cones, you can probably find some with the correct or close to correct profile but a smaller diameter or longer length.

If the gap between the cone and the dust shield is too big, you can use rubber O-rings to keep dirt out. You can get these in the plumbing department of many hardware stores like Ace.




verktyg

Salamandrine 

Everthing verktyg said is pretty spot on. Normandy cones were kind of mezzo mezzo quality wise. BITD nearly every shop had a drawer full of replacement cones. The Normandy hubs were the cheap but decent generic hub of their time, and were very common. It's possible you might still find some in stock at any bike shop that's been in business since the 70s. Less of those around these days, plus it's been decades.

Just FYI cones always wear out before the races. I'd expect to replace the cones at least a couple times before the hub races start to pit, assuming everything is properly maintained -- and the bike is ridden enough to generate that kind of wear...

I'd just like to add that this is one of those many time that a micrometer is invaluable. I'd be inclined to measure all dimensions and pick up some new cones from Wheels MFG that are close enough.

daviddavieboy

I don't know a lot about them but I have noticed that there is a difference in the cones as well. Some of them are bright and shiny as in the picture with the package of 5 and some are black. I would assume that this would mean some are hardened and some are not? Maybe verktyg could shed some light. I have a few sets of these on various bikes and spares as well that I cannibalized for races. IMO the large flange are just as pretty as any campy offering.

verktyg 

Sharp eyes...

I was going to mention that the silver ones, (probably cadmium plated) are better quality and were produced in the late 70's and early 80's but I didn't want to go into information overload (in other words I was feeling lazy).

They have the Maillard name on the package.

verktyg

daviddavieboy

DANG I thought they were the crappy ones and put them in the bottom of the junk box. When / if I rebuild the next ones I will be using them.

dmark 

Yup; me too.

branko_76 

Yes, mine are black and extremely pitted. I have a parts bin of cones, axles and bearings with some silver cones and they are perfect.

verktyg 

BTW, you should check out your Normandy axles. They were soft and tended to bend from riding over curbs. Roll them on a good flat surface.

verktyg

branko_76 

Will do

Classtime 

Since cones on the Normandy hubs are an issue, is it likely that the cones on my Normandy hubbed Motobecane were replaced with non-Normandy cones and that is why the flats of the cones are buried in the dust cap? I have tapped the dust caps down further than should be necessary and they are gonna be a bear to pop out again.

branko_76 

I'm wondering if maybe the bearings are too small, just a thought.

branko_76 

Going thru my stash, I found some "Schwinn Approved" Made In France hubs, high and low flange with solid axles. Thought I'd use the cones from them but discovered that the solid axles are just a smidge smaller in diameter than the hollow QR axles.

T-Mar

Selecting cones is more than a matter of matching threading, diameter and length. The other very critical aspect is the profile of the cone race itself, which is designed to complement the profile of the cup race and provide a a specific load angle when used with the correct bearing size. Incorrect cones can provide load angles that result in too much radial or lateral loading, both of which cause premature wear and make proper adjustment difficult.

The test for replacements is to insert a greased cone into the hub and spin it. The cone doesn't have to be on an axle. Carefully remove the cone and examine where the bearing track has been imprinted in the grease. Ideally, the bearing track should be half-way up the cone race. If the bearing track is notably above or below the centre of the cone race, it should not be used.

agnewton

Thank you for the useful discussion on the Normandy hubs. Wish I would have read this before I started on my first wheel building project. I, too, liked the look of the High-flange Normandy Hubs. So, I decided to use an on-hand pair of hubs thinking that if the project went sideways, I wouldn't have ruined anything too valuable. The front hub cleaned up nice and the bearings were smooth. Then, the project began to snow-ball. And confirmed everything that verktyg wrote.

The rear axle was bent. I replaced it. The rear cones were pitted. So, I looked into replacements from Wheels Mfg. The Wheels cone that had dimensions closest to the original Normandy hubs (H= 12.2 mm; 17.6 mm dia.) was Wheels Mfg. P/N: CN-R081 (H= 13.9 mm; 16.98 dia). I ordered a pair, greased the cone, and checked the bearing track asadvised by T-Mar . It looks OK to me (pics below), but I'm not an unbiased opinion. Maybe a tad to the inside of center (?).

Can anyone with more experience than me offer an opinion?


Bearing tracks

oneclick 

The main load the bearing carries is perpendicular to the axle. The load angle referred to above is usually biased towards this load, so a ball track a little too far up the curve is worse that a little to far down. The problem with too far down is that the cone may be so thin there that the edges will crack off (some Atom pedals have this problem just because their cones are altogether so small).

Those tracks look good enough to me that I'd ride them; after enough to show a bright line pull one and look just to check.

And those cones look better than ANY Normandy ones I've seen, even new. Hurts to think how many otherwise perfectly good hubs failed and were junked.

agnewton

Thank you oneclick . I had hoped the cones would be OK enough to proceed. The Wheels Mfg. website didn't list those cones as replacements for Normandy hubs; so a second opinion provides some reassurance. I didn't want to finish building up the wheels and have chronic issues with the cones. I'll order the spokes, build up the wheels, and ride them until I can double-check the actual wear line. Thanks again.