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Brand New 1991 Waterford Paramount

Old 11-06-18, 05:00 PM
  #26  
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First, I think that bike is super clean and would fetch on the south side of $1k and probably not more than that. The 7400 group is super clean. It's an earlier version, but it's complete.

Second @IndianaMitch, I think you could do the 183/120 next year with a little training. There are guys that ride that mileage fairly frequently. I loved the old photos. Pretty cool
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Old 11-06-18, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TimmyT View Post
First, I think that bike is super clean and would fetch on the south side of $1k and probably not more than that. The 7400 group is super clean. It's an earlier version, but it's complete.

Second @IndianaMitch, I think you could do the 183/120 next year with a little training. There are guys that ride that mileage fairly frequently. I loved the old photos. Pretty cool
Thank you Timmy... But I'm 60 years old and 30 pounds overweight now. The most exercise I get now is playing drums for four or five rock bands that I sit in with. But I am going to give cycling a serious go again next year. I'll take all the encouragement I can get.


I want to change this bike over to drop bars. I was a little bummed out when I learned how much that's going to cost me. But I just don't like the straight bars.
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Old 11-06-18, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
@rhm, @nlerner and @TimmyT do those kind of distances all the time. Last year the 3 of them rode together about 140 (very hilly) miles from RHM's house in NJ to my house in Sullivan County, NY. It's really not that unheard of. The next day I believe they rode about 80 more miles.
Yep. 300 miles in two days is no big deal to a very serious cyclist in his twenties. But I remember it well enough to know that I sure couldn't do it now.
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Old 11-06-18, 05:35 PM
  #29  
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First, I think that being 30lbs overweight is a starting point. If you want to ride, set your mind to it, and do it. There's a lot of freedom on a bike. A lot of the randonneurs I ride with are older guys who come back to the sport.

How good are you at working on your bike? If you're mechanically inclined you can do the work yourself.
If it were me, I look at that and the v-brakes more-or-less point to using drop-bar v-brake levers and bar end shifters. How many speeds are on the back wheel? Get the bar end shifters that match that. You can buy all this stuff second hand here. You'll need new housing and cables, and you can buy those as a jagwire kit on Amazon or eBay. Overall, I think you'd be in the neighborhood of $80-100 depending on the deals you can get and whether you can do the work yourself.

Keep playing in the rock band ... sounds like fun and stress relief.
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Old 11-06-18, 05:59 PM
  #30  
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Yep. Indiana... flat as a pancake.

Last edited by IndianaMitch; 11-07-18 at 05:19 AM. Reason: duplicate photo
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Old 11-06-18, 06:08 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by TimmyT View Post
First, I think that being 30lbs overweight is a starting point. If you want to ride, set your mind to it, and do it. There's a lot of freedom on a bike. A lot of the randonneurs I ride with are older guys who come back to the sport.

How good are you at working on your bike? If you're mechanically inclined you can do the work yourself.
If it were me, I look at that and the v-brakes more-or-less point to using drop-bar v-brake levers and bar end shifters. How many speeds are on the back wheel? Get the bar end shifters that match that. You can buy all this stuff second hand here. You'll need new housing and cables, and you can buy those as a jagwire kit on Amazon or eBay. Overall, I think you'd be in the neighborhood of $80-100 depending on the deals you can get and whether you can do the work yourself.

Keep playing in the rock band ... sounds like fun and stress relief.
I was thinking I might be able to do it myself. I've worked on bikes all my life. I'll come back here in the spring for advice on components and procedures.

As far as sitting in with bands... a couple of weeks ago was fun. <grin>


Last edited by IndianaMitch; 11-07-18 at 05:18 AM. Reason: duplicate
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Old 11-06-18, 08:58 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by StarBiker View Post
To a certain extent yes. He is in Indiana which is quite flat, but 183 miles in a day? C'mon. When was the last time you did 190 miles in a day?

