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Old 04-20-19, 09:11 PM
  #26  
dwgwater
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I’ve been researching. A Nitto stem won't accept the 26.4 Cinelli bars so I’d need bars and stem. The old Cinellis are so beautiful.... I got barcons etc but haven’t put them on. Campagnolo down tube shifters. Nice until I crash reaching for them. I’m torn between keeping the Holdsworthy original or ridable. Its a hand built 531 frame. Hard to improve on that at some level. I guess the frame is the soul of the bike so even with new bars and shifters it’s still the same. Sort of. Still a new something is tempting. I really appreciate all your input. The simple obvious expensive solution is to buy another bike and ride twice as much. Thanks. Dave
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Old 04-20-19, 09:18 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by John E View Post

My attitude is that anyone with money can buy fancy new stuff, but keeping a vintage bicycle or automobile in good working order and perhaps making some modifications to fit your own needs gives you something special that not just anyone can have. 1959 Capo -- very comfortable frame with relaxed geometry. 1996 Audi A4 Quattro -- classic Bauhaus-inspired clean lines, fun sports-touring sedan. 2001 VW Passat wagon -- simply the best-sized, best-configured car every designed by anyone anywhere -- a real keeper.
Agreed says the man with a Holdsworth and 1970 MG Midget and a couple early 60s HH Scott tube amplifiers. Itís a fine line between enthusiasm and mental illness.
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Old 04-20-19, 09:30 PM
  #28  
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Go test ride some bikes. Drop bar, flat bar, gravel, adventure, hybrid, whatever. Buy what makes you grin.

Don't over analyze. They are all great.
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Old 04-24-19, 01:00 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by dwgwater View Post
Iíve been researching. A Nitto stem won't accept the 26.4 Cinelli bars so Iíd need bars and stem. The old Cinellis are so beautiful.... I got barcons etc but havenít put them on. Campagnolo down tube shifters. Nice until I crash reaching for them. Iím torn between keeping the Holdsworthy original or ridable. Its a hand built 531 frame. Hard to improve on that at some level. I guess the frame is the soul of the bike so even with new bars and shifters itís still the same. Sort of. Still a new something is tempting. I really appreciate all your input. The simple obvious expensive solution is to buy another bike and ride twice as much. Thanks. Dave
Good luck, Dave. If you lived in my neck of the woods, I'd invite you over and we'd dig into my stash of parts, or might have to order a thing or two. Down to the shop and start working. Maybe a cup of coffee. We'd have your bike running to your satisfaction in a couple of hours. You've received really terrific inputs on this thread. Everything from re-vamping the Holdsworth (my preference) to buying new. Have fun with it. Phil
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Old 04-24-19, 01:33 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
Good luck, Dave. If you lived in my neck of the woods, I'd invite you over and we'd dig into my stash of parts, or might have to order a thing or two. Down to the shop and start working. Maybe a cup of coffee. We'd have your bike running to your satisfaction in a couple of hours. You've received really terrific inputs on this thread. Everything from re-vamping the Holdsworth (my preference) to buying new. Have fun with it. Phil
Ditto!

So, to @dwgwater, please fill out your member profile a bit (with location! ) so maybe one of us can help you scheme/wrench your way forward!
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Old 04-25-19, 05:10 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by dwgwater View Post
Agreed says the man with a Holdsworth and 1970 MG Midget and a couple early 60s HH Scott tube amplifiers. Itís a fine line between enthusiasm and mental illness.
Very cool. I used to have a Holdsworth (sorry I sold it) and I have a 1965 Austin Healey Sprite (identical to a Midget) in my garage. No amps, though I do have a Gibson acoustic that I bought in the 70s.
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Old 04-25-19, 05:15 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
Im a great believer in keeping a vintage bike for more relaxed rides on flat routes and having a modern "Endurance" bike for hilly routes.
Why? A vintage bike can be set up with vintage gearing that is fine for hilly routes. I have two vintage bikes set up with triples and low gears in the 20s (typically 30x32 or 30x28). I rode one of these on the Markleeville Deathride last year (135 miles and 16,000' of climbing). Sure, it'll be a tiny bit slower than a new carbon bike because it's about two water bottles heavier, but that is not discernible to most riders unless they're racing.
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Old 04-25-19, 06:57 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by davester View Post
Why? A vintage bike can be set up with vintage gearing that is fine for hilly routes. I have two vintage bikes set up with triples and low gears in the 20s (typically 30x32 or 30x28). I rode one of these on the Markleeville Deathride last year (135 miles and 16,000' of climbing). Sure, it'll be a tiny bit slower than a new carbon bike because it's about two water bottles heavier, but that is not discernible to most riders unless they're racing.
It's clear from your essay that you only consider gearing and weight as components that influence climbing performance.

I also know a few things about vintage bikes and hilly rides, see: https://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plu...dairyland.html

I've been successful at completing very hilly rides on vintage bikes, and using a triple helps. However, modern bikes have many features that improve climbing efficiency. Each contribute to performance in their own way. First, STI shifter and Ergo levers allow shifting while climbing while out of the saddle, few cyclist can accomplish this with downtube shifters. Electronic shifting provides rapid and precise shifts while climbing and the risk of over or under shifting is eliminated. There is no longer any need to trim the front derailleur while shifting across the cassette, as is required when shifting a triple.

Modern bikes are more aerodynamic. Modern bikes are stiffer. Frame flex is reduced and less power is lost. All of these factors improve the preservation of momentum. Hills do not extract the same penalty if the cyclist can apply power constantly from beginning to end without the inevitable loss of momentum while a down-tube shifter is finessed.

