Fixed gear upgrade or not dilemma...
11-10-19, 06:09 PM
#1
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Fixed gear upgrade or not dilemma...
I have a size 43 2013 SE Lager street bike that I got from Performance Bicycles for a smoking deal a couple of years ago. I've come to really enjoy riding it even though I've made several handlebar changes. The wheelset that came with the bike is very heavy and not my favourite part of the bike although I clock great mph during the times I ride the bike. I use it more as a fun, non-training bicycle. My dilemma is, should I upgrade the wheelset to spend $250 (on a Wabi 650c wheelset) which is more than I paid for the bike or should I look at getting a newer more solidly branded fixed gear with better components/wheels and maybe a steel frame but that I'll have to get used to again... I was fortunate with my road bike purchase as I was in bike love at first ride. 
11-10-19, 10:45 PM
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If you buy a new fixed gear for not much more than the wheelset, you're going to get something with a similar wheelset and similar parts.
Your frame will be better (sometimes much much better) but not much else. You'll probably have some nice alloy bars too, but they won't be like that great.
Most sub $600 completes, for whatever reason, come with absolute crap wheels.
(That only changes when you go to like the $800+ range).
If you buy wheels, you'll notice an immediate and DRAMATIC improvement. IMO nothing else has made me smile more, and nothing else has made more of a noticeable difference.
Just from personal experience, I've noticed that wheels are the best thing you can upgrade and make the most difference other than your frame in terms of how your bike rides.
Each part will make a difference in a mutually exclusive way. Eg. If you replace rims, you'll notice. Hubs, you'll notice. Spokes, you'll probably notice. Hell, even the cog sometimes.
Your rims are probably boat anchors, and you'll probably notice a very dramatic difference as soon as you get new wheels.
If the rest of your bike is sized in industry standard (which it seems like it is) eg. 1 1/8" headset, 27.2 seatpost, ISO or JIS english threaded BB, etc. Then you can just upgrade as you go.
I would check velomine for wheels personally. I've seen some pretty good wheelsets go for about $120, and very good ones for just a little over $200.
I wouldn't settle for anything less than sealed cartridge formulas for hubs, and anything less than H+ sons, Mavic, et al. for rims in the $200 range, and you can get some classics like the CR-18 (rode these for a while and loved them 22.5 mm inner width) for the $120 range. You'll also get DT Swiss spokes on most of their builds.
This is all velomine specific. In almost any other place (even online), regular unsealed deep aftermarket wheels go for $100-$135 each!
There's also the difference between the stuff that comes stock on most bikes, and the unsealed that you can buy aftermarket. With stock being pot metal flared cups waiting to happen, and aftermarket being some decent stuff (but I personally still prefer cartridge bearings).
Sealed cartridge isn't the be all end all, but it's typically a good indicator of quality. Many aftermarket brands make great unsealed wheels that you'll just have to maintain, but IMO buying new unsealed wheels is only worth it if you're doing a conversion and you want a basic wheelset just to see if you like fixed gear riding.
Eventually you can replace the frame.
BUT, keep in mind that you have 650b wheels. If you're happy with that wheel size then go for it but keep in mind that most fixed gear frames are 700c.
I would check to see if 700c's would fit that frame (Looks like they would to me). You probalby won't be happy when you find that many frames are just not built for smaller wheels.
Anyways, point is, I wouldn't buy an entirely new bike unless you're willing to spend something close to $1000, becuase most of the parts on the mid range builds will be exactly what you have now.
Also, I would look into getting 700c wheels, or look at some of your dream frames and see if they fit or are made for 650b's. I would imagine that most frames built to ride with 650b's are like fgfs frames or some kind of "do it all" frame that won't really be all that great in terms of agility.
If you look around, and find that 700c won't fit, and you don't want to spend a ton of money, there's always the kilott.
Your frame will be better (sometimes much much better) but not much else. You'll probably have some nice alloy bars too, but they won't be like that great.
Most sub $600 completes, for whatever reason, come with absolute crap wheels.
(That only changes when you go to like the $800+ range).