.....
Well, it's not for everyone, and I'm not going to claim it's a sign of either physical or mental health, but...

Last month I did a 600 km ride in 39 hours. That was about 235 miles the first day and 150 the second day, if I recall correctly, and that was a seriously hilly ride. In July I did a 1000 km loop around Lake Ontario; the first "day" (from 7:30 pm one day to 9 pm the next day) I rode 299 miles. That was quite flat, and obviously 25Ĺ hours is more than a day. But yeah, people do distances like that.

Why, I can't tell you.
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Old 11-06-18, 09:27 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Well, it's not for everyone, and I'm not going to claim it's a sign of either physical or mental health, but...
Physical fitness and mental illness?

That's quite an accomplishment, my hat's off to you.
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Old 11-06-18, 10:16 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by IndianaMitch View Post



Yep. Indiana... flat as a pancake.
LOL

Flat enough to see the horizon curve ------ I don't know what the other guys' deal is on riding 183 in 12 hours . That's a respectable distance and a respectable time , but a -- 15-16 mph avg speed? Definitely do-able on a monitored course even for a Cat-6 cyclist (but is a dedicated effort for sure) . I did a 12 hour time trial in 1996 on a 14 mile circuit that actually was relatively flat . If I divulged the mileage here I guess I would be laughed off the internet, but it was a little north of @#@$ (this was with a mechanic and sag support and a completely closed course )
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Old 11-07-18, 05:45 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
LOL

Flat enough to see the horizon curve ------ I don't know what the other guys' deal is on riding 183 in 12 hours . That's a respectable distance and a respectable time , but a -- 15-16 mph avg speed? Definitely do-able on a monitored course even for a Cat-6 cyclist (but is a dedicated effort for sure) . I did a 12 hour time trial in 1996 on a 14 mile circuit that actually was relatively flat . If I divulged the mileage here I guess I would be laughed off the internet, but it was a little north of @#@$ (this was with a mechanic and sag support and a completely closed course )
Exactly. that's why it was no big deal. I had a support vehicle... we made multiple, short stops for interviews and Right-to-Life rallies... and it took me ~15 hours to reach Indianapolis. The last couple of hours were VERY slow, because the back roads into Indy were in terrible shape... and I expected to make Indy before dark, but failed. My brother in the support car (my dad's 1978 Toyota station wagon!) followed me as closely as possible with his the upper beams on. There were a few potholes that nearly swallowed me. LOL. The rain and headwinds made day one take longer than anticipated, probably due to the rallies and food stops, but I was still quite pleased to make it. I did seriously consider finding a lighted area to ride 17 more miles for my first-ever Double Century. But once the adrenaline wore off, after the TV interview on the Capital steps, I just wanted to soak in a tub and go to bed.

As far as riding a LONG distance, my numbers are a joke. You guys remember Lon Haldeman of Race Across America fame? For those who don't, here's his Wikipedia entry.

Lon Haldeman is an American ultramarathon cyclist. Nicknamed "Marathon Lon", He was the catalyst for ultra distance bicycle racing. His first achievement was in 1979 when he won the Wisconsin End to End Record covering 407 miles in 23 hours 7 minutes. In the 1982 Great American Bike Race, later renamed the Race Across America, he completely changed the parameters, cycling for 9 days and 20 hours with three other cycling pioneers John Howard, John Marino and Michael Shermer.


That guy was an absolute animal on a bike in the late '70s and early '80s. Here I am, riding with him as he headed east across southern Illinois. I was welcomed by his crew to ride along... but they REALLY warned you to NOT get directly in front of him, or right behind him. If he was found to be drafting anyone, even for a moment, he could be disqualified. Check out the Skid Lids he and are wearing. Remember those?! LOL





I can't believe how much I'm missing that old PX-10. I parted it out to buy a recumbent.... one of those BikeE things... which I rode for about 5 years. And then... the cycling just came to an end. SMH

Hope you guys don't mind all the photos. It's fun to reminisce a bit. I think this group may inspire me to get cycling again. I live just two minutes from a nice rails-to-trails bike path. Thy guy I did my second length of Indiana ride with never stopped riding -- he's about 55 and really strong -- tells me that the days of riding on the back roads and streets are over. He now tells me that he's scared to death to ride anything other than bike paths, because of drivers paying more attention to their phones, than the road. I believe him.

