Help me with bikepacking
12-02-19, 04:03 PM
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Help me with bikepacking
Hi,
I recently wrote in this forum that I classified bike packing as a type of credit card touring. I did not mean to ruffle any feathers.
Maybe some of you seasoned bike packers can clue me in.
I would love to give bike packing a crack for full loaded/ self sufficient bike set up.
After looking at a few websites and seeing some you tube videos, without exception I saw some serious shortcomings in comparing their set up to my full loaded/ self reliant set up.
I honestly just don't see how it would work from my vantage point/ full self sufficient/ fully loaded touring.
A few parameters first:
I am short, and ride essentially a 13" frame where the top tube slants/ points towards the rear dropouts.
I drink (as all seasoned bike tourists should) 1-2 bottles an hour/ 1/4 bottle every 15 minutes. At the very least having a water bottle on the top and underneath of the down tube is mandatory. I hate the idea of stopping, digging out a water bottle from the framebag every 15 minutes. Feels like a downright dumb idea.
So a frame bag is not possible.
since I am an inventor and welder, I made an aluminum telescoping handlebar rack to hold gear. After mounting a 3 lb sleeping bag on it and after trying it out, I hated the way it pulled while riding. (affected handling) also was unable to see my front tire so I could do a decent job of missing obstacles.
I like a tent sleeping bag and pad, I know that I could potentially loose some space and weight by using a hammock, but hate the idea of getting skunked, trying to find a pair of suitable trees every night. Plus mosquitoes really love me.
I use about 90% of my gear daily. I am not one of those people carrying too much stuff.
So here is my gear list by weight I wish that I had the cubic inches per item.
1.0 lb Pocket shower, backpack, rope shower floor/ ground cover and flip flops
3.5 lb freestanding tent
3.5 lb rear panniers
3.0 lb front panniers
3.0 lb sleeping bag 15 degree
2.2 lb on the bike clothes
2.2 lb off the bike clothes
2.0 lb hygiene kit / electrolytes
1.0 lb sleeping pad
1.0 lb 2 spare tubes, tire irons, patch kit and allen keys.
1.0 lb stove
.5 lb small combo cable lock
.5 lb walking sandals
.001 water reservoir (holds up to 3 gallons)
.001 lb bags to cover my seat and handlebars at night.
Anyway., I am hoping that some of you seasoned bike packers can give me a few ideas on how to make this work. Thank you.
I recently wrote in this forum that I classified bike packing as a type of credit card touring. I did not mean to ruffle any feathers.
Maybe some of you seasoned bike packers can clue me in.
I would love to give bike packing a crack for full loaded/ self sufficient bike set up.
After looking at a few websites and seeing some you tube videos, without exception I saw some serious shortcomings in comparing their set up to my full loaded/ self reliant set up.
I honestly just don't see how it would work from my vantage point/ full self sufficient/ fully loaded touring.
A few parameters first:
I am short, and ride essentially a 13" frame where the top tube slants/ points towards the rear dropouts.
I drink (as all seasoned bike tourists should) 1-2 bottles an hour/ 1/4 bottle every 15 minutes. At the very least having a water bottle on the top and underneath of the down tube is mandatory. I hate the idea of stopping, digging out a water bottle from the framebag every 15 minutes. Feels like a downright dumb idea.
So a frame bag is not possible.
since I am an inventor and welder, I made an aluminum telescoping handlebar rack to hold gear. After mounting a 3 lb sleeping bag on it and after trying it out, I hated the way it pulled while riding. (affected handling) also was unable to see my front tire so I could do a decent job of missing obstacles.
I like a tent sleeping bag and pad, I know that I could potentially loose some space and weight by using a hammock, but hate the idea of getting skunked, trying to find a pair of suitable trees every night. Plus mosquitoes really love me.
I use about 90% of my gear daily. I am not one of those people carrying too much stuff.
So here is my gear list by weight I wish that I had the cubic inches per item.
1.0 lb Pocket shower, backpack, rope shower floor/ ground cover and flip flops
3.5 lb freestanding tent
3.5 lb rear panniers
3.0 lb front panniers
3.0 lb sleeping bag 15 degree
2.2 lb on the bike clothes
2.2 lb off the bike clothes
2.0 lb hygiene kit / electrolytes
1.0 lb sleeping pad
1.0 lb 2 spare tubes, tire irons, patch kit and allen keys.
1.0 lb stove
.5 lb small combo cable lock
.5 lb walking sandals
.001 water reservoir (holds up to 3 gallons)
.001 lb bags to cover my seat and handlebars at night.