If you buy wheels, you'll notice an immediate and DRAMATIC improvement. IMO nothing else has made me smile more, and nothing else has made more of a noticeable difference.
Just from personal experience, I've noticed that wheels are the best thing you can upgrade and make the most difference other than your frame in terms of how your bike rides.
Each part will make a difference in a mutually exclusive way. Eg. If you replace rims, you'll notice. Hubs, you'll notice. Spokes, you'll probably notice. Hell, even the cog sometimes.
Your rims are probably boat anchors, and you'll probably notice a very dramatic difference as soon as you get new wheels.
If the rest of your bike is sized in industry standard (which it seems like it is) eg. 1 1/8" headset, 27.2 seatpost, ISO or JIS english threaded BB, etc. Then you can just upgrade as you go.
I would check velomine for wheels personally. I've seen some pretty good wheelsets go for about $120, and very good ones for just a little over $200.
I wouldn't settle for anything less than sealed cartridge formulas for hubs, and anything less than H+ sons, Mavic, et al. for rims in the $200 range, and you can get some classics like the CR-18 (rode these for a while and loved them 22.5 mm inner width) for the $120 range. You'll also get DT Swiss spokes on most of their builds.
This is all velomine specific. In almost any other place (even online), regular unsealed deep aftermarket wheels go for $100-$135 each!
There's also the difference between the stuff that comes stock on most bikes, and the unsealed that you can buy aftermarket. With stock being pot metal flared cups waiting to happen, and aftermarket being some decent stuff (but I personally still prefer cartridge bearings).
Sealed cartridge isn't the be all end all, but it's typically a good indicator of quality. Many aftermarket brands make great unsealed wheels that you'll just have to maintain, but IMO buying new unsealed wheels is only worth it if you're doing a conversion and you want a basic wheelset just to see if you like fixed gear riding.
Eventually you can replace the frame.
BUT, keep in mind that you have 650b wheels. If you're happy with that wheel size then go for it but keep in mind that most fixed gear frames are 700c.
I would check to see if 700c's would fit that frame (Looks like they would to me). You probalby won't be happy when you find that many frames are just not built for smaller wheels.
Anyways, point is, I wouldn't buy an entirely new bike unless you're willing to spend something close to $1000, becuase most of the parts on the mid range builds will be exactly what you have now.
Also, I would look into getting 700c wheels, or look at some of your dream frames and see if they fit or are made for 650b's. I would imagine that most frames built to ride with 650b's are like fgfs frames or some kind of "do it all" frame that won't really be all that great in terms of agility.
If you look around, and find that 700c won't fit, and you don't want to spend a ton of money, there's always the kilott.
Last edited by BicycleBicycle; 11-11-19 at 11:26 AM.
11-11-19, 07:27 AM
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Good advice above.
Basically buy good wheels now and move them to your next build later.
One thing I've learned after building or buying 5 fixed gears over the years is that if you like the fit of the bike and the way you have it set up, having the best components doesn't really matter that much. But good wheels make an immediately tangible difference and they are among the easiest component to move between builds.
Basically buy good wheels now and move them to your next build later.
One thing I've learned after building or buying 5 fixed gears over the years is that if you like the fit of the bike and the way you have it set up, having the best components doesn't really matter that much. But good wheels make an immediately tangible difference and they are among the easiest component to move between builds.
11-11-19, 02:44 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
If you buy a new fixed gear for not much more than the wheelset, you're going to get something with a similar wheelset and similar parts.
Your frame will be better (sometimes much much better) but not much else. You'll probably have some nice alloy bars too, but they won't be like that great.
Most sub $600 completes, for whatever reason, come with absolute crap wheels.
(That only changes when you go to like the $800+ range).
If you buy wheels, you'll notice an immediate and DRAMATIC improvement. IMO nothing else has made me smile more, and nothing else has made more of a noticeable difference.
Just from personal experience, I've noticed that wheels are the best thing you can upgrade and make the most difference other than your frame in terms of how your bike rides.
Each part will make a difference in a mutually exclusive way. Eg. If you replace rims, you'll notice. Hubs, you'll notice. Spokes, you'll probably notice. Hell, even the cog sometimes.
