rmball28

I am considering going on the ACA Southern tier tour in 2021. I cannot however find any reviews on that ride or on ACA tours in general. Does anyone here have any experience with their tours? It would be one of the van supported type.

indyfabz

My first ever tour was their unsupported Northern Tier tour. I also did their supported Green Mountains tour in VT. I’ve also crossed paths with supported Cycle Montana twice, camping at the same location one of those times.

I think the tours are well run. A supported trip allows you to better insulate yourself from people you could do without since the groups are larger and you don’t have to share shopping and cooking duties. Although I could be mistaken. IIRC, they offer two levels of support: Van Supported and Fully Supported. The former may involve shared cooking duties. I just don’t remember the difference between the two, but the differences are explained on their website.

Have you ever done a group tour? There are some things you will need to be able to deal with, like snorers and the occasional pouter/whiner.

GeorgeBaby

I've done 4 ACA tours, although they've all been short (1 week or so). I enjoy them, in general, but am not fond of the shared cooking part. I'd prefer to just make my own meal, rather than cook for a dozen+ people. The leaders are good, and the tour participants have also been fine, in my experience. Personalities could become an issue on the major trips, such as the Southern Tier.

Tourist in MSN

I have done two ACA trips, each was a week long. One was self supported (Glacier Waterton Loop) and one was van supported (Big Bend).

The guides vary, some are great and some less so. Southern Tier is a LONG trip, longer than a week. Thus, if you have any in your group that you wish were not there, it could become inconvenient.

Van supported means you carry your lunch and water, maybe rain gear and possibly other clothing on the bike. Everything else is in the van. If you have a mechanical or are injured, you should be able to ride in the van. But they do not consider it a sag wagon, you are expected to ride. One day on the van supported trip I took, there were massive headwinds, for that one day the ACA guides gave us an option to ride or not and only one third of the group rode and the riders only rode about a third of the distance, thus it was nice to have the van that day.

A friend of mine did Norther Tier wtih ACA, unsupported. Before that he did another cross country ride with them, is there a middle tier? That was also unsupported. And he did Pacific Coast with them, van supported. On his Pacific Coast trip his bike broke, he was injured, then he rode in the van for a few days until he could buy a replacement fork for his bike when he started riding with them again.

They split you up into food groups, you do your share of cooking and cleanup about once a week.

Don't start it with a bike that is out of condition or poorly adjusted, they will not fix it for you. I made the mistake of saying I used to work at a bike shop several decades ago. During one week, roughly one third of the group wanted me to fix their bike for them. If I was doing southern tier, I would start with brake pads, a chain and cassette that had no more than a hundred miles on them. You want a few miles on new parts to make sure all the parts play well with each other but you should start with a lot of newer expendibles. Disc brake pads vary from bike to bike, I would bring a set of replacement pads too.

You supply your own tent. Bring a two person tent, you do not have to carry it on your bike so there is no need to take a smaller one person tent, a good two person tent gives you room for you and your gear. Southern Tier would mean you are in that tent a lot of nights, so bring a good tent that you would be happy with for dozens of nights, and a good sleeping pad or air mattress.

In the southwest, a friend of mine had lots of flats when doing van supported Southern Tier, he said he had 7 flats in one day. But most of the others in that group had fewer flats. If I was doing southern tier, I would bring tires that have good flat protection but also are good rolling tires. And I would bring two tubes on the bike with a good patch kit.

I will not do any more ACA trips but that is because I have some specific dietary issues. ACA will accommodate vegetarians and they will try to accommodate those with allergies, but I can't eat the carb loading food that most meals are. But that is me. If you can eat the typical american diet, it should work for you. Most meals are one pot meals.