Anyway., I am hoping that some of you seasoned bike packers can give me a few ideas on how to make this work. Thank you.
12-02-19, 04:41 PM
#2
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I drink (as all seasoned bike tourists should) 1-2 bottles an hour/ 1/4 bottle every 15 minutes. At the very least having a water bottle on the top and underneath of the down tube is mandatory. I hate the idea of stopping, digging out a water bottle from the framebag every 15 minutes. Feels like a downright dumb idea..
since I am an inventor and welder, I made an aluminum telescoping handlebar rack to hold gear. After mounting a 3 lb sleeping bag on it and after trying it out, I hated the way it pulled while riding. (affected handling) also was unable to see my front tire so I could do a decent job of missing obstacles.
12-02-19, 04:54 PM
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O.K. --- we are off to a good start, because if I used those water bottle holders, that would free up my frame triangle to have a (small) frame bag. Can those be mounted forward, because my top tube is only 54 cm my knees are bound to hit? Thank you
12-02-19, 05:12 PM
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Perhaps go to a shop and test whether your fear of hitting the feed bags is justified.
12-02-19, 05:18 PM
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Sleeping bag and tent go on the handlebar harness, front harness also holds mini top bag with tools and charging items, water bottles = feed bags, fork cages = air mattress in one and cooking stove and stuff in the other fork bag. Frame bag stores food and maps and seat bag stores extra clothing lile rain gear , sleeping clothes.
then there is the mini bag that goes on top tube... plenty of room to go self contained
then there is the mini bag that goes on top tube... plenty of room to go self contained
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12-02-19, 05:31 PM
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I didn't know about "feed bags", but recently made my own out of an old fanny pack, that has two bottle holders. The added bonus is, it has a pouch big enough for my cable & lock. I just turned it around yesterday, so the pouch is on the top tube side of the handlebars (like yours here). That way, it doesn't block my headlight light. 👍
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12-02-19, 05:59 PM
#7
Miles to Go
Yet another way to do WB's is what I used for the Great Divide. Take a look at the forks! You could also use a strap on WB carrier for the underside of the frame tube if you have room. If you don't put WB;s on the forks, they are prime territory for other stuff!
12-02-19, 06:26 PM
#8
Senior Member
+1,
Had a similar drink set up two summers ago for the GDMBR (supported...hey, I'm old couldn't find an amigo to go with me and didn't want to consume 'C' store food the whole way).
Very easy to carry gear (w/ frame pack, saddle bag) & all the fluid (w/ 1.0 liter Zefal bottles or other 1.0 liter Nalgene bottles with camelbak tubing/mouth piece/retractable lanyard-prefer to keep the hands on the bars nearly all of the time) one might need for 6+ hrs each day and sans any backpack for 43 days without back or neck pain while riding on a rigid fatbike w/ 3" wide rubber.
suggest you may want to check out bikepacker.com and Josh @ Broadforks Bags (in Park City, UT)....made me some great fluid bottle holders for the Jones bars that are a little taller, wider so that nothing comes rocketing out on some rough patches.
Last edited by stormpeakco; 12-02-19 at 06:31 PM.
12-02-19, 06:43 PM
#9
Senior Member
Check out bikepacking.com. Pic of your bike setup? Try two fish, can put water bottle anywhere within reach. Stem cap, handlebar etc. Frame bags really help with space and weight savings too.
12-02-19, 06:47 PM
#10
Senior Member
brian, what kind of riding surfaces do you want to ride on?
Unless you are going to be on really really rough stuff, two small rear panniers and a tent on top of the rack can work fine, but lets hear what you are planning to do.
and how its all fitting into your panniers (didnt read properly that you are using panniers)
what kind of bike are you using?
Unless you are going to be on really really rough stuff, two small rear panniers and a tent on top of the rack can work fine, but lets hear what you are planning to do.
and how its all fitting into your panniers (didnt read properly that you are using panniers)
what kind of bike are you using?
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12-02-19, 06:53 PM
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In 2006, I was in a ladder slide out accident where I broke both of my heels quite massively, as a result, I lost a lot of my planter and dorsey flection in my feet. I have had a bit of problem with my knees hitting rapid fire shifters occasionally: I built a frame with a 53 cm top tube and 74 degree seat tube and occasionally my knees would hit the rapid fire shifters. Now I am riding with a 54 cm top tube with a 75 seat tube, and that is giving me more clearance. A longer stem = uncomfortable for long distances.
This summer I ended up trying to sleep on a deflated pad for too many nights and have decided to go back to a more reliable pad.