Your rims are probably boat anchors, and you'll probably notice a very dramatic difference as soon as you get new wheels.
If the rest of your bike is sized in industry standard (which it seems like it is) eg. 1 1/8" headset, 27.2 seatpost, ISO or JIS english threaded BB, etc. Then you can just upgrade as you go.
I would check velomine for wheels personally. I've seen some pretty good wheelsets go for about $120, and very good ones for just a little over $200.
I wouldn't settle for anything less than sealed cartridge formulas for hubs, and anything less than H+ sons, Mavic, et al. for rims in the $200 range, and you can get some classics like the CR-18 (rode these for a while and loved them 22.5 mm inner width) for the $120 range. You'll also get DT Swiss spokes on most of their builds.
This is all velomine specific. In almost any other place (even online), regular unsealed deep aftermarket wheels go for $100-$135 each!
There's also the difference between the stuff that comes stock on most bikes, and the unsealed that you can buy aftermarket. With stock being pot metal flared cups waiting to happen, and aftermarket being some decent stuff (but I personally still prefer cartridge bearings).
Sealed cartridge isn't the be all end all, but it's typically a good indicator of quality. Many aftermarket brands make great unsealed wheels that you'll just have to maintain, but IMO buying new unsealed wheels is only worth it if you're doing a conversion and you want a basic wheelset just to see if you like fixed gear riding.
Eventually you can replace the frame.
BUT, keep in mind that you have 650b wheels. If you're happy with that wheel size then go for it but keep in mind that most fixed gear frames are 700c.
I would check to see if 700c's would fit that frame (Looks like they would to me). You probalby won't be happy when you find that many frames are just not built for smaller wheels.
Anyways, point is, I wouldn't buy an entirely new bike unless you're willing to spend something close to $1000, becuase most of the parts on the mid range builds will be exactly what you have now.
Also, I would look into getting 700c wheels, or look at some of your dream frames and see if they fit or are made for 650b's. I would imagine that most frames built to ride with 650b's are like fgfs frames or some kind of "do it all" frame that won't really be all that great in terms of agility.
If you look around, and find that 700c won't fit, and you don't want to spend a ton of money, there's always the kilott.
Your frame will be better (sometimes much much better) but not much else. You'll probably have some nice alloy bars too, but they won't be like that great.
Most sub $600 completes, for whatever reason, come with absolute crap wheels.
(That only changes when you go to like the $800+ range).
If you buy wheels, you'll notice an immediate and DRAMATIC improvement. IMO nothing else has made me smile more, and nothing else has made more of a noticeable difference.
Just from personal experience, I've noticed that wheels are the best thing you can upgrade and make the most difference other than your frame in terms of how your bike rides.
Each part will make a difference in a mutually exclusive way. Eg. If you replace rims, you'll notice. Hubs, you'll notice. Spokes, you'll probably notice. Hell, even the cog sometimes.
Your rims are probably boat anchors, and you'll probably notice a very dramatic difference as soon as you get new wheels.
If the rest of your bike is sized in industry standard (which it seems like it is) eg. 1 1/8" headset, 27.2 seatpost, ISO or JIS english threaded BB, etc. Then you can just upgrade as you go.
I would check velomine for wheels personally. I've seen some pretty good wheelsets go for about $120, and very good ones for just a little over $200.
I wouldn't settle for anything less than sealed cartridge formulas for hubs, and anything less than H+ sons, Mavic, et al. for rims in the $200 range, and you can get some classics like the CR-18 (rode these for a while and loved them 22.5 mm inner width) for the $120 range. You'll also get DT Swiss spokes on most of their builds.
This is all velomine specific. In almost any other place (even online), regular unsealed deep aftermarket wheels go for $100-$135 each!
There's also the difference between the stuff that comes stock on most bikes, and the unsealed that you can buy aftermarket. With stock being pot metal flared cups waiting to happen, and aftermarket being some decent stuff (but I personally still prefer cartridge bearings).