As always... thanks for the encouraging words and the dialogue.

Last edited by IndianaMitch; 11-07-18 at 06:07 AM. Reason: Fix a typo and formatting again
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Old 11-07-18, 06:48 AM
  #36  
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I donít have a clue what your bike is worth, but I really enjoyed reading through this thread. Thanks for posting...
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Old 11-07-18, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Well, it's not for everyone, and I'm not going to claim it's a sign of either physical or mental health, but...

Last month I did a 600 km ride in 39 hours. That was about 235 miles the first day and 150 the second day, if I recall correctly, and that was a seriously hilly ride. In July I did a 1000 km loop around Lake Ontario; the first "day" (from 7:30 pm one day to 9 pm the next day) I rode 299 miles. That was quite flat, and obviously 25Ĺ hours is more than a day. But yeah, people do distances like that.

Why, I can't tell you.
I would like to try it, but I can't get to a place where it would be feasible to attempt it. I think my neck couldn't take it. I would need a modern back to attempt it. Anyway I had a PX 10 that was to big a few years ago. 25" Frame and the guy that bought it was 5'6".


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Old 11-07-18, 07:31 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by noobinsf View Post
I donít have a clue what your bike is worth, but I really enjoyed reading through this thread. Thanks for posting...
Thanks, Noobinsf! I'm glad to hear that. I always assume that I'm probably boring the hell out of everyone in the room. But I've had a lot of fun on a bike... training and following bird dogs with a little 28 gauge shotgun... fly fishing from a float tube... playing drums in a handful of bands... playing guitar and singing at various venues... and chasing my 9 grandchildren around. And considering I've had 5 hip replacement procedures... both shoulders have been replaces... and another 12 surgical procedures... I consider myself VERY fortunate.

A very, very blessed life, to be sure.

I'd write a book... but I'm well aware it would only sell a dozen copies. And I'd buy those, and hand them out to family.
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Old 11-07-18, 07:46 AM
  #39  
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@IndianaMitch, I too have no idea how much your bike is worth. I do have a thing for white bikes, so if you ever come up with a price please be sure to post it.

I have also enjoyed your post, the stories of your ride and the photos.

Btw, I am 62, slightly overweight, diabetic and with a heart condition. I still ride strong, up and down hills. At 60, you are a young guy. Never stop riding, it’s good for your body, good for your mind and good for your soul.

Cheers!
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Old 11-07-18, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post

Why, I can't tell you.
...because it was there.
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Old 11-07-18, 01:11 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by StarBiker View Post
I would like to try it, but I can't get to a place where it would be feasible to attempt it. I think my neck couldn't take it. I would need a modern back to attempt it. Anyway I had a PX 10 that was to big a few years ago. 25" Frame and the guy that bought it was 5'6".

That is BEAUTIFUL!!

My first bike was a Peugeot UO-8, which I thought was the coolest thing in the world. I can't remember how I came to own it - perhaps a yard sale. A friend who knew a thousand times more about bicycles than I (not that difficult, really) told me it was a, ". . . 'water pipe' bike - like a Schwinn varsity. Heavy as hell."

But by then... I was intrigued with owning a Peugeot... but I now wanted a lighter, faster... BETTER one. Shortly thereafter, I heard that a nearby Bike Shop in Highland, Indiana had some old racing bikes in storage. I went to see the owner, who smiled at my inquiry and then disappeared into the attic of the store for about 20 minutes. He returned with a dust-covered box and showed me a PX-10 from the early '70s, all in pieces, straight from the factory. I think I paid about $250 in 1982, when I was just 24.