Thanks for the input. I found a flight to Naples Italy from Phoenix for $401, next spring, so I am hoping to tour Sicily, go up and do France and then I do not know if you are aware of it, but Spain has about 6,000 kilometers of unused railway paths that would be nice to tour on.
This summer I ended up trying to sleep on a deflated pad for too many nights and have decided to go back to a more reliable pad.
Thanks for the input. I found a flight to Naples Italy from Phoenix for $401, next spring, so I am hoping to tour Sicily, go up and do France and then I do not know if you are aware of it, but Spain has about 6,000 kilometers of unused railway paths that would be nice to tour on.
12-02-19, 07:09 PM
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Hi,
I recently wrote in this forum that I classified bike packing as a type of credit card touring. I did not mean to ruffle any feathers.
Maybe some of you seasoned bike packers can clue me in.
I would love to give bike packing a crack for full loaded/ self sufficient bike set up.
After looking at a few websites and seeing some you tube videos, without exception I saw some serious shortcomings in comparing their set up to my full loaded/ self reliant set up.
I honestly just don't see how it would work from my vantage point/ full self sufficient/ fully loaded touring.
I recently wrote in this forum that I classified bike packing as a type of credit card touring. I did not mean to ruffle any feathers.
Maybe some of you seasoned bike packers can clue me in.
I would love to give bike packing a crack for full loaded/ self sufficient bike set up.
After looking at a few websites and seeing some you tube videos, without exception I saw some serious shortcomings in comparing their set up to my full loaded/ self reliant set up.
I honestly just don't see how it would work from my vantage point/ full self sufficient/ fully loaded touring.
I drink (as all seasoned bike tourists should) 1-2 bottles an hour/ 1/4 bottle every 15 minutes. At the very least having a water bottle on the top and underneath of the down tube is mandatory. I hate the idea of stopping, digging out a water bottle from the framebag every 15 minutes. Feels like a downright dumb idea.
It’s possible just different.
since I am an inventor and welder, I made an aluminum telescoping handlebar rack to hold gear. After mounting a 3 lb sleeping bag on it and after trying it out, I hated the way it pulled while riding. (affected handling) also was unable to see my front tire so I could do a decent job of missing obstacles.
The following are suggestions for bikepacking as it was originally intended, i.e. off-road. Bikepacking is more spartan than road touring.
Get a lighter tent. A 2 lb or 1 lb freestanding tent works better both because it is lighter but because it packs smaller.
You won’t need these for bikepacking.
Ditto.
Do you need a bag for that cold a temperature? I tour and camp in the Rockies and have the need for those kinds of temperatures. When I tour elsewhere, I go with a 40° bag which is a lot lighter.
Not a huge problem here. But, for me, that includes rain gear and cold weather gear.
Too much (even for road). I have a pair of zip-off pants and a light shirt. My rain coat/cold weather bike gear does double duty for off-bike use.
No real problem but try to cut it down some. I use these for both on- and off-road tours. Lighter than a bar of soap. 3 to 4 of them are good for a shower or sponge bath.
About average.
About average.
About average. I use butane stoves and canisters.
Yup.
Lose ‘em.
A Camelbak will do the same thing.
Carry a plastic shopping bag. Not the reusable ones.
My system is constantly evolving but here’s what it has looked like the last couple of times I’ve toured.
Summer 2018
DSCN1146 by Stuart Black, on FlickrI found this set up to have some limitations on carrying food. The water bottle is just a reserve bottle. I use a Camelbak.
Summer 2019
Untitled by Stuart Black, on FlickrI added carriers to the legs of the fork and micro panniers to the rack. Neither added much to the weight.
One other note: For bikepacking, I carry freeze-dried food. Not because I want to but because there’s just no where along the way to pick up anything else and anything else I would carry would weigh a lot more.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Last edited by cyccommute; 12-02-19 at 07:12 PM.
12-02-19, 07:17 PM
#13
Senior Member
well it certainly sounds like your setup as is, front and rear panniers, are all set to go.
I assume you have already packed your stuff into your panniers? If so, how does it all fit? Its always good to have some spare room for when you buy food at the end of the day, for supper and breakfast, and room for food to have with you always.
If possible, riding your bike with the panniers loaded up with what you plan to bring is always a good idea, to make sure all is working well and to get used to riding loaded.
I didnt do a total, but your list of stuff seems reasonable,--what do your panniers weigh with all your stuff in them? ie total weight.
