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11 speed mountain HG cassette w/ road ratios sought

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11 speed mountain HG cassette w/ road ratios sought

Old 11-26-19, 11:35 AM
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masi61
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11 speed mountain HG cassette w/ road ratios sought

So I have this beautiful 12x142 Industry 9 Torch 6 bolt disc rear hub that I got marked down and now want to use for my road 12 x 142 disc wheel build. I was operating under the assumption that I could retrofit the Torch road 11 speed HG freehub body onto this and make an easy road conversion.

I just talked to Industry 9 service line and they advised that what I have is the Torch mountain hub which has different dimensions than the Torch disc road hub and is therefore not possible for the above retrofit.

And that is fine because I believe I have a few other options for my disc through axle road bike build.

1) would be to go with a Shimano Ultegra level 11 speed cassette designed to run on 10 speed road freehub bodies: The Ultegra CS-HG800 11-34 cassette which is apparently designed for just such situations. I may just go this route for simplicityís sake but I didnít really plan on needing such wide ratios. If I go this route, Iíll have to just run a traditional 53/39 crankset with a GS 11-speed rear derailleur. I like to climb but this is a lightweight road bike and donít really need to go that low in the geraring department.

2) 2nd option involves just running a 10 speed road cassette. This is also doable but a bit counter to current parts availability for hydraulic disc road bikes. My titanium disc frame has internal routing for the (hydraulic) brake lines so I most definitely want to run hydraulic brakes. I see where the new Shimano GRX gravel components come in a 2x10 variant. This is not the top line GRX variant and maybe this version is more for OEM gravel bikes built to a certain price point. Nevertheless, I prefer this option over option #1 above since I can run a 12/25 tight ratio 10 speed cassette for my moderate hill climb road riding. And, I still get the hydraulic disc brake functionality with STI levers (aka ďbriftersĒ) that I desire.

3) just curious if anyone knows if there are other 11 speed mountain cassette options that permit me to select from tighter ratios on the cassette cogs. I would love it if I could get a Deore XT-8000 11 speed cassette in ratios more in keeping with road use such as a 12-28 11 speed. Are there any other manufacturers of mountain 11 speed cassettes where the cassette cog selection is customizable or more road friendly?

Thanks! ) I appreciate you all. I welcome any new angles on solving this riddle that Iím not yet considering.

Last edited by masi61; 11-26-19 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 11-26-19, 12:46 PM
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I would just use any Shimano road cassette - 12-25, 11-25, 11-28, whatever. Might need a B screw adjustment for snappier shifting. If you think about the fact that many of the cogs in an 11-34 cassette are already used in a tighter cassette, the system will still shift. It's not like going the other way and trying an 11-34 on a system - chain length and rear derailer capacity designed for a road cassette.
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Old 11-26-19, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
I would just use any Shimano road cassette - 12-25, 11-25, 11-28, whatever. Might need a B screw adjustment for snappier shifting. If you think about the fact that many of the cogs in an 11-34 cassette are already used in a tighter cassette, the system will still shift. It's not like going the other way and trying an 11-34 on a system - chain length and rear derailer capacity designed for a road cassette.
Thanks for your reply - I understand what you are saying but I cannot run an 11 speed road cassette with this Torch Mountain hub. So I will probably get the GRX 400 shifters and run 2x10.
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Old 11-26-19, 01:07 PM
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I'm not savvy to Industry 9, but swapping end caps to go to/from 130mm to 135mm & back again or quick release to thru axle happens often enough to check to see if an endcap swap could get you where you want to be. I once swapped caps on some Vision Metron 40's to get QR compatibility and a Powertap road hub so I could use it on a mountain bike.

I would think in this day & age, a non-driveside end cap should be a non-issue. But you never know. It could be as simple as asking the right question.


As far as cassettes: 11 speed mountain cassette on an 11 speed road body needs a spacer behind the cassette. Going the other way might be more complicated...I don't think an 11 speed road cassette will fit on a mountain body with out machining out a clearance on the big cog carrier. It would be simple to do with the right equipment (lathe)

Is there an I9 freehub body of the same style you could just buy? Surely a minimum of inventory & a maximum of part interchangability would streamline their operations & make business sense. Download some dealer service manuals & keep an eye on part numbers. Then order by part number. You can find lots that way.