Last edited by Barrettscv; 04-26-19 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 04-26-19, 01:52 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by davester View Post
Why? A vintage bike can be set up with vintage gearing that is fine for hilly routes. I have two vintage bikes set up with triples and low gears in the 20s (typically 30x32 or 30x28). I rode one of these on the Markleeville Deathride last year (135 miles and 16,000' of climbing). Sure, it'll be a tiny bit slower than a new carbon bike because it's about two water bottles heavier, but that is not discernible to most riders unless they're racing.

Agreed - my heavily-updated '85 Trek is about as 'fast' as my carbon Spec. road bike. However, I don't think I'd have this opinion if the Trek still had it's original components.
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Old 04-27-19, 09:51 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by jlaw View Post
Agreed - my heavily-updated '85 Trek is about as 'fast' as my carbon Spec. road bike. However, I don't think I'd have this opinion if the Trek still had it's original components.
Up until last year, I held this opinion. Wanting the ultimate retro-roadie, I installed Ultegra 2x11 on a Eddy Merckx Extra Corsa. I assumed that a high performance drivetrain on a highly regarded vintage bike would perform nearly as well as most of the Carbon fiber bikes I see. Well, it met that threshold. It performed almost as well as my low cost carbon frame with the identical drivetrain. There was very little difference on flat sections, but hills were another matter. With each hill I was losing significant time on each Strava segment. This was of no concern while riding solo, but losing time on every hill was disrupting my group rides.

Wanting a versatile bike for damaged pavement, chip-seal and crushed limestone trials, I added a Endurance bike with disc brakes and room for 700x32 tires. I was surprised to discover that this bike was better in every way to the vintage retro-roadie.

So last year I decided to build a true grand tour bike, a bike used by Andre Greipel on mountain stages, a Ridley Helium SLX. I wanted as light as possible and went for a rim brake version with carbon wheels. I also went with SRAM eTap. This bike is clearly a superior climber to both the Eddy Merckx or the less expensive carbon bike. Unlike the mechanical shifting of my other bikes, This bike allows the freedom to shift gears while mashing the pedals while standing. I'm able to maintain optimal cadence and power output, which makes climbs faster while helping to avoid endurance robbing surges. I'm constantly smashing older segment times even though I'm actually 5 lbs heavier than in the recent past.






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Old 04-29-19, 12:39 PM
  #36  
dwgwater
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Thanks for the nice offers to help me out with the Holdsworth! I live in the SW Chicago suburbs, so dropping by for some bike wrenching doesn't seem practical, unfortunately.
I went to look at a couple Treks in the snow this weekend, and they tried to aim me away from both road bikes and hybrids and toward the so-called gravel bikes, the Checkpoint specifically. Nice bikes, but pricey to my frugal self. I'm very tempted by the Giant Fastroad SL3, which is on sale for a really nice price right now. It seems like a nice frame for my purposes. They've cut corners on the wheels and running gear, but it's roughly half the price that similar bikes go for. That would leave some cash to spiff up the old bike. Dave
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Old 04-29-19, 02:09 PM
  #37  
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I agree with the folks who say keep the vintage and get a modern endurance geometry bike. The Holdsworth is a gem, but it will need major surgery to fit a modern drive train, I think----is the rear spacing 120- or 126 mm? You could cold-set the rear triangle, if there is clearance .... and there would be if you switched to 700c wheels .... and long-arm brakes. or, you could find a vintage cluster and convert to barcons .... or even stem shifters if that thrilled you.


That gets into a fair bit of work, and frankly, down tube shifters aren't terrible, but they aren't that great----and I have enough miles on DT friction shifters to know the ins and outs. Brifters just make everything easier. Nothing wrong with riding bent over and reaching and not shifting as much and all that ... but when I want to Enjoy a ride, I have a Fuji Sportif which is comfortable , bullet proof, is equally good at flats and hills, and always a joy to ride.

Also .... upgrades can be done over time. Your Holdsworth isn't going anywhere. if you have a Fastroad or a Contend or whatever (I avoid Trek, Spec, and C'dale---too much boutique label premium---same gear on as good a frame with less decal cachet cost less, and I am also frugal) then you can be riding on the days you feel like it, and it on;'t hurt so much or be so hard ... and you can think about the Holsworth on the off days.
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Old 05-06-19, 09:15 PM
  #38  
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OP, sounds like what you really need and want is a hybrid. Just go buy one and be done with it.

If you choose to mod the old bike, convert to a threadless one inch headset and buy a CF fork or new steel fork and leave the tube untrimmed and stack it up with spacers. Once dialed in do the final trim. Much better selection of stems for these types and one inch threadless are still out there for new purchase.

Me, I am 65, never quit riding or swimming or running or lifting, I prefer my old steel racers and am fine with them As of late have an infatuation with aluminum tripe triangle GTs. I would not hesitate to purchase a new bicycle if I wanted one but I hate disc brakes and am not fond of CF and refuse to ride a "me too" Specialized, Trek or Cannondale. I go to a ride or a race event, I swear, 97% of the bicycles are one of those three brands. Give me a brake, a rim brake that is.

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Old 05-08-19, 11:10 AM
  #39  
dwgwater
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Rode the FastRoad. Hated it. Rode a Domane AL3. Found a leftover 2018 at a nice discount. Picking it up tomorrow!
Dave
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