I personally like inflateable sleeping pads , more comfortable than the self inflating generation of Thermarests I used for years, but no matter, a good nights sleep is worth spending the money on a good sleeping mat, an opinion I hold dearer the older I get.
I assume you have already packed your stuff into your panniers? If so, how does it all fit? Its always good to have some spare room for when you buy food at the end of the day, for supper and breakfast, and room for food to have with you always.
If possible, riding your bike with the panniers loaded up with what you plan to bring is always a good idea, to make sure all is working well and to get used to riding loaded.
I didnt do a total, but your list of stuff seems reasonable,--what do your panniers weigh with all your stuff in them? ie total weight.
I personally like inflateable sleeping pads , more comfortable than the self inflating generation of Thermarests I used for years, but no matter, a good nights sleep is worth spending the money on a good sleeping mat, an opinion I hold dearer the older I get.
12-02-19, 07:21 PM
#14
Senior Member
I wonder if Patricia has any insight into panniers vs bikepacking bags?
heck, she can afford both, so I guess it doesnt matter.....
heck, she can afford both, so I guess it doesnt matter.....
12-02-19, 07:35 PM
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Personally, I don’t trade traditional panniers for bikepacking unless I have to. If you are riding on the road or even mild dirt roads, panniers are just hands down better. If you want to go someplace remote and rugged, bikepacking gear is better than panniers but only because it has a smaller profile and rides out of the way of rocks. Don’t do it just because bikepacking happens to be popular now.
You are going to have problems with bikepacking from the get-go. Small frames make life harder. A frame bag won’t have too much room and a large size saddle bag may not be able to fit between the saddle and the rear wheel. My current saddle bag has a hole in it because it rubbed on smaller bike when I loaned it out.
So don’t dig for bottles. Use a Camelbak. Honestly, bikepacking gear came from mountain biking which is far more comfortable with Camelbaks than road riders are. Carrying the water on your back is what frees up the space for a frame bag. You don’t have to dig around in a bag to get a drink...you just grab the hose and suck away.
It’s possible just different.
You’ve discovered one of the problems with bikepacking gear over traditional panniers. The load is carried higher and further forward. This does make the bike less stable. But, in an off-road situation, the higher load provides more clearance.
The following are suggestions for bikepacking as it was originally intended, i.e. off-road. Bikepacking is more spartan than road touring.
Not sure what all this is but in a remote setting, it’s mostly useless. Lose it.
Get a lighter tent. A 2 lb or 1 lb freestanding tent works better both because it is lighter but because it packs smaller.
You won’t need these for bikepacking.
Ditto.
Do you need a bag for that cold a temperature? I tour and camp in the Rockies and have the need for those kinds of temperatures. When I tour elsewhere, I go with a 40° bag which is a lot lighter.
Not a huge problem here. But, for me, that includes rain gear and cold weather gear.
Too much (even for road). I have a pair of zip-off pants and a light shirt. My rain coat/cold weather bike gear does double duty for off-bike use.
No real problem but try to cut it down some. I use these for both on- and off-road tours. Lighter than a bar of soap. 3 to 4 of them are good for a shower or sponge bath.
About average.
About average.
About average. I use butane stoves and canisters.
Yup.
Lose ‘em.
A Camelbak will do the same thing.
Carry a plastic shopping bag. Not the reusable ones.
My system is constantly evolving but here’s what it has looked like the last couple of times I’ve toured.
Summer 2018
DSCN1146 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
I found this set up to have some limitations on carrying food. The water bottle is just a reserve bottle. I use a Camelbak.
Summer 2019
Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr
I added carriers to the legs of the fork and micro panniers to the rack. Neither added much to the weight.
One other note: For bikepacking, I carry freeze-dried food. Not because I want to but because there’s just no where along the way to pick up anything else and anything else I would carry would weigh a lot more.
You are going to have problems with bikepacking from the get-go. Small frames make life harder. A frame bag won’t have too much room and a large size saddle bag may not be able to fit between the saddle and the rear wheel. My current saddle bag has a hole in it because it rubbed on smaller bike when I loaned it out.
So don’t dig for bottles. Use a Camelbak. Honestly, bikepacking gear came from mountain biking which is far more comfortable with Camelbaks than road riders are. Carrying the water on your back is what frees up the space for a frame bag. You don’t have to dig around in a bag to get a drink...you just grab the hose and suck away.
It’s possible just different.
You’ve discovered one of the problems with bikepacking gear over traditional panniers. The load is carried higher and further forward. This does make the bike less stable. But, in an off-road situation, the higher load provides more clearance.