Last edited by base2; 11-26-19 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 11-26-19, 01:10 PM
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Here's a pricey option: https://darkspeedworks.com/blog-11speed.htm
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Old 11-26-19, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GrainBrain View Post
Dude! You got me during an edit. Kudos to you. Also dropping the 14 tooth cog is genius. Thanks for the tip!
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Old 11-26-19, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
I'm not savvy to Industry 9, but swapping end caps to go to/from 130mm to 135mm & back again or quick release to thru axle happens often enough to check to see if an endcap swap could get you where you want to be. I once swapped caps on some Vision Metron 40's to get QR compatibility and a Powertap road hub so I could use it on a mountain bike.

I would think in this day & age, a non-driveside end cap should be a non-issue. But you never know. It could be as simple as asking the right question.


As far as cassettes: 11 speed mountain cassette on an 11 speed road body needs a spacer behind the cassette. Going the other way might be more complicated...I don't think an 11 speed road cassette will fit on a mountain body with out machining out a clearance on the big cog carrier. It would be simple to do with the right equipment (lathe)

Is there an I9 freehub body of the same style you could just buy? Surely a minimum of inventory & a maximum of part interchangability would streamline their operations & make business sense. Download some dealer service manuals & keep an eye on part numbers. Then order by part number. You can find lots that way.

Thanks for your reply. I spoke with industry 9 today and they said the mountain Torch hub is not able to be converted to road 11 speed. I thought the same thing that you are saying that it would just be a matter of swapping some end caps, spacers and freehub body but they said ďnoĒ.

Also, Iím proposing running an 11 speed mountain casssette on the mountain 11/road 10 speed steel I9 freehub body.

Since I already purchased the rear hub from Colorado Cyclist on clearance my option might be to re-sell it on eBay and just purchase the newer road disc one. But really, at this point Iím leading toward running road 10 speed hydraulic disc. Iíd like to have the integrated Shimano hydraulic disc 10speed levers but I suppose I could also use something like TRP hydraulic disc aero brake levers and just run 10 speed bar end shifters.
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Old 11-26-19, 03:43 PM
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The Shimano-style freehub on MTB's for 11 and 12 speed cassettes (SRAM NX and SX, Shimano M7000 & M8000) is still the same as the 8-9-10 speed hub. The width for the extra 11th-12th low gears is made available by hanging them off the spider inboard. If that biggest cog were smaller, there's more risk of the derailleur running into the spokes.

You could try running ten of 11 cogs from a road cassette on the MTB hub. Might need a spacer.
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Old 11-27-19, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
The Shimano-style freehub on MTB's for 11 and 12 speed cassettes (SRAM NX and SX, Shimano M7000 & M8000) is still the same as the 8-9-10 speed hub. The width for the extra 11th-12th low gears is made available by hanging them off the spider inboard. If that biggest cog were smaller, there's more risk of the derailleur running into the spokes.

You could try running ten of 11 cogs from a road cassette on the MTB hub. Might need a spacer.
Well, I can run a regular 10 speed road cassette fine. I'm wanting to have everything be "plug-n-play" so to speak. I may need to ask in the gravel forum about suitable 10 speed road hydraulic disc shifters. I know that the SRAM 1st gen E-tap had hydraulic road in 10 speed but I am uncertain if they functioned correctly following the initial recall for un-reliability issues.
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Old 11-27-19, 07:04 PM
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Shimano has a Tiagra 2 x 10 speed hydraulic shifter that will do what you want.
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Old 11-27-19, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dsaul View Post
Shimano has a Tiagra 2 x 10 speed hydraulic shifter that will do what you want.

Thank you! I will look into this.
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Old 11-28-19, 09:09 AM
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One hub you bought at a good price is making you spend more $ with all this mixing and matching.
Have a game plan and stick to it with the correct components.
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Old 11-28-19, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
One hub you bought at a good price is making you spend more $ with all this mixing and matching.
Have a game plan and stick to it with the correct components.
Its OK - building bikes is a pretty slow process for me. My riding friends donít understand my buying choices either.