Feeling like a ten-year-old on Christmas morning... I rushed it home and stumbled along until I got it all together. I had NO idea how tubular tires went on... but found someone to help me. I had to go buy a pump (or maybe a converter) for the Presta valves.

Once it was together.... I took a test ride which nearly ended with me wrapped around a stop sign. I remember pulling over, with my heart racing from fear and joy... and resting under a tree to calm myself down. I'm sure I must have had a wild-eyed look on my face as I ran my hands over the new, and very light, bike... and said to myself, "This is NOT a water-pipe bike. You need to be REALLY careful or you'll be dead by the weekend."

I eventually "ruined" that bike as made it a better, safer road bike for me. The bars were swapped with Cinelli's. Suntour brakes, shifters and derailleurs were installed. An Avocet buffalo hide saddle and smaller inner Stronglight chain ring for climbing. Brand new racing tubulars... a good air pump, water bottle cages... shiny blue Benotto handle bar tape... and I was in business. From there... I just rode... and rode... and rode. Every morning at sunup, so I'd be back in time for a shower before going to work... and on my days off... I just rode into the wind until I was out of time, food or energy... and then back home.

It was fun. AND THAT BIKE IN THE PHOTO IS AN AWESOME REMINDER!
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Old 11-07-18, 06:18 PM
  #42  
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I now have a Serial No. 540BMW G90033
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Old 11-07-18, 07:04 PM
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That should be the 33rd frame of July 1990.
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Old 11-08-18, 06:22 AM
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Does anyone here know where I can find a geometry chart on Mitch's Paramount?

IE C to T for the seat tube and C to C for the top tube ?
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Old 11-12-18, 09:43 AM
  #45  
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It appears the seller cannot deal with the fact that it's not worth at least $2000 so he's going to take it off the market and reevaluate in five or ten years.

Sorry!
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Old 11-12-18, 10:52 AM
  #46  
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If there were only a handful of those bikes made or in existence today...then it "might" be worth more in five or ten years. But most likely, anyone really interested in that bike is because they grew up around that bike, couldn't afford it at the time but now can. In ten years that audience will be smaller and older. Best bet might be Ebay or similar where you might get more than one person interested and that will drive up the price.
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Old 11-13-18, 07:07 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by IndianaMitch View Post
It appears the seller cannot deal with the fact that it's not worth at least $2000 so he's going to take it off the market and reevaluate in five or ten years.

Sorry!
Chrome 1970s Chicago Paramounts are often going for less than that. Dream disconnected from reality. I sold a 1986 Paramount in similar condition for $850 and it took a while. And the market has softened up since then. Glad I didn't wait for it to go up in value.
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Old 09-12-20, 12:32 PM
  #48  
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The Latest

My friend is my friend is, once again, considering selling his Paramount. Has anything changed regarding what they are going for?
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Old 09-12-20, 01:36 PM
  #49  
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Mitch as you well know, value is only determined by what someone else (or many someones) is willing to pay for it. Suggest your friend visit Ebay under "Schwinn Paramount Bicycle" to see what others are asking for their Paramounts.

Then, tell him to look to the left for "Completed Sales" to see what other Paramounts actually did sell for...or didn't sell at all. Many of those. He knows what he paid for it, he feels what the bike means to him emotionally and he is used to hearing of things becoming rare and collectable and rising in price. Unfortunately only some things, not all things. Guys who loved and cherished Schwinn Paramounts are getting old...many no longer ride. Anyone under 45 is looking at a bike that looks cool according to today's fashion and technology and weighs far less. Kind of a hard sell for big bucks. Good luck.
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Old 09-12-20, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by IndianaMitch View Post
My friend is my friend is, once again, considering selling his Paramount. Has anything changed regarding what they are going for?
I don't know much about these bikes specifically, but Covid seems to be driving prices up in a lot of areas.
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