The following are suggestions for bikepacking as it was originally intended, i.e. off-road. Bikepacking is more spartan than road touring.
Not sure what all this is but in a remote setting, it’s mostly useless. Lose it.
Get a lighter tent. A 2 lb or 1 lb freestanding tent works better both because it is lighter but because it packs smaller.
You won’t need these for bikepacking.
Ditto.
Do you need a bag for that cold a temperature? I tour and camp in the Rockies and have the need for those kinds of temperatures. When I tour elsewhere, I go with a 40° bag which is a lot lighter.
Not a huge problem here. But, for me, that includes rain gear and cold weather gear.
Too much (even for road). I have a pair of zip-off pants and a light shirt. My rain coat/cold weather bike gear does double duty for off-bike use.
No real problem but try to cut it down some. I use these for both on- and off-road tours. Lighter than a bar of soap. 3 to 4 of them are good for a shower or sponge bath.
About average.
About average.
About average. I use butane stoves and canisters.
Yup.
Lose ‘em.
A Camelbak will do the same thing.
Carry a plastic shopping bag. Not the reusable ones.
My system is constantly evolving but here’s what it has looked like the last couple of times I’ve toured.
Summer 2018
DSCN1146 by Stuart Black, on FlickrI found this set up to have some limitations on carrying food. The water bottle is just a reserve bottle. I use a Camelbak.
Summer 2019
Untitled by Stuart Black, on FlickrI added carriers to the legs of the fork and micro panniers to the rack. Neither added much to the weight.
One other note: For bikepacking, I carry freeze-dried food. Not because I want to but because there’s just no where along the way to pick up anything else and anything else I would carry would weigh a lot more.
Originally Posted by Brian25 View Post
I use about 90% of my gear daily. I am not one of those people carrying too much stuff.
So here is my gear list by weight I wish that I had the cubic inches per item.
1.0 lb Pocket shower, backpack, rope shower floor/ ground cover and flip flops
Not sure what all this is but in a remote setting, it’s mostly useless. Lose it.
This pocket shower (only 100 grams) has made it possible to fill up with water, go in the outback, find a tree, hoist the pocket shower up via rope, higher than my head, open the nozzle an it's awsome instant shower. Sure beats springing for pricey hotels just to get a decent shower. This was used: fist; last spring for Baja and then three weeks in Colorado everyday. No way that I would give it up. You might not either, once you've tried it. I swear by it!
12-02-19, 07:58 PM
#16
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brian, what kind of riding surfaces do you want to ride on?
Unless you are going to be on really really rough stuff, two small rear panniers and a tent on top of the rack can work fine, but lets hear what you are planning to do.
and how its all fitting into your panniers (didnt read properly that you are using panniers)
what kind of bike are you using?
Unless you are going to be on really really rough stuff, two small rear panniers and a tent on top of the rack can work fine, but lets hear what you are planning to do.
and how its all fitting into your panniers (didnt read properly that you are using panniers)
what kind of bike are you using?
12-02-19, 08:12 PM
#17
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well it certainly sounds like your setup as is, front and rear panniers, are all set to go.
I assume you have already packed your stuff into your panniers? If so, how does it all fit? Its always good to have some spare room for when you buy food at the end of the day, for supper and breakfast, and room for food to have with you always.
If possible, riding your bike with the panniers loaded up with what you plan to bring is always a good idea, to make sure all is working well and to get used to riding loaded.
I didnt do a total, but your list of stuff seems reasonable,--what do your panniers weigh with all your stuff in them? ie total weight.
I personally like inflateable sleeping pads , more comfortable than the self inflating generation of Thermarests I used for years, but no matter, a good nights sleep is worth spending the money on a good sleeping mat, an opinion I hold dearer the older I get.
I assume you have already packed your stuff into your panniers? If so, how does it all fit? Its always good to have some spare room for when you buy food at the end of the day, for supper and breakfast, and room for food to have with you always.
If possible, riding your bike with the panniers loaded up with what you plan to bring is always a good idea, to make sure all is working well and to get used to riding loaded.
I didnt do a total, but your list of stuff seems reasonable,--what do your panniers weigh with all your stuff in them? ie total weight.
I personally like inflateable sleeping pads , more comfortable than the self inflating generation of Thermarests I used for years, but no matter, a good nights sleep is worth spending the money on a good sleeping mat, an opinion I hold dearer the older I get.
12-02-19, 08:23 PM
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Don’t think you ruffled feathers. Just think your definition of bikepacking was so far outside the common understanding of that term to be objectively inaccurate. I’m generally not one for overly ridged definitions, but you need some standards. Can’t have a discussion about shoes if shoes include shoes and umbrellas.