I already have 2 super nice rim brake road bikes with 3x9 and 2x10 geartrains. My first choice would have been 2x11 for my disc bike but I can live with 2x10.

I looked at the Tiagra hydraulic shifters and they donít have a look I like.

TRP Hylix hydraulic brake levers look interesting. I could use these brake levers with the Hope RX4 calipers Iím interested in. Then I could use Shimano 2x10 or even 3x10 shifting with bar end shifters.
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Old 12-02-19, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
I looked at the Tiagra hydraulic shifters and they donít have a look I like.
Is it possible you looked at the Tiagra 405 levers? Those are hideous. The 4720/4725 series levers look like the rest of the Shimano lineup.
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Old 12-04-19, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by dsaul View Post
Is it possible you looked at the Tiagra 405 levers? Those are hideous. The 4720/4725 series levers look like the rest of the Shimano lineup.
Yes, I was looking at those cheap looking 405ís. You are right the 4720ís do look better. Do you happen to know if the 4720ís can use any Shimano 10 speed rear derailleur or if you must use the matching Tiagra one?
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Old 12-04-19, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
Yes, I was looking at those cheap looking 405ís. You are right the 4720ís do look better. Do you happen to know if the 4720ís can use any Shimano 10 speed rear derailleur or if you must use the matching Tiagra one?
I know it sounds crazy, but the 4700 shifters use the 11 speed cable pull, so any Shimano 11 speed road rear derailleur will work in place of the 4700 rear derailleur. Normal 10 speed derailleurs won't work with those shifters.
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Old 12-04-19, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dsaul View Post
I know it sounds crazy, but the 4700 shifters use the 11 speed cable pull, so any Shimano 11 speed road rear derailleur will work in place of the 4700 rear derailleur. Normal 10 speed derailleurs won't work with those shifters.
oh- wow. This is interesting. I was just looking at the pdf compatibility files for the GRX RD-RX400 rear derailleur and the GRX ST-RX400 10 speed shifters (also the Tiagra 4720/4725 ones you mentioned) and saw where they don’t use the older series 10 speed shift levers - despite being 10 speed!

This is actually good news since I would prefer to run a Dura Ace 9100 rear derailleur perhaps with the GRX RX-400 shifters for a more upscale build. I already have the rear derailleur that I picked up previously at a good price. Now to find a good price on the GRX ST-RX400 shifters. These appear to be marketed in a right or left specific kit that includes the brake caliper and hose.

I’m also a bit curious what your opinion of the build quality on these Tiagra 4720 or GRX ST-RX400’s would be compared with their 11 speed brethren. I don’t want cheap plasticky bits that are not going to hold up.
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Old 12-04-19, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
Iím also a bit curious what your opinion of the build quality on these Tiagra 4720 or GRX ST-RX400ís would be compared with their 11 speed brethren. I donít want cheap plasticky bits that are not going to hold up.
I haven't had my hands on either shifter, so I can speak as to their quality. I suspect that the GRX 400 shifters are the same as the 4720 with a different hood cover and lever shape. The biggest advertised benefit of the GRX shifters was the higher brake lever pivot, but that only made it to the top level shifters. The brake lever pivot remained in the old location on the other GRX shifters.
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Old 12-05-19, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dsaul View Post
I haven't had my hands on either shifter, so I can speak as to their quality. I suspect that the GRX 400 shifters are the same as the 4720 with a different hood cover and lever shape. The biggest advertised benefit of the GRX shifters was the higher brake lever pivot, but that only made it to the top level shifters. The brake lever pivot remained in the old location on the other GRX shifters.
thanks for the reply.

sounds like the Tiagra 4720ís might be functionally identical to the GRX 400ís.

i checked on-line & neither are terribly easy to find and the prices are pretty much fixed for Shimano in the US with no more English mail order.

i may purchase the GRX 400 levers (without calipers or hoses) from a vendor in Japan.
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