Have a great time.

rmball28

Have you ever done a group tour? There are some things you will need to be able to deal with, like snorers and the occasional pouter/whiner.[/QUOTE]


Mostly I have toured solo, but I did RAGBRAI one year with 20,000 of my closest friends and it was OK.

rmball28

Thank you all for your input. It would be a big commitment and any bit of information helps in the decision making process.

indyfabz

So I just looked up Van Supported. You share shopping and cooking duties. And while there is a tool kit, there is no mechanic that travels with the tour. Basically sounds like my unsupported trip but with gear transport. Also, if there is no grocery store at the day’s campsite they must drive you because you don’t have panniers to carry food.

https://www.adventurecycling.org/gui...pported-tours/

Because there were 13 of us, you and a partner were basically were on shopping/cooking detail once/week. That included doing shared gear dishes, like pots and pans. For health reasons, each participant had to wash his/her own personal plates, utensils, etc.

Cycle Montana and Cycle Vermont were both fully supported. Breakfasts and Dinners were catered, and there was stuff each morning to make your lunch, which was transported for you to a designated lunch stop. There was also a mechanic.

Tourist in MSN

The van supported trip I was on, they had a good work stand, but the tool kit was not even minimal. I mostly used my own tools when working on other bikes. Since it was van supported and weight was not a big issue (the van carried my tool kit), I brought a better tool kit than i would have carried if the tools were in a pannier.

They had a pretty good kitchen setup that they carried in the trailer.

There were two guides in the van supported trip I took, one rode drag and the other drove the van. (Riding drag was my term, I do not recall what they called it but one of the guides followed the last rider to make sure they all made it.)

They also had a satellite phone in the van, thus if there was no cell coverage they did have communication in event of emergency.



The morning I took this photo was sub-freezing, so if we look chilly, we were.

The red bin on the right was full of folding chairs, on the left they had a propane stove cooking away, a couple folding tables set up with our food, etc. The van supported groups carry more stuff than you do when you have all your stuff in panniers.

The van supported trip I took (Big Bend) started with a couple hour long shuttle ride, thus we all rode in the van, below. Luggage and cooking gear in the trailer. Personal luggage, they wanted us to have no more than two small bags, I do not recall what their recommended luggage size was.



Most of the people rode on skinny tire road bikes on this trip because van supported trips seem to attract the riders that do not want to haul a lot of gear on their bike. I brought my folding bike because it flew on the plane with me for free.

The West Texas chip seal pavement can be pretty rough, I was glad my bike had 40m wide tires. If I had a 700c bike, I think I would have wanted 32 mm or wider on those roads. Maybe 28, but nothing narrower.

This trip (Big Bend) was where it rarely rains and was only a week, I think nobody had fenders. If I was going to do Southern Tier on a van supported trip, I would have to choose between my Lynskey (light touring, 37mm tires) or my Velo Orange (my rando bike, 32mm tires). Both have fenders, both are 700c, both have triple cranks, both are comfortable for distance.

Tourist in MSN

You will have out of pocket expenses too. ACA funds can't be used for alcohol. You might need a new chain and maybe a cassette half way. Possibly some repairs at a bike shop. Plus, camping gear can wear out, souvenirs, etc. So, budget accordingly.

rmball28

Is your folder a Bike Friday? I have a Diamond Llama but I wasn't really thinking of it for this trip. I am leaning towards a Lynskey Urbano with triple crankset and 35mm tubeless tires the other contenders are a Surly disc trucker or even a Motobecane road bike

Tourist in MSN

For Southern Tier, I think the Lynskey would work great. I have no clue how yours is configured, but I am assuming you set it up with the kinds of parts that you would want for long days in the saddle. My Lynskey Backroad is probably a similar frame to yours, but mine I think has more metal and larger diameter tubing in a few places because they designed mine to take a heavier load. Some photos of mine at this post:
https://www.bikeforums.net/20160286-post32.html

Motobecane, I have no knowlege of it and I do not know their line of models. So, no opinion.