In any event, what Cyco wrote.
In any event, what Cyco wrote.
12-02-19, 08:40 PM
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For bikepacking, the emphasis is on light and minimal because you need to haul all that stuff off road, up and down rough terrain and negotiate single track widths. Hike a bike is not unexpected. The bags and philosophy re enforce a spartan ethos that is embraced by those who choose it. It's not for everyone. If you want to take luxuries like a shower, flip flops/walking sandals/riding shoes or a heavy tent then stick with the traditional four pannier set up and have fun. No one is judging except for the guy who says this: "Feels like a downright dumb idea".
12-02-19, 09:00 PM
#20
Senior Member
how about a photo of your bike and setup Brian?
24lbs isnt much at all. I do like using front and rear panniers to spread the weight around, makes a bike handle better overall.
I step over the toptubes on my bikes when I mount and dismount generally.
I've ridden a fair amount of dirt roads of all sorts, and find 1.5's to be a minimum, and ride wider on one bike that Ive toured on a lot. 1.5's are a good compromise of going well on pavement and dirt roads, but I do prefer slightly wider, but then there are so many diff tires out there, there are loads of options.
24lbs isnt much at all. I do like using front and rear panniers to spread the weight around, makes a bike handle better overall.
I step over the toptubes on my bikes when I mount and dismount generally.
I've ridden a fair amount of dirt roads of all sorts, and find 1.5's to be a minimum, and ride wider on one bike that Ive toured on a lot. 1.5's are a good compromise of going well on pavement and dirt roads, but I do prefer slightly wider, but then there are so many diff tires out there, there are loads of options.
12-03-19, 05:45 AM
#21
Senior Member
Don’t think you ruffled feathers. Just think your definition of bikepacking was so far outside the common understanding of that term to be objectively inaccurate. I’m generally not one for overly ridged definitions, but you need some standards. Can’t have a discussion about shoes if shoes include shoes and umbrellas.
In any event, what Cyco wrote.
In any event, what Cyco wrote.
I still don't get how that in any way equates to credit card touring, but I figure it isn't coming from a bad place in his case. So no hard feelings or anything. The comment kind of hits a nerve when I hear it, but I consider the source and try to figure out where they are coming from. In this case I don't agree, but i don't see a reason to get worked up over it either.
It kind of seems to me as if the whole thing comes down to how people define bikepacking and I think there is little agreement on that. Often it seems to be pretty heavily tied to the style of bags used. To me that makes little to no sense. In other definitions it is more about where you tour. In still other definitions it is about what you do or don't carry or what kind of bike you ride. At some point trying to draw a hard line becomes kind of moot. A lot of what I do is vaguely on one side or the other of the line between bikepacking and touring that isn't bikepacking and I personally just choose to call it all touring. That is probably because I am in my late 60s rather than my late 20s or 30s.
12-03-19, 06:42 AM
#22
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It sounds like you have your gear pretty sorted out for your needs/preferences. There is still a good bit of weight that I would trim, but whether you want to is a personal preference matter. I don't necessarily consider myself a bikepacker, but I pack lighter and more compact than most bikepackers that I have met, so I will weigh in any way. Not sure if any of this is useful, but I'll offer it for what it is worth.
One thing I notice is that you list weight in pounds. Maybe it works for you, if so great, but decimal pounds seem like a strange unit to use. Very hard for me to visualize when making decisions. Personally I use pounds and ounces with the ounces using digital fractions. Grams and kilograms would be easier to do the math with, but I think in pounds and ounces.
Also I find it useful to keep a spreadsheet with every single item carried. I break it down by categories of items with a tab for each category and a general tab that has totals. I tend to have a lot of items listed that may not be carried and multiple choices for some items. Also I have it set up so I can select and unselect items to see how the affect totals. You may do the same and I am not necessarily asking that you share you's but merely suggesting that you may find it a useful exercise. For me it is something I have gone over hundreds (thousands?) of times over the years in evolving the list.
One thing I notice is that you list weight in pounds. Maybe it works for you, if so great, but decimal pounds seem like a strange unit to use. Very hard for me to visualize when making decisions. Personally I use pounds and ounces with the ounces using digital fractions. Grams and kilograms would be easier to do the math with, but I think in pounds and ounces.