Sealed cartridge isn't the be all end all, but it's typically a good indicator of quality. Many aftermarket brands make great unsealed wheels that you'll just have to maintain, but IMO buying new unsealed wheels is only worth it if you're doing a conversion and you want a basic wheelset just to see if you like fixed gear riding.
Eventually you can replace the frame.
BUT, keep in mind that you have 650b wheels. If you're happy with that wheel size then go for it but keep in mind that most fixed gear frames are 700c.
I would check to see if 700c's would fit that frame (Looks like they would to me). You probalby won't be happy when you find that many frames are just not built for smaller wheels.
Anyways, point is, I wouldn't buy an entirely new bike unless you're willing to spend something close to $1000, becuase most of the parts on the mid range builds will be exactly what you have now.
Also, I would look into getting 700c wheels, or look at some of your dream frames and see if they fit or are made for 650b's. I would imagine that most frames built to ride with 650b's are like fgfs frames or some kind of "do it all" frame that won't really be all that great in terms of agility.
If you look around, and find that 700c won't fit, and you don't want to spend a ton of money, there's always the kilott.
11-11-19, 03:14 PM
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It's possible, but probably not so in a lot of cases (You need like an extra inch and a half of clearance which isn't trivial).
It will also alter the way your bike rides as frames are made with a certain wheel size in mind. It could go pretty well, or it could ride VERY strangely.
Wheel size swaps are pretty common and I read about people doing it on MTB's all of the time.
Most of the popular fixed gear frames are usually made for 700c wheels.
That's why I reminded you of the wheel size, because if you like riding fixed, and if you want to upgrade at some point, chances are you're going to want a frame with 700c wheels.
So it's a factor to consider when you think about buying new wheels vs buying a new bike.
So, it's an option, but do it at your own risk.
You're kind of in a weird situation, because wheels are the best thing you can upgrade, and your wheel size not 700c.
If you buy 650b wheels, you're going to be stuck with them and you'll have to go around looking for 650b frames.
If you buy a new bike under $600, you're going to be stuck with the same wheels basically.
The biggest difference will be in the frame. That's what you're really paying for on a complete.
So that's why it's out there as an option, but probably not the best one. It allows you to upgrade your wheels, at the risk of getting bad geometry (sometimes, but rarely dangerous), while still giving you the option to get a great frame in the future.
Your call. Again, you could always kilott and upgrade the wheels later.
If you want something that's a very significant upgrade (in all ways) from what you have now, you have to spend about $1000.
All frames in the midrange completes will be pretty good (exponentially better than the frames on $200 bikes), but components will not be that great.
Components will be better, but not so much that it warrants spending another $600 over something that just rolls.
All of the online midrangers are similar. Great frame, bad parts.
However, if you bought something like a kilott or some online midranger off the bat, then you could just replace as you go and have a pretty sick bike.
You didn't spend a lot on the bike, so you can think of it as a cheap way to test whether or not you like fixed gear riding.
Looks like you do, so there's some options out there.
Last edited by BicycleBicycle; 11-11-19 at 03:22 PM.
11-11-19, 05:59 PM
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i wouldn't dump more money into a lager. sounds like you got your monies worth already. keep it as a back up or sell it.
also wouldn't bother investing in 650c wheels unless you are very short and plan to continue riding small wheels.
you might be able to fit 700c wheels in that frame. people sometimes fit 27.5" wheels into older mountain bike frames designed for 26" (if clearance allows) to "update" them. keep in mind the geometry was designed for a smaller wheel and might have negative effects.
also wouldn't bother investing in 650c wheels unless you are very short and plan to continue riding small wheels.
you might be able to fit 700c wheels in that frame. people sometimes fit 27.5" wheels into older mountain bike frames designed for 26" (if clearance allows) to "update" them. keep in mind the geometry was designed for a smaller wheel and might have negative effects.
Last edited by REDMASTA; 11-11-19 at 06:06 PM.
11-11-19, 07:20 PM
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I concur with others that a light weight wheel set can make a lot of difference in ride characteristics, and may be more cost effective than an entirely new bike.
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11-29-19, 03:59 PM
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If I was looking to replace this, would a Masi Riser single speed be a reasonable upgrade?