My folder has 24 inch wheels, Airnimal Joey. For Big Bend, it had the advantage of being able to take it on the plane for free (Southwest Air, two free checked bags that are 62 or less inches). And that was a week long trip, if I decided that it was the wrong bike for the trip, it was only a week so no big loss. I had owned that bike for over a decade but had not really ridden it very much so part of my bringing it was curiosity. And also I was considering taking it on a trip on Amtrak and folding bikes can be taken on Amtrak as a carry on, so the Big Bend was an opportunity to ride that bike for several hundred miles to see what I thought of it. More on my folder here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/20336169-post735.html

Southern Tier, I think the priority is what bike would you be happiest riding for a couple of months, packability is much less of an issue. If I had a Bike Friday, I would leave it home and take a 700c bike. As I noted in my other post, I would either bring my Lynskey or my rando bike, they both would work well for long days followed by more long days. I built up both of them from parts, so I know how they are put together in the event one needs some work on a long trip.

I have zero experience with tubeless tires. But since mountain bikers use them where there are lots of thorns, maybe the tubeless tires would work well in the southwest where one of my friends had lots of flats when he rode Southern Tier.

On your Lynskey, if you have replaceable dropouts in the back, note my comments on locktite at this post:
https://www.bikeforums.net/20501510-post6.html

You really do not want those little 4mm screws to loosen up from vibration. I use the term locktite as a generic term for threadlockers, other brands work well too. I have used different brands over the years, this is what I bought last time.
https://www.truevalue.com/6-ml-remov...hread-locker-1

indyfabz

+1. So true. We had a relatively hearty drinking crew (some of us, anyway) for my 93 day unsupported trip. Those who drank took turns buying.

And there were the second breakfasts and ice cream treats. Optional motels when it was sweltering out were another expense for those who could afford it.

And don’t get me started on the mechanicals. One guy rode into a pothole the dimensions of a cinder block and twisted both wheels. He limped to our rest day and had to replace both. I had to replace a wheel, my cassette and chain and tires. But again, I was riding fully loaded.

After the trip was over I started riding home from Maine. My tent zipper crapped out the first night and I got skeeters inside. Had to stop by Bean in Freeport to buy a new one.

But the point is, if you expect to plop down your tour fee and not open your wallet you are going to be in for a shock.

Tourist in MSN

Since my two ACA trips were only a week long, it is hard for me to judge. That friend of mine that I mentioned above needed a new fork, he also needed a new rear wheel on that same trip.

On my month long solo trips where I am buying all my food and drink, I do not keep a separate budget for this sort of thing.

indyfabz

One year on Cycle Oregon, which is one week, a guy got an entirely new cassette to give him a lower gear range the day before we did Crater Lake. Another year a “Sherpa” driving an ATV ran over someone’s rear wheel and destroyed it. The mechanics were able to replace it. With over 2,000 people, the mechanics prepare for everything because they’ve seen everything.

A couple of times I was determined to track spending on two-week solo tours. Never made it beyond the second day. Too tedious.

I’m a milkshake guy myself. Huckleberry if available.

Tourist in MSN

On my four or five week tours, post-trip I add up my pre-trip costs (airline, maybe lodging reservations, maybe one or two other items), and everything during the pertinent dates on the calendar on my credit card(s) bills. Also add any cash withdrawals at ATMs on debit card. Take the sum, it is usually pretty close. I do not bother comparing amount of cash in my pocket pre- and post-trip.

I would go nuts if I was adding up every expense during the trip.



Someone always asks what my trip costs, I usually try to come up with an answer that is within 10 percent.

Below, I had no idea that Nova Scotia had a 15 percent sales tax until the first day of my tour.

robow

I have never taken part of an ACA tour but I have done a self supported tour where two of the six riders were employed as guides by the ACA for cross country tours. One of the fellows was just excellent and I very much enjoyed our 7-10 days together but the other.......let's just say if he had headed up my cross country group, I would have kept my distance at best and at worst probably let the air out of his tires on a regular basis : ) So I'm sure such a ride would be dependent on the participants involved and the leader's people skills.

Tourist in MSN

One more thing, above in post 11, I included a link to photos of my folder. That photo was taken when I was on the week long ACA trip. You will note that I had a handlebar bag and a saddle bag. I also had two water bottles on the bike with a liter in each. And a real small little bag behind the seatpost with my spare tube, tire tools, etc. I also had two half liter thermos bottles in the saddle bag with coffee.

If I was doing a van supported coast to coast tour, I would probably bring the same handlebar and saddle bag. My saddle bag has room for rain gear, extra water, lunch, clothing if I shed layers during the day, bike lock, etc. Handlebar bag has my valuables (I take that into grocery stores and restaurants with me), power bank, phone, small first aid kit, some granola bars, sun screen, reading glasses, spare batteries for my GPS and taillights, a lighter color pair of glasses to wear on the bike in rain or fog instead of sunglasses, camera, multi-tool, and anything else I might think could be important to have, etc.

Most of the other riders probably would not want to carry that much, but I try to be prepared.

My point is that if you go coast to coast on a van supported trip, think about what you might want to carry on the bike and how you would carry it each day.

I also loaded the route into my GPS when I was still at home, so I did not have to read trip sheets on where to turn, etc. Some people don't bother with that much detail, but I am a retired geological engineer, i worked with maps every day of my professional career so I get a bit obsessive on things like maps and knowing where I am. You should think about whether or not you want to invest in a GPS if you do not have one yet. GPS units take some time to figure out their capabilities and the best way to use them, so if you get one you should plan on spending some quality time with it before the trip.

indyfabz

Now you’ve done it. During our Northern Tier trip we voted our lone leader “off the island.” He was, to put it bluntly, inept at many things. One interesting facet was that the older people in the group expected better from someone in his position, while the four twenty somethings were pretty much like “whatever.” Though one cold, wet day his bungled directions to our host’s house outside of Sandpoint, ID, brought one of them to tears. His replacement was awesome, but due to a prior commitment, he couldn’t finish. His replacement, who is a contributing member of this forum, was equally great and took us the rest of the way.

So...Yes. People skills, along with logistical skills and sound decision making skills, are critical.

The difference in the OP’s case is that for van supported tours, there is likely more than one leader. Though I could be wrong.

robow

Both these gentlemen told me that it was not uncommon to change ride leaders at the half way point on these longer tours but I don't know if that is still the case.

indyfabz

A group member volunteered to be a liaison with ACA. She relayed our complaints. We were each eventually asked to call the office to cast out “vote.” I remember standing in a phone booth in Twin Isle, MN, on a cold, wet morning and doing so.

The backside of the story is that the leader was a last minute selection. The original chosen leader bagged. His/her replacement bagged shortly before the tour was supposed to start. We ended up with who on the list was available. You had to have taken the leadership training course to be eligible.

Tourist in MSN

Regarding the guides:

On my two ACA trips, first trip was unsupported, we carried our gear on the bikes. Prior to the trip, the e-mails suggested two guides. But when we gathered, there was one guide who also brought his wife along. And there were times that I asked a question and he was clueless about the answer. In one case he stated that there would be showers at teh campground, I said I had been there a week earlier and there were no showers there and he told everyone that I was wrong. When we got there, there were no showers. And his wife was paid as a second guide. Nothing really bad happened on this trip, I would say that the guide was adequate. But I later learned that there were certain things that their guides must follow according to ACA procedures that he did chose to skip.

My second ACA trip, van supported trip, both guides were great. One drove the van each day, the other rode drag to make sure everyone made it. I can't say enough good things about the two guides.

In the first case, the guide could have made the trip a better experience if he tried, but he certainly was not worth replacing and I had a good trip. And my second trip, the guides were fantastic and went out of their way to make the trip better.

I mentioned above that I will not go on an ACA trip again, their one pot carb loading meals are a serious problem for me medically, but if it was not for medical issues I would consider another trip with them.

indyfabz

I could crash this site with stories of our unsupported guide’s screwups. They started on the second day. I and another guy arrived at camp first. Went to check in and discovered that he had not told the state park the size of the group and thus the reservation was for a group of sites that were way too small. Fortunately, the group site was not occupied.

The next day we were told there was a grocery store near the campground. There was not. After setting up camp the two cookers had to ride 16 miles round trip to a town with a store. I went with them to help with the load.

A couple in Sandpoint, ID, had for years hosted the tour during a rest day because there was no campground close to town. Not only did the guide give us bad directions to the couple’s house (We had the phone number and I ended up calling from a county prison when I couldn’t find the place.), we arrived a day before he told the couple we would. He then pressured the couple to let us sleep inside their smallish house instead of camping in their spacious yard. (They had a pre-teen daughter.) Something else happened, the details of which I never learned, but it was serious enough that the couple stopped hosting the tour after our visit. I learned this because the following year I ran into the tour in Sandpoint and asked a member if they were staying with the couple. He told me the couple had stopped hosting because of last year’s group.

At least twice we arrived at camp only to be asked “What’s up with your leader?” He had pestered the owners for discounts, probably to stay within the average daily camping budget, which was $5/person back then.

I’ll stop there.

Tourist in MSN

I was going to give a short story similar to this topic, but decided not to as it might sound like ACA guides are worse than they really are. I think only a few are not so good.

I mentioned above that there were two guides that were fantastic on a van supported trip I was on. I roomed with one of the guides for two nights where we stayed in motels, both nights I was asleep before he went to bed and both times he was out with the cooks for breakfast before i woke up. It was very rare when I saw either of them not working, I mentioned above that one of them always came in behind the last rider to make sure that the last rider makes it, that meant that one of them got to the campsite late enough that there already was a list of things for him or her to do, so they did not even have much private time to themselves to set up their tent and get cleaned up. I think they both put in at least 14 hour days on average. And I stayed at the same motel as the guides for a day before the trip, I saw the guides out in the parking lot for much of the day going through all the cooking gear and other community gear to make sure it all worked and was complete. That day they also hit the grocery store for a day worth of food before the food groups took over.

I mentioned that on my other trip that the guide was not so good. I overheard him say to someone that he really liked being a guide for ACA because he and his wife could get paid to go on vacation. And that was how he treated it, he only put in a couple hours of work each day. I think it highly unlikely that you would ever see them on a cross country trip, he and his wife were only doing this for week long trips.

jmgardner 

I was on a one week, van supported (group cook/clean) ACA tour up the Nathez Trace... so my experiences with that tour don't relate very well other than to say a similar thing to what a few have already said "It takes skill to get along with people and the guides".
Our guides were "OK" most of the time with flashes of "Greatness" tempered with flashes of "WHT?!?!"
They were horrible with telling us how to get to the campgrounds almost every day. Each day we'd have a couple people arrive really late because the instructions give to us once we left the main route never contained enough detail.
They did drive the van to and do all the grocery shopping from lists that our cooks provided. They drove the van every day to a predetermined lunch spot and pulled out the food for us to make lunch.
They allowed us the flexibility to leave the main route and visit some places of interest as long as we communicated that intention to them.
As a group we ate at a couple of restaurants for dinner and they paid from ACA budget. We stayed at at least one hotel as part of the trip cost. Lesson: Some trips cost more on a 'per day' basis and that's probably why.
I get that they can't be mechanics and I was cool with that. But to offset that it seems like they should carry a "ACA Tour Guide Notebook" that has details of the towns you pass or go through, they weren't too aware of our surroundings and cell phone internet was really, really bad on most days.
It seems to me that ACA has a commitment to make sure everyone enjoys the trip and the example above about changing guides is a good example of it.
I like ACA and would be glad to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have looked into other trips and they seem a little more luxurious but more expensive at the same time.
Before my ACA ride I rafted the Grand Canyon on a similar trip with similar experiences, so I knew what was coming from the group dynamic and that being said a bike ride has a lot more chances to get off by yourself! ... it's a skill to learn to get along with a group, and I'm not that good at it but that being said ACA did fine by me. I would suggest you take the trip !
Let us know how it goes ! ! !

Juan Foote

OP, I don't know if you have come across Crazy Guy On A Bike yet. There are loads of blogs there detailing peoples experience both with the routes as well as tours. Check it out.