Also I find it useful to keep a spreadsheet with every single item carried. I break it down by categories of items with a tab for each category and a general tab that has totals. I tend to have a lot of items listed that may not be carried and multiple choices for some items. Also I have it set up so I can select and unselect items to see how the affect totals. You may do the same and I am not necessarily asking that you share you's but merely suggesting that you may find it a useful exercise. For me it is something I have gone over hundreds (thousands?) of times over the years in evolving the list.
1.0 lb Pocket shower, backpack, rope shower floor/ ground cover and flip flops - Personally I'd skip all of this and take a microfiber wash cloth
3.5 lb freestanding tent - There are lighter tents, but I like to take a 12.3 ounce tarp, and either a 7 ounce bivy or a 5.3 ounce bug bivy.
3.5 lb rear panniers - I have done a variety of things including using light silnylon stuff sacks strapped on a light rear rack
3.0 lb front panniers
3.0 lb sleeping bag 15 degree - I sleep pretty warm and have gotten by with a 17 ounce bag and wearing all clothes or piling them on top of me on the coldest nights. I have been fine down into the teens F. I don't take w warmer unless doing real winter camping, but I don't do real winter bike touring. I did the Southern Tier eastbound starting in mid February a few years ago, but that is about as close to winter touring as I plan to do. If I do real winter camping it is more likely to be on skis.
2.2 lb on the bike clothes - Not sure if you count the set of clothes you wear all the time (I don't count one set of shorts, socks, and jersey that I always have on when riding), but I carry somewhere between 1 and 2.5 pounds of additional clothing depending on the trip. That includes cool weather stuff and rain stuff.
2.2 lb off the bike clothes
2.0 lb hygiene kit / electrolytes - Not sure what is included here. Sounds like a lot. Mine looks like 5 or 6 ounces on previous trips, but we may be including different things.
1.0 lb sleeping pad - Mine is 12 ounce, but I take a 3 ounce pillow so we are about the same.
1.0 lb 2 spare tubes, tire irons, patch kit and allen keys. - I take about the same
1.0 lb stove - Not sure what this includes. Pot, utensils, lighter, windscreen? I uses a pop can alcohol burner on most trips. It comes in at about 7 ounces with all of the previous items. Some trips i might take a different stove in which case it closer to a pound. I like to use the pop can stove because I can easily fly with it and not worry about TSA confiscating it.
.5 lb small combo cable lock - For me it depends on the trip. Some trips I have not bothered and some trips I take a lock that weighs a few ounces.
.5 lb walking sandals - Again it depends on the trip. I have gone with only bike shoes, taken some minimal off bike shoes, and have taken trail runners depending on how much hiking I wanted to do. Once I bought trail runners to do a week of hiking and mail home.
.001 water reservoir (holds up to 3 gallons) - 0.016 ounces? That must be a typo right?
.001 lb bags to cover my seat and handlebars at night. - No big deal, but not something I have ever bothered with.
3.5 lb freestanding tent - There are lighter tents, but I like to take a 12.3 ounce tarp, and either a 7 ounce bivy or a 5.3 ounce bug bivy.
3.5 lb rear panniers - I have done a variety of things including using light silnylon stuff sacks strapped on a light rear rack
3.0 lb front panniers
3.0 lb sleeping bag 15 degree - I sleep pretty warm and have gotten by with a 17 ounce bag and wearing all clothes or piling them on top of me on the coldest nights. I have been fine down into the teens F. I don't take w warmer unless doing real winter camping, but I don't do real winter bike touring. I did the Southern Tier eastbound starting in mid February a few years ago, but that is about as close to winter touring as I plan to do. If I do real winter camping it is more likely to be on skis.
2.2 lb on the bike clothes - Not sure if you count the set of clothes you wear all the time (I don't count one set of shorts, socks, and jersey that I always have on when riding), but I carry somewhere between 1 and 2.5 pounds of additional clothing depending on the trip. That includes cool weather stuff and rain stuff.
2.2 lb off the bike clothes
2.0 lb hygiene kit / electrolytes - Not sure what is included here. Sounds like a lot. Mine looks like 5 or 6 ounces on previous trips, but we may be including different things.
1.0 lb sleeping pad - Mine is 12 ounce, but I take a 3 ounce pillow so we are about the same.
1.0 lb 2 spare tubes, tire irons, patch kit and allen keys. - I take about the same
1.0 lb stove - Not sure what this includes. Pot, utensils, lighter, windscreen? I uses a pop can alcohol burner on most trips. It comes in at about 7 ounces with all of the previous items. Some trips i might take a different stove in which case it closer to a pound. I like to use the pop can stove because I can easily fly with it and not worry about TSA confiscating it.
.5 lb small combo cable lock - For me it depends on the trip. Some trips I have not bothered and some trips I take a lock that weighs a few ounces.
.5 lb walking sandals - Again it depends on the trip. I have gone with only bike shoes, taken some minimal off bike shoes, and have taken trail runners depending on how much hiking I wanted to do. Once I bought trail runners to do a week of hiking and mail home.
.001 water reservoir (holds up to 3 gallons) - 0.016 ounces? That must be a typo right?
.001 lb bags to cover my seat and handlebars at night. - No big deal, but not something I have ever bothered with.
12-03-19, 06:53 AM
#23
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Your equipment list is not too bad weight wise but based on my experience you could pare down some of the weight and volume. It is not just a matter of weight because volume also effects weight because you have to keep gear in something so that the carry sacks add to the weight. It is a cumulative effect that adds up surprisingly. I estimate that of the total weight carried, 10% is what it rides in.
I have a favorite Western Mountaineering 20 degree sleeping bag that weighs 1 lb. 13 ounces that replaced a 20 degree bag weighing 2 3/4 lbs. https://www.westernmountaineering.co...ies/ultralite/ Not only was the weight reduced but the volume also. Also, tents over the last 10 years or so, have much reduced weights and materials and volume.
You could throw all your gear into a cardboard carton, where you can easily measure the volume to get a good idea of how to carry it all.
I have a favorite Western Mountaineering 20 degree sleeping bag that weighs 1 lb. 13 ounces that replaced a 20 degree bag weighing 2 3/4 lbs. https://www.westernmountaineering.co...ies/ultralite/ Not only was the weight reduced but the volume also. Also, tents over the last 10 years or so, have much reduced weights and materials and volume.
You could throw all your gear into a cardboard carton, where you can easily measure the volume to get a good idea of how to carry it all.
12-03-19, 07:41 AM
#24
Senior Member
re tents, a 3.5lb tent is still a pretty light tent. Sure, there are tents in the 2.5lb range, 1.something kilo range , but Ive got a similar tent (a MSR 2p ) that I used to think was light, but now I would have just bought a 1p light one in the 2.5lb range.
In real life, we do have to take into account that while there are all kinds of super light stuff, it often involves spending a fair amount of money to buy, so in my case, it still comes down to "well, Ive got this tent, I'll just live with it and save 3 or 400 bucks" , and a pound or so isnt the end of the world.
I also carried a 7lb tent for ages, and even now have a newer nearly 7 lb 3p tent that I use when doing camping with my wife, just for the room, and it was a reasonably priced, very good quality tent.
but yes, it would nice to pare down weight, but sometimes using what we have and using the money not spent on saving a pound or two on paying for other stuff we need, or bike parts, or new bike shoes, or part of trip costs etc.
Brian, do you have racks on this bike, or are you still in the planning stages?
Oh, and the other advantage to using four panniers is that you take some weight off the rear wheel, which helps with making life easier for the rim and spokes back there--and in your case, the welds also ;-)
In real life, we do have to take into account that while there are all kinds of super light stuff, it often involves spending a fair amount of money to buy, so in my case, it still comes down to "well, Ive got this tent, I'll just live with it and save 3 or 400 bucks" , and a pound or so isnt the end of the world.
I also carried a 7lb tent for ages, and even now have a newer nearly 7 lb 3p tent that I use when doing camping with my wife, just for the room, and it was a reasonably priced, very good quality tent.
but yes, it would nice to pare down weight, but sometimes using what we have and using the money not spent on saving a pound or two on paying for other stuff we need, or bike parts, or new bike shoes, or part of trip costs etc.
Brian, do you have racks on this bike, or are you still in the planning stages?
Oh, and the other advantage to using four panniers is that you take some weight off the rear wheel, which helps with making life easier for the rim and spokes back there--and in your case, the welds also ;-)
12-03-19, 07:48 AM
#25
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Thank you for your nice comments. O.K. Even though I listed my gear and weights, I am not necessarily trying to loose weight with the gear. Truth be told that I must disclose that at 5-6", I used to weigh in as low as 124 lbs, but now I am about 144, so as far as losing weight the biggest gain that I can make is with me. What I am after here is how to get this gear to fit in a bike packing format sans the panniers. It sounds like if I were to get the water bottles removed via camel back and someone wrote they think my tent & sleeping bag should go up front. (not sure about that). It also sounds like clothing should go behind the seat Stove under the down tube. So that leaves everything else to go in the frame bag: Camera, Sleeping pad, aluminum pan, hygiene kit, space for food? So that is where I sort of hit the wall at this